Re: The *OFFICIAL* Cars That You Want To 'LeMonize' thread

jmitch wrote:

All I hear on here is how chevy 350's OVERHEAT. I've raced them on ovals for 20 years and never had overheating problems. Granted we usually never go over 100 laps on a half mile track and run aluminum radiators....I would think a stock four core radiator, no thermostat "guts" and a good water pump and it would be okee dokee?? What am I missing? I may just dump the Saab and start on the Camaro after CMP.....

I had a friend (now deceased) who raced SBC's in a A-H special in the 60's....including 12 hour races, without overheating. It can be done....he used  a marine water pump to reverse the flow and rigged an external coolant crossover (1/2 inch) between the heads..

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

Re: The *OFFICIAL* Cars That You Want To 'LeMonize' thread

ifb_mole wrote:

I always though that an old Camero Z28 or SS would be good cuzz a 350 can run forever and you can put some mighty fat tires on them, cut the springs a wee pit and add some camber and better brakes and you will have one fast machine

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

Talk about several types of failure.

I think Camaros are the very worst finishing of all Lemons cars.

And 350 Small Blocks are without question the worst of all possible Lemons motors, failing worse than straight and V'd sixes in Zs.

You'd be better off sticking with your three-flavored cheater Maxima and 20 laps.

"This is the scene where I get shot," Bronson said. "I have these little squibs that explode to make it look like bullets are hitting." "Fascinating," said Bergman. "I never knew how they did that." "You mean," asked Bronson, "you don't use machine guns in your movies?"

Re: The *OFFICIAL* Cars That You Want To 'LeMonize' thread

And don't forget the oiling problems 350's have.

Do they fail worst than SHO motors?

Re: The *OFFICIAL* Cars That You Want To 'LeMonize' thread

Hey I don't get it ethier, the small block chevy works just fine if you treat it right. Our 305 did just fine at nelson ledges...and we plan to race it at the next Lemons race at gingerman.

Hell I might not change the oil.

Team Sucker Punch: Winner Class B Doing Time at Joliet 2023 Autobahn ,Winner Org Choice award Were the Elite Meet to Cheat 2015
Chevy Camaro (Tiger striped #38)  (1989-2017 RIP old friend)
Chevy Corvette 1984......and still racing!

30 (edited by MurileeMartin 2009-12-05 11:07 PM)

Re: The *OFFICIAL* Cars That You Want To 'LeMonize' thread

I've been to 16 Lemons races, and I estimate that >80% of small-block Chevy V8s entered suffer some sort of failure over the course of a weekend. The SHO engine might be worse, and the Honda D and B engines have a pretty miserable Lemons record, but the SBC gets my vote for Engine Most Likely To Fail At Lemons. Not saying they're bad engines- hell, I've probably put in a couple hundred thousand street miles driving small-block-Chevy-powered vehicles and they've been totally solid for me- but they're very badly suited for this kind of abuse... or maybe the problem is that every single Chevy V8 we've seen in Lemons has been hot-rodded to hell and gone by cheatin' teams and they're blowing up due to excessive stress.

Ford Windsor engines do better, but we've seen quite a few problems with them as well. I'm going to say that 40% of Lemons 302s and 351Ws break down, usually involving chronic overheating and/or blown head gaskets. We've only seen a few Chrysler LA engines in Lemons and they've all been pretty much bulletproof (though Size Matters had something put their 360 out of action for a few hours at the last Arse Freeze), but: small sample size.

Most reliable Lemons engine? The Mazda B, Ford Modular SOHC, and Toyota R have been very solid. The Alfa Romeo V6 has done quite well, with just one Milano frying its head gaskets. We've seen a few Lemons Cadillac 4.9s- an engine legendary for general suckiness- and they've all held together all weekend.

31 (edited by X-args 2009-12-05 11:47 PM)

Re: The *OFFICIAL* Cars That You Want To 'LeMonize' thread

Hey, the 3.1/3.4 60 degree GM V6 has served us well in 9 races so far.
Altamont tractor tire induced crank print in the oil pan aside, it's been great.

You can't hod rod 'em much (not many common tuning parts like the SBC), but they've got lots of torque, and with short gearing you can drive off of corners well and win many of the short-drag-races-between-corners that used to be a Lemons staple...

They are also seriously cheap, we've been offered several Luminas/Ventures/Cavaliers for $50/come take it away.

I've got a theory on those reliable Alfas: they were MEANT to be beaten on. It's all that namby pamby driving around town and expecting good behavior in traffic that makes 'em suffer. Wailing down the autostrada is the way to keep them running crisply.

As for the 4.9, I've got no idea- those things were craptacular.
There are guys right at this moment on a Cadillac forum arguing Timesert vs. Helicoil for their terrible 4.1/4.5/4.9 headgaskets, and that is just sad.
That said, maybe because they are un-hot-roddable and have modern engine management they live to tell the tale.

Volvo PV544 (RIP) - now with Chevy 3.9 power!
2007/2012/2013 Driver's Championship (what was I thinking!?) 142 races and counting.
2/25/24

Re: The *OFFICIAL* Cars That You Want To 'LeMonize' thread

That's true, the GM 60-degree V6s have done pretty well. The 3.8s have mostly been OK, too.

Re: The *OFFICIAL* Cars That You Want To 'LeMonize' thread

I'm surprised toyota R motors are surviving.  Are you talking 20R or 22R?

Re: The *OFFICIAL* Cars That You Want To 'LeMonize' thread

MurileeMartin wrote:

That's true, the GM 60-degree V6s have done pretty well. The 3.8s have mostly been OK, too.

I've been wanting to throw my Saab 9-5 asymetrical turbo 60-degree V6 in something..  doubt it's going to fit in the Anglia

Re: The *OFFICIAL* Cars That You Want To 'LeMonize' thread

MurileeMartin wrote:

blah blah blah Breznev Doctrine blah blah Alfa ate a head gasket

It should be noted that the Milano that lost its head gasket lost it on Friday, before the race.

So, ironically, the Alfa Romeo Milano V6 might be the most reliable engine in Lemons history.

"This is the scene where I get shot," Bronson said. "I have these little squibs that explode to make it look like bullets are hitting." "Fascinating," said Bergman. "I never knew how they did that." "You mean," asked Bronson, "you don't use machine guns in your movies?"

Re: The *OFFICIAL* Cars That You Want To 'LeMonize' thread

Judge Jonny wrote:
MurileeMartin wrote:

blah blah blah Breznev Doctrine blah blah Alfa ate a head gasket

It should be noted that the Milano that lost its head gasket lost it on Friday, before the race.

So, ironically, the Alfa Romeo Milano V6 might be the most reliable engine in Lemons history.

Hey, Spiro, were you too distracted by your kickbacks from Baltimore cement contractors to appreciate the brilliance of the Brezhnev Doctrine?

When forces that are hostile to socialism try to turn the development of some socialist country towards capitalism, it becomes not only a problem of the country concerned, but a common problem and concern of all socialist countries.

Also: Why don't some of you Camaro teams swap Alfa V6s into your cars? No, seriously- they'd be way more reliable that way.

Re: The *OFFICIAL* Cars That You Want To 'LeMonize' thread

Your forgetting the German engines.
THe VW watercooled 4 cyls have done ok.. I do recall the photo of the one with the thrown rod.. But I am also thinking of CMP and how well the Jeddas did.

And the Baby six 2.5  BMW engine.  I recall one or 2 head gaskets.  I think the engines do well  its the Fuel pumps and ECUs  that fail.

EuroTrash E30 - Lemons South 08 (cooling probs) 24th /CMP  Spring 09 (fuel tank damage) one day on track 69th /Lemons South 09 (Hit by an Escort) 27th
MSR Tx, 10 2oth, no issues other than rain. /CHump Homestead Miami 10- 2nd place.

Re: The *OFFICIAL* Cars That You Want To 'LeMonize' thread

There are guys right at this moment on a Cadillac forum arguing Timesert vs. Helicoil for their terrible 4.1/4.5/4.9 headgaskets, and that is just sad.

If you're going to run a Cad, you need to step up. If any American V8 has the power and reliability to win Lemons, it's a Big Cad. Blueprinted from the factory. High-nickel content block. Iron heads. 500lb/ft of torque. I bought my last Cadillac for $100. Need more tech info? www.500cid.com

I'm really wanting to put my 472 Caddy in a LeMon.

Re: The *OFFICIAL* Cars That You Want To 'LeMonize' thread

MurileeMartin wrote:
ronman wrote:

French cars have been done. I won't be impressed til we have a 2CV and a 4CV competing in the same race for IOE against a straight-eight Pontiac.

We've just barely scratched the surface! Where are the Citroëns? The Peugeot 404s? The Renault Le Cars?

http://image.automobilemag.com/f/multimedia/photo_gallery/25810657+w1024+h768+st0/0908_16_a+2009_concours_d_lemons+1980_kV_mini_1.jpg

Yes, they've been done, but French cars are the secret to success at Lemons and the many...wait, um, RACING?!?  Mon Dieu!  No.  Stick with British Leyland.  Street-legal 4.00 x 8 tires are hard enough to find without worrying about treadwear rating.

Mike Harrell

1982 MG Metro 1300: IOE 2015 Pacific Northworst GP, Longest Distance 2010 Cd'L Box Wine Country Classic
1980 KV Mini 1: Worst of Show and Fright Pig Supremo 2009 Concours d'Lemons
1978 H Special: Second-Round Elimination 2010 Lemons Pinewood Derby at Sears Pointless
1967 SAAB 96: IOE 2012 Pacific Northworst GP, Organizer's Choice 2022 Hell on Wheels California Rally

Re: The *OFFICIAL* Cars That You Want To 'LeMonize' thread

A Gremlin, because it's such an iconic lemon. Preferably a Gremlin X; since you need a racing seat it would be a waste to use a Levi Edition.

A '63 Chrysler Newport 2-door hardtop, factory 3-speed on the floor. Preferably with a mildly cheaty 383 swapped in. I've got the theme, I've got spare parts, I've even got a website... now all I need is the car.

1960-63 Dodge Dart, 61-62 Dodge Lancer, 60-62 Plymouth Valiant, with a 225 Slant 6

Re: The *OFFICIAL* Cars That You Want To 'LeMonize' thread

MurileeMartin wrote:
ronman wrote:

French cars have been done. I won't be impressed til we have a 2CV and a 4CV competing in the same race for IOE against a straight-eight Pontiac.

We've just barely scratched the surface! Where are the Citroëns? The Peugeot 404s? The Renault Le Cars?

Here's your Peugeot 404, in case you missed my earlier post:

http://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewtopic.php?id=2594

Re: The *OFFICIAL* Cars That You Want To 'LeMonize' thread

Spank wrote:
MurileeMartin wrote:
ronman wrote:

French cars have been done. I won't be impressed til we have a 2CV and a 4CV competing in the same race for IOE against a straight-eight Pontiac.

We've just barely scratched the surface! Where are the Citroëns? The Peugeot 404s? The Renault Le Cars?

Here's your Peugeot 404, in case you missed my earlier post:

http://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewtopic.php?id=2594

My dad used to have a 404.  It wasn't quite as nice as that one, though.

43

Re: The *OFFICIAL* Cars That You Want To 'LeMonize' thread

A American Eagle would be cool to see.  Or a Volkswagon Thing.

Jer / Schumacher Taxi Service
2010 Spring CMP I.O.E. winner
2010 Sebring overall winner
1996 Miata, 1991 BMW E30, 1987 coROLLa (retired), 1984 Citation (retired), 1993 Miata (retired)

Re: The *OFFICIAL* Cars That You Want To 'LeMonize' thread

unknownroad wrote:

A Gremlin, because it's such an iconic lemon. Preferably a Gremlin X; since you need a racing seat it would be a waste to use a Levi Edition.

There was a Gremlin at MSRH in October .. the GremWow car. It, um, didn't fare well.

Summer's Eve Racing - '09 Yee-Haw; '10 Gator-O-Rama, NorDal Hooptie, Yee-Haw; '11 Gator-O-Rama, NorDal Hooptie (Winner, Class A!)
TARP Racing - '11 Yee-Haw, Heaps; '12 Gator-O-Rama (Winner, Class C ... Looking for a Class B Win to Complete the Trifecta!), Heaps; '13 NorDal Hooptie, Gator-O-Rama

Re: The *OFFICIAL* Cars That You Want To 'LeMonize' thread

72 Plymouth Duster.. Married with Children..

any year K-Car.. Must have factory equipped Rod knock..

Re: The *OFFICIAL* Cars That You Want To 'LeMonize' thread

Ender wrote:

72 Plymouth Duster.. Married with Children..

any year K-Car.. Must have factory equipped Rod knock..

I thought the car from Married with Children was a Dodge Dart.

Team Apex Vinyl: 1977 Toyota Truck
Gator-O-Rama 2009 Dangerous Banned Technology
Yee-Haw 2011 Index Of Effluency
Gator-O-Rama 2012 I Got Screwed

Re: The *OFFICIAL* Cars That You Want To 'LeMonize' thread

What about the Subaru Brat?  One of my friends in high school had one with the tailgunner seats in the bed.  It was awesome.

And you stole my idea Jer...

Dave Heinig - Schumacher Taxi Service
coROLLa - 2 time loser, RWB MR2 - 5 time loser
The Craptation - IOE WINNER! Lemons South Spring 2010
Crown Vic - Please God Don't Ever Make Me Go Through That Again

Re: The *OFFICIAL* Cars That You Want To 'LeMonize' thread

EriktheAwful wrote:

There are guys right at this moment on a Cadillac forum arguing Timesert vs. Helicoil for their terrible 4.1/4.5/4.9 headgaskets, and that is just sad.

If you're going to run a Cad, you need to step up. If any American V8 has the power and reliability to win Lemons, it's a Big Cad. Blueprinted from the factory. High-nickel content block. Iron heads. 500lb/ft of torque. I bought my last Cadillac for $100. Need more tech info? www.500cid.com

I'm really wanting to put my 472 Caddy in a LeMon.

The 4.6 northstar is what we will run in June (if of course Jay will have us).  A little bottle of headgasket fix in a bottle and it is tight as the day it came off the line.

----------------------------------------------
Team Pimpalicous
94 Cadillac Seville SLS DOA 10 Capital Offense
87 325 Convertible

Re: The *OFFICIAL* Cars That You Want To 'LeMonize' thread

A little bottle of headgasket fix in a bottle and it is tight as the day it came off the line.

Start a pool on how many laps it will last and take a low number.

Re: The *OFFICIAL* Cars That You Want To 'LeMonize' thread

EriktheAwful wrote:

A little bottle of headgasket fix in a bottle and it is tight as the day it came off the line.

Start a pool on how many laps it will last and take a low number.

We tried Blue Devil at our last race.

Initially, it looked like it worked.

Then I changed the plugs and we went out on Sunday.  It failed miserably and caused more damage along the way.

It looks like it got into the oil and made a nice mess within the block.

I wanna say someone else tried a similar nano-tech type product with poor results too.

We should just changed the head gasket.

Troy

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z