1 Topic by bulletpruf (edited by bulletpruf 2018-03-17 12:14 PM)

  • Registered: 2016-05-17
  • Posts: 63

Topic: Ideas for Vintage Ford or AMC Entry - Houston, San Antonio?

EDIT - I'm currently stationed in Naples, Italy, but will be moving to San Antonio on 1 July.  Have funds, tools, some fab skills.  PM me if you'd like to discuss fielding a team for the November race in Houston.

EDIT 2 - I'd also get a kick out of building an AMC.  I have a 71 Javelin road race project so I have some spare AMC bits...


Fellas -

A buddy of mine owns a race car fab shop in North Carolina.  He's interested in building a Lemons car, as long as it's a Ford or Mercury.  I'm fine with a Ford, but would prefer something vintage (early 70's or older), and would also prefer something that would be competitive.

Have done some reading/research and have a few thoughts -

-70-77 Mercury Capri - probably with 2.3L I-4 and 4 sp.  Should be about 2,200 lbs before you start taking weight out.

-65 Mustang Coupe - maybe with a 300 straight six instead of the 200 six that it came with.  Ford made zillions of these; you can still find completely roached ones for less than $500.  Looks like they're about 2,600 lbs with a six and 2,800 with a V8.

-67-70 Cougar - tough to find one under $500, but they are out there.  Would either run a straight six, maybe with a junkyard turbo, or a NA worn out 302.

EDIT - ADDED -60-63 or 64-65 Ford Falcon - the first generation (60-63's) are fairly light at about 2,400 lbs, but the 64-65 are heavier than I expected - 2,500 for 6 cylinder cars and 2,800 for V8 cars.

-My buddy has a 79 LTD 2 door (the smaller version; not the 2 ton boat) - 3,600 lbs, 302/FMX auto, 8.8.  I like that it's a full frame car, but it's still pretty darn heavy.  Also want something a bit older.

Curious to hear your input.

Thanks,

Scott

  • Registered: 2011-10-14
  • Posts: 4,167

Re: Ideas for Vintage Ford or AMC Entry - Houston, San Antonio?

'79 LTD could be considered part of the unofficial Spec Land Yatch race within a race we do in the Midwest region at least.

Whatever you choose of the older models will have its own special challenges with ready spares.  I am sure there are more of these still available in junkyards outside the rust belt but the Capri in particular will still be scarce.  Plan to travel with your spares.

The Pinto/Mustang II is donor for lot of custom independent suspension, disc brake fronts. 

Consider Ford/Mercury compact cars such as the Falcon (oddly, cheap drivers are available around here), Maverick, Comet, Pinto, Bobcat, whatever.  You keep mentioning weight and that is an important concern for consumables like fuel, brakes and tires.

As the Falcon is the Mustangs unpopular older sister, probable a lot of good suspension and brake upgrades can cross without too much trouble.

No matter what, remember the three most important parts of a newbie build:

Make it safe
Make it pass tech the first time
Have a ton of fun with it

  • Registered: 2016-05-17
  • Posts: 63

Re: Ideas for Vintage Ford or AMC Entry - Houston, San Antonio?

OnkelUdo wrote:

'79 LTD could be considered part of the unofficial Spec Land Yatch race within a race we do in the Midwest region at least.

Whatever you choose of the older models will have its own special challenges with ready spares.  I am sure there are more of these still available in junkyards outside the rust belt but the Capri in particular will still be scarce.  Plan to travel with your spares.

The Pinto/Mustang II is donor for lot of custom independent suspension, disc brake fronts. 

Consider Ford/Mercury compact cars such as the Falcon (oddly, cheap drivers are available around here), Maverick, Comet, Pinto, Bobcat, whatever.  You keep mentioning weight and that is an important concern for consumables like fuel, brakes and tires.

As the Falcon is the Mustangs unpopular older sister, probable a lot of good suspension and brake upgrades can cross without too much trouble.

No matter what, remember the three most important parts of a newbie build:

Make it safe
Make it pass tech the first time
Have a ton of fun with it

Totally forgot about the Falcon.  That's one of the other cars that we are considering.

Good point on the spares.

Agree on the weight - you don't need much brake/tire/hp on a 1,800 lb car...

Thanks for the input!

Scott

  • From: Fort Worth, TX
  • Registered: 2014-08-09
  • Posts: 9

Re: Ideas for Vintage Ford or AMC Entry - Houston, San Antonio?

I am slowly working on a 72 Comet. I have the interior gutted, and will be pulling the engine and taking it to a cage builder soon. I'll get it weighed in the gutted state on the way to the cage builder  and post the number if you would like.

It has the 200 ci I6. The plan is to get a race or two in on that engine, and then evaluate a swap.

Simplicate and add lightness.
  • Registered: 2016-05-17
  • Posts: 63

Re: Ideas for Vintage Ford or AMC Entry - Houston, San Antonio?

Jonoton wrote:

I am slowly working on a 72 Comet. I have the interior gutted, and will be pulling the engine and taking it to a cage builder soon. I'll get it weighed in the gutted state on the way to the cage builder  and post the number if you would like.

It has the 200 ci I6. The plan is to get a race or two in on that engine, and then evaluate a swap.

I would be curious to hear the weight.

Is it an automatic or manual (3 sp?) trans?

8" rear?

Anything planned for the suspension?

Scott

  • From: Fort Worth, TX
  • Registered: 2014-08-09
  • Posts: 9

Re: Ideas for Vintage Ford or AMC Entry - Houston, San Antonio?

It is an auto, 8" rear end. Factory A/C as well, but that will be removed.
I have an 8.8 w/ disc brakes from a 90s mustang I plan to put in. I'll also be replacing the front brakes with discs. I don't know just a whole lot about auto mechanics, and have limited free time,  so it is a slow process.

Simplicate and add lightness.
  • From: KSAV
  • Registered: 2011-12-19
  • Posts: 180

Re: Ideas for Vintage Ford or AMC Entry - Houston, San Antonio?

We run a 1964 Ford Fairlane. With all the glass removed, Lexan windshield, front disc conversion, 289, C4 and 2" roll cage, we weighed in at 3030. Since then we've gone to bigger brakes, a 302, and a 3-speed toploader, and we're still under 3100.

Team Fairlylame
HumidiTT '14 IOE Winner
  • Registered: 2016-05-17
  • Posts: 63

Re: Ideas for Vintage Ford or AMC Entry - Houston, San Antonio?

ballpeen wrote:

We run a 1964 Ford Fairlane. With all the glass removed, Lexan windshield, front disc conversion, 289, C4 and 2" roll cage, we weighed in at 3030. Since then we've gone to bigger brakes, a 302, and a 3-speed toploader, and we're still under 3100.

Love it!  Fairlanes are my first love.  Currently have a 66 GT convertible with 428, 4 sp, 3.25 9".

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/66%20Fairlane%20Convt/DSCN0270_zpsvsptfuof.jpg

Thanks for the details.

Scott

  • From: Chicago-ish
  • Registered: 2010-04-19
  • Posts: 3,500

Re: Ideas for Vintage Ford or AMC Entry - Houston, San Antonio?

Lemons needs a  1959-1960 Comet.

http://www.grangerlandrfd.com/uploads/1/7/1/2/17120114/9717548_orig.jpg?440

Also: I need a 1959-1960 Comet.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

therood's Website

  • From: Chicago-ish
  • Registered: 2010-04-19
  • Posts: 3,500

Re: Ideas for Vintage Ford or AMC Entry - Houston, San Antonio?

That's a later one, I guess, above. But think about how glorious this shape would be on a racetrack.

http://oldcarandtruckpictures.com/Ford/1960_Mercury_Comet-mar30b.jpg

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

therood's Website

  • From: Villa Park, IL
  • Registered: 2010-12-12
  • Posts: 1,338

Re: Ideas for Vintage Ford or AMC Entry - Houston, San Antonio?

therood wrote:

That's a later one, I guess, above. But think about how glorious this shape would be on a racetrack.

http://oldcarandtruckpictures.com/Ford/1960_Mercury_Comet-mar30b.jpg

I want one of those to race against the Rambler. How epic would that be?

Newest member - White Trash Racing
Owner of the Traveling Hat
  • From: Life's great in 21158
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 3,361

Re: Ideas for Vintage Ford or AMC Entry - Houston, San Antonio?

Go big or go home.

http://www.murileemartin.com/UG/LSD16/111-_MG_8485.jpg

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

mechimike's Website

  • From: Buxton NC or Truckee CA
  • Registered: 2013-03-25
  • Posts: 836

Re: Ideas for Vintage Ford or AMC Entry - Houston, San Antonio?

I had a 62 Comet with a 289 and 3 speed toploader swapped in. With 8 gallons of gas, 140lbs of hyatt and whatever my golf clubs weight it weighed 2750. It was pretty much in Lemons condition by the time I was done ruining it. It's a cool body that's mechanically a Falcon(mustang!) so go fast and handle well parts do exist.

Planet Express
"IOE" "C Win" 4834.701 Race Miles and counting
Toyocedes
"Least Southern Pickup Truck" "IOE" "C win" "C win (again?)"
  • Mr.Yuck
  • Mr.Yuck
  • Lemons Staff Stalker
  • Offline
  • From: Brookeville, Md.
  • Registered: 2013-12-09
  • Posts: 1,012

Re: Ideas for Vintage Ford or AMC Entry - Houston, San Antonio?

I'd do a Torino (or fairlane fastback) 68-72 BUT late 70's Zephyrs and Fairmonts are Fox body's so parts would be plentiful and cheap.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"
  • From: Land Of Subarus, Colorado
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 9,416

Re: Ideas for Vintage Ford or AMC Entry - Houston, San Antonio?

I daily-drove late-60s fastback Torinos and Cyclones in my late teens/early 20s, so I'd love to see one in Lemons.

Murilee Martin aka Judge Phil on Facebook
Murilee Martin on Twitter
Judge Phil's Lemons posts on Car and Driver
MurileeMartin.com

Judge Phil's Website

  • Registered: 2011-02-22
  • Posts: 934

Re: Ideas for Vintage Ford or AMC Entry - Houston, San Antonio?

how about a heap with one of the most copied front suspensions on the planet

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7791/26476712844_7e3bfbb042_m.jpgmustang II

  • Registered: 2009-11-16
  • Posts: 81

Re: Ideas for Vintage Ford or AMC Entry - Houston, San Antonio?

Be a man.


Maverick Grabber

  • From: Land Of Subarus, Colorado
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 9,416

Re: Ideas for Vintage Ford or AMC Entry - Houston, San Antonio?

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/thebiglebowski/images/9/93/I004920.jpg

If you did a perfect replica of The Dude's Torino, we'd be less likely to notice a nice engine.

Murilee Martin aka Judge Phil on Facebook
Murilee Martin on Twitter
Judge Phil's Lemons posts on Car and Driver
MurileeMartin.com

Judge Phil's Website

19 Reply by -SDR- (edited by -SDR- 2016-05-17 09:09 PM)

  • -SDR-
  • Ripened Lemon
  • Offline
  • From: CT
  • Registered: 2015-10-06
  • Posts: 282

Re: Ideas for Vintage Ford or AMC Entry - Houston, San Antonio?

rodknox2 wrote:

how about a heap with one of the most copied front suspensions on the planet

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7791/26476712844_7e3bfbb042_m.jpgmustang II

Please note that there is no such thing as a "Mustang II Front End", as Ford used a PINTO front end in the Mustang II.

I love to tell street-rodders that detail at car shows if the claim they have M-2 stuff in their car; really torques them up.  To be fair, I tell all the Fox body Stang owners that they have Fairmont, and I make the Falcon comment to early Stang owners.....

That said, go Pinto!!

Parts everywhere, and they made millions of them!!  Of course, you need to deal with a good amount of morons that think they are "rare" and made of gold.  Yes, some parts are getting hard to find, but none that you will ever need for the race.  You can sell me parts that you don't need!!!!



Bill

2020 I.O.E. CT #36 The Rootes Of All Evil,1958 Sunbeam Rapier Convertible (YES 1958!!) & 2019 Judges Choice NJMP
2016 Thompson Speedway #36 Sabrina Duncan's Revenge, IOE Trophy, 5th Place 'C' Class 1977 Ford Pinto
2009 Stafford Motor Speedway #16 Team Teflon, 11th Place (overall) 1997 Saturn SL2
  • Registered: 2016-05-17
  • Posts: 63

Re: Ideas for Vintage Ford or AMC Entry - Houston, San Antonio?

therood wrote:

That's a later one, I guess, above. But think about how glorious this shape would be on a racetrack.

http://oldcarandtruckpictures.com/Ford/1960_Mercury_Comet-mar30b.jpg

Beauty!  Reasonably light at 2,500 lbs or so.  Would worry about parts availability but still worth checking out if I run across one.

Thanks

Scott

  • Registered: 2016-05-17
  • Posts: 63

Re: Ideas for Vintage Ford or AMC Entry - Houston, San Antonio?

mechimike wrote:

Go big or go home.

http://www.murileemartin.com/UG/LSD16/111-_MG_8485.jpg


Looks like 2 tons of fun!  I'm an LSU grad, so I can really appreciate the purple and gold paint scheme, too!  Guessing it has a 460 in it; I'm quite familiar with those -- had Fairlanes with a 429 and a 514.

Anyway, I'd love to do something like that at some point, but want to start out with something a tad (read: a LOT) lighter.

Thanks

Scott

  • Registered: 2016-05-17
  • Posts: 63

Re: Ideas for Vintage Ford or AMC Entry - Houston, San Antonio?

FPRbuzz wrote:

I had a 62 Comet with a 289 and 3 speed toploader swapped in. With 8 gallons of gas, 140lbs of hyatt and whatever my golf clubs weight it weighed 2750. It was pretty much in Lemons condition by the time I was done ruining it. It's a cool body that's mechanically a Falcon(mustang!) so go fast and handle well parts do exist.

That would definitely work - nice looking cars.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercury-Comet-C … 1999904383

  • Registered: 2016-05-17
  • Posts: 63

Re: Ideas for Vintage Ford or AMC Entry - Houston, San Antonio?

Mr.Yuck wrote:

I'd do a Torino (or fairlane fastback) 68-72 BUT late 70's Zephyrs and Fairmonts are Fox body's so parts would be plentiful and cheap.

Love the Torino and Fairlane fastbacks; at about 3,300 lbs, that's not bad, but still a lot heavier than I would prefer.

On a related note, I had a 69 Cobra (Fairlane fastback with 428 CJ) parts car many moons ago.  Tree fell on it, but otherwise complete.  Had shift on the column C6, bench seat, and a 3.25 peg leg rear.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/69%20Cobra/100_8446.jpg

  • Registered: 2016-05-17
  • Posts: 63

Re: Ideas for Vintage Ford or AMC Entry - Houston, San Antonio?

rodknox2 wrote:

how about a heap with one of the most copied front suspensions on the planet

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7791/26476712844_7e3bfbb042_m.jpgmustang II

I would rock one of those fugly cars.  Just don't see them for sale that much anymore.

Something like this would be a great start if you could get it cheaper - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Mustang-Ki … 1765191809

25 Reply by bulletpruf (edited by bulletpruf 2016-05-17 10:33 PM)

  • Registered: 2016-05-17
  • Posts: 63

Re: Ideas for Vintage Ford or AMC Entry - Houston, San Antonio?

-SDR- wrote:
rodknox2 wrote:

how about a heap with one of the most copied front suspensions on the planet

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7791/26476712844_7e3bfbb042_m.jpgmustang II

Please note that there is no such thing as a "Mustang II Front End", as Ford used a PINTO front end in the Mustang II.

I love to tell street-rodders that detail at car shows if the claim they have M-2 stuff in their car; really torques them up.  To be fair, I tell all the Fox body Stang owners that they have Fairmont, and I make the Falcon comment to early Stang owners.....

That said, go Pinto!!

Parts everywhere, and they made millions of them!!  Of course, you need to deal with a good amount of morons that think they are "rare" and made of gold.  Yes, some parts are getting hard to find, but none that you will ever need for the race.  You can sell me parts that you don't need!!!!

Bill

A Pinto would work...here's one - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-pinto-hatc … 1995833405

And a great quote from the ad, "1980 ford pinto I bought this last year WITH INTENTIONS OF RESTORING..." (emphasis added).