• From: Central NC
  • Registered: 2009-05-05
  • Posts: 1,681

Topic: NO EXCEPTIONS: 190 TREADWEAR

Just in case you didn't see the email Nick sent out today regarding treadwear ratings.

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We've always required 190-or-higher treadwear tires. And, as you can probably guess, we get plenty of emails asking for exceptions to that rule (as if tires were really the cure for terrible driving).

But we've recently gotten some notes about one batch Bridgestones shipping without cast-in treadwear ratings, and some Toyos that were re-classified from 140 to 200 without any change in construction. (Federal law says you can under-estimate tire life for marketing purposes; you just can't over-estimate it.)

Our tech folks are clearly instructed to only pass tires with factory-cast sidewall ratings of 190 or higher--and they're not gonna host a debate. If some drunk at Bridgestone forgot to put stamps in the molds, send 'em right back. No other documentation or stories will get them through tech.

Contact: Nick Pon, Associate Perpetrator
5675-C Horton Street, Emeryville CA 94608
nick@24hoursoflemons.com

  • From: Hayward, CA
  • Registered: 2010-03-23
  • Posts: 1,762

Re: NO EXCEPTIONS: 190 TREADWEAR

I see some theme potential here.

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?Everyone who has ever built anywhere a 'new heaven' first found the power thereto in his own hell- Frederick Nietzsche
  • From: Life's great in 21158
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 3,361

Re: NO EXCEPTIONS: 190 TREADWEAR

New rule:

Class C cars may run 200 TW tires
Class B cars must run tires of at least 300 TW
Class A cars must run these:

http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/74/13/17/95/0074131795531_500X500.jpg

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

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  • Spank
  • Utter Madman
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  • From: Escondido, CA
  • Registered: 2009-06-10
  • Posts: 5,863

Re: NO EXCEPTIONS: 190 TREADWEAR

This poses a problem for some of us:

Section 575.104 applies only to “new pneumatic tires for use on passenger cars ... [but] ... does not apply to deep tread, winter-type snow tires, space-saver or temporary use spare tires, tires with nominal rim diameters of 12 inches or less, or to limited production tires as defined in [49 CFR § 575.104(c)(2)].”

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  • Registered: 2015-10-07
  • Posts: 3

Re: NO EXCEPTIONS: 190 TREADWEAR

how are the cars classified? not sure what tire to use because have no idea what class the car is "in". (1990 bmw 535) ant help?

  • From: NH
  • Registered: 2010-01-20
  • Posts: 3,299

Re: NO EXCEPTIONS: 190 TREADWEAR

hinman16 wrote:

how are the cars classified? not sure what tire to use because have no idea what class the car is "in". (1990 bmw 535) ant help?

mechimike was joking. There is one treadwear requirement for all cars, regardless of class. Must be 190 treadwear or higher.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice
  • From: Houston,TX
  • Registered: 2013-02-12
  • Posts: 159

Re: NO EXCEPTIONS: 190 TREADWEAR

hinman16 wrote:

how are the cars classified? not sure what tire to use because have no idea what class the car is "in". (1990 bmw 535) ant help?

Class A until proven otherwise!

Tetanus Racing Toxoid!
86 E30  It ain't cheatin' if it's junk!
Work in Progress

8 Reply by NSF (edited by NSF 2015-10-15 07:39 PM)

  • NSF
  • NSF
  • Coppa di Bondo
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  • From: Cocoa, FL
  • Registered: 2010-06-26
  • Posts: 4,055

Re: NO EXCEPTIONS: 190 TREADWEAR

Can we just take the average of all four?

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  • From: Seattle-ish
  • Registered: 2011-06-16
  • Posts: 654

Re: NO EXCEPTIONS: 190 TREADWEAR

It's kinda fun to see these newbie posts about tire ratings, kill switches, and battery boxes, but then I think back to when we first dipped our toes in the Lemons pool and I was so paranoid about the rules that I was carrying around a highlighted photocopy, at every opportunity bellowing out what rule applied to the current work being performed on the new build.

That said, hinman16, don't read too much into the rules; they're kept simple for a reason.  If you learn the rules as they're written, follow them during your build (especially the part about having the cage built by a pro if you don't know what you're doing [because it's difficult as f*** to remedy a cage issue at the track]), and ask questions when the rules don't address the question you have (Evil John for sure, but to the forum in general for most issues), you'll do fine at your first tech inspection.

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  • From: Life's great in 21158
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 3,361

Re: NO EXCEPTIONS: 190 TREADWEAR

I'm chucking at the confusion my facetiousness has caused.  Sorry, though.  Yes, 190 TW, regardless of your hooptie (although I'm with Judge Phil- I think Douglas Xtra-tracks ought to be the spec tire for the series.)

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

mechimike's Website

11 Reply by BoB

  • BoB
  • BoB
  • Lemons Staff Stalker
  • Offline
  • From: Elmhurst, IL
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 4,206

Re: NO EXCEPTIONS: 190 TREADWEAR

forget douglas xtra-tracks.  Bad Decisions picked up some real special tires when they blew one out.

I think the spec should be the Nankang Noble Sport.  what better to describe Lemons than a Noble Sport

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
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  • Registered: 2015-10-07
  • Posts: 3

Re: NO EXCEPTIONS: 190 TREADWEAR

cool thanks for the info!

still don't know how the car 's are classiified?
A Class?
B class?
C class?
any help??????

  • Disco
  • Disco
  • Ripened Lemon
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  • Registered: 2014-09-28
  • Posts: 289

Re: NO EXCEPTIONS: 190 TREADWEAR

They get classed at the race.  There is no real ranking it's up to the judges.

" the only good thing hipsters have brought about is the canning of non crappy beers"
  • From: NH
  • Registered: 2010-01-20
  • Posts: 3,299

Re: NO EXCEPTIONS: 190 TREADWEAR

hinman16 wrote:

cool thanks for the info!

still don't know how the car 's are classiified?
A Class?
B class?
C class?
any help??????


It's a mystical process made up on the spot by the judges.

A more serious answer. The judges try to balance out the cars at each race. They class you based on the car, how cheaty it is, your ability as a team, etc. You mentioned a '90 5-series. That's probably A-Class. But if you show up a complete mess with zero cheaty parts and a ragged engine, maybe, B. It all depends on the judge, the race, and the team. Don't sweat it too much. Doesn't matter what class you're in, you aren't going to win your first race, so just show up, keep a good attitude, and enjoy the hell out of it.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice
  • From: Chicago-ish
  • Registered: 2010-04-19
  • Posts: 3,498

Re: NO EXCEPTIONS: 190 TREADWEAR

hinman16 wrote:

cool thanks for the info!

still don't know how the car 's are classiified?
A Class?
B class?
C class?
any help??????

The old class names are helpful a little bit:

Class A used to be called Prayer of Winning and later The Good.
Class B used to be called Prayer of Finishing and later The Bad.
Class C used to be called No Prayer of Finishing and later The Ugly.

Unless it's bigger than a 5-Series or older than an E28, almost all BMWs are in A.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

therood's Website

16 Reply by Bkg52 (edited by Bkg52 2015-10-17 10:44 AM)

  • Bkg52
  • Bkg52
  • Paddock Rat
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  • From: South Carolina
  • Registered: 2012-01-28
  • Posts: 56

Re: NO EXCEPTIONS: 190 TREADWEAR

400 treadware - original tires when the car purchased - Blacklions

https://www.facebook.com/Lemigos/photos … mp;theater

Winner, Class C (The Ugly) #40 Mock Grass Racing (1998 Kia Sephia, Columbia SC)
#55 The Four Lemigos. aka #56 Run Fordest Run -  1995 Mustang (Owner, operator, financer, sucker - self inflicted)