• Mulry
  • Mulry
  • Ayatollah of Rock-n-Rollah
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  • From: Dallas, TX
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 4,607

Re: Common Tech Failures. UPDATED W/PIX

You're not necessarily reading the ads wrong, the 2 pole kill switches typically only kill the battery to engine circuit. Many types of racers do not need to run an alternator because their races are short enough that they can run just off a battery. However, that's not true for endurance racing.

There are a litany of ways to make a 2 pole kill switch work to kill both the battery and the ignition circuit -- which is what the rules state -- but make it easy on yourself and just get a 4-pole kill switch. It's a lot easier to figure out and wire for a first-timer than a kludgy solution for a 2-pole switch. Bear in mind that the test at tech for your kill switch is that they will ask you to start your car and run it up to about 3k revs, then they flip the switch. If the car doesn't shut off instantly, you fail. Cheers and good luck!

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.
  • From: Foster City, CA
  • Registered: 2010-05-09
  • Posts: 406

Re: Common Tech Failures. UPDATED W/PIX

Ours wasn't cheap. But probably cheaper than a new alternator.

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/produ … RecID=1464

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  • From: Aumsville, Oregon (Near Salem)
  • Registered: 2010-08-22
  • Posts: 1,913

Re: Common Tech Failures. UPDATED W/PIX

My car is so old that it doesn't have an alternator -- it has a generator.   Does it need the same disconnect switch wiring that an alternator needs?

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  • From: Frisco, Texas
  • Registered: 2009-05-02
  • Posts: 1,430

Re: Common Tech Failures. UPDATED W/PIX

chicagozer wrote:

Ours wasn't cheap. But probably cheaper than a new alternator.

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/produ … RecID=1464

+1

For some reason I struggled to wire things, but its not really that difficult once you figure out what wires you need. I also ran the ecu power to the switch too which kills the fuel pump and everything else so there's NO chance of it continuing to run.

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  • From: New Jersey
  • Registered: 2011-08-09
  • Posts: 46

Re: Common Tech Failures. UPDATED W/PIX

Just a question on the cage welds issue. All the pictures I've seen have no grinding to clean up the welds. Is that the recommended way to do it-just leave them they way they got welded with no dressing them up?

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Do the best you can with what you have. If someone else has what you want beat them up and take it. Can't do that? Don't know what to tell you.
  • From: New Jersey
  • Registered: 2011-08-09
  • Posts: 46

Re: Common Tech Failures. UPDATED W/PIX

In another post there are these diagrams on how to wire your kill switch so you don't fry your ECU. There's another link for a kill switch from Pegasus that has two more terminals and a different way to wire it up. Does anyone know if a regular 4 pole switch wired per the "right" diagram is any better, worse or just as good as the Pegasus switch?

Here's the skinny:

WRONG (Kills your alternator)
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5300/546 … abb1_z.jpg

REALLY WRONG (Kills your ECU and pretty much everything else)
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5015/546 … 1ff5_z.jpg

RIGHT
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5020/546 … bc4a_z.jpg

The correct wiring will allow the field from the alternator to discharge into the battery instead of into your ECU.  You need a fusible link near the battery on the alternator line to protect the cabling in case of a short.



https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/produ … RecID=1464

Jalopyshoppe wrote:
Do the best you can with what you have. If someone else has what you want beat them up and take it. Can't do that? Don't know what to tell you.
  • From: Houston (Spring) Texas
  • Registered: 2010-02-22
  • Posts: 1,624

Re: Common Tech Failures. UPDATED W/PIX

link fail...
and dont grind the cage because it causes thin points in the tube that will buckle under load.
you shouldn't have to grind the weld if it is done correctly with a TIG or MIG. If you Stick, buy a needle scaler. Above all else, DO NOT use flux core.

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Hoonatic Racing's Website

  • From: Davis, Ca
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 1,843

Re: Common Tech Failures. UPDATED W/PIX

Never grind a weld on a cage.

Gosh, my business card says 'Tech Tyrant'
  • Registered: 2009-05-19
  • Posts: 190

Re: Common Tech Failures. UPDATED W/PIX

Take it from a new comer. Show up with a DOM cage designed and welded properly. Pay attention to details of padding, wiring, seat mounting, belt mounting, in our case fuel cell installation (A REAL FUEL CELL)  and fire ext. mounting. Evil Genius commented that either we read the rules or new what we were doing. Tech was a breeze. We did all the welding and build ourselves under a shade tree drinking beer.  Its not that hard or complicated just study the rules and go to a Lemons race and look at how other cars are prepared. If yours looks different you will probally fail!

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  • Registered: 2011-07-15
  • Posts: 131

Re: Common Tech Failures. UPDATED W/PIX

which judge / tech guy will be at Charlotte ?? What is his / there Email address ??

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  • From: San Diego, CA
  • Registered: 2011-11-26
  • Posts: 596

Re: Common Tech Failures. UPDATED W/PIX

Curious..

At the first race of the season with new rules (weld in cages, kill switch position) were there any new borderline pass/fail issues?

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  • From: Houston, TX
  • Registered: 2009-10-06
  • Posts: 1,008

Re: Common Tech Failures. UPDATED W/PIX

Not so much. The Texas bunch is pretty well seasoned and knowledgable. A couple of newbies had problems, but that's cause their cage still was largely exterior to the car when they showed up. Then again, I was engrossed in registration and gear tech most of the time. The Hoonatic would know better.

I'm the doctor who is a wife. Which makes the grease hard to explain to my patients... www.tetanusneon.com.

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  • From: Houston (Spring) Texas
  • Registered: 2010-02-22
  • Posts: 1,624

Re: Common Tech Failures. UPDATED W/PIX

there were three or four cages that gave me the willies, but Jay let them race with minimal modification and a promise to do more before the next race. Clearly he is the one paying the insurance, cause I would have made them re-do it.
there were 2 kill switches that needed attention: one didn't kill the car, and the other was on a rental that hadn't been raced in 2 years, so it needed to be moved from the trans tunnel to the a-pillar.

Yee-Haw 2010 "Most Heroic Fix" & "I Got Screwed" -2 trophies for 1 lap, but I took checkered on my lap.
Gator-O-Rama 2012 "Organizers Choice" -2 laps 1 trophy, but i still finished ahead of an E30
Yee-Haw 2013 No trophy -26 laps, I think I see a pattern here
Gator-O-Rama 2014 "Waiting for the Last Minute Call from the Governor Award" -who's counting? John

Hoonatic Racing's Website

  • From: Pittsburgh, PA 15147
  • Registered: 2012-01-05
  • Posts: 226

Re: Common Tech Failures. UPDATED W/PIX

So is it 100% that you have to have a continuous down bar on the main hoop? We've got a solid horizontal...

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  • DC Doug
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  • From: Washington DC / SF Bay area
  • Registered: 2010-09-27
  • Posts: 2,856

Re: Common Tech Failures. UPDATED W/PIX

No, it is not.  See the 'how not to fail tech' sticky.  It is 'preferred' that the diagonal bar be continuous, but it is not mandatory.  Plenty of Lemons cars with solid horizontal bars.

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  • From: Pittsburgh, PA 15147
  • Registered: 2012-01-05
  • Posts: 226

Re: Common Tech Failures. UPDATED W/PIX

I figured if it's ok for NASA and SCCA... lol

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  • From: Houston, TX
  • Registered: 2009-10-06
  • Posts: 1,008

Re: Common Tech Failures. UPDATED W/PIX

scottyd wrote:

I figured if it's ok for NASA and SCCA... lol

Oh oh oh - never, ever assume that "because it's ok in series X it's okay in Lemons." With NASA and SCCA it is likely that whatever safety spec applies to Lemons, but I can't tell you how many times I've seen assumptions lead to tech failures. READ THE RULES!

I'm the doctor who is a wife. Which makes the grease hard to explain to my patients... www.tetanusneon.com.

Dr. Wife's Website

  • From: Pittsburgh, PA 15147
  • Registered: 2012-01-05
  • Posts: 226

Re: Common Tech Failures. UPDATED W/PIX

Dr. Wife wrote:
scottyd wrote:

I figured if it's ok for NASA and SCCA... lol

Oh oh oh - never, ever assume that "because it's ok in series X it's okay in Lemons." With NASA and SCCA it is likely that whatever safety spec applies to Lemons, but I can't tell you how many times I've seen assumptions lead to tech failures. READ THE RULES!

I think you missed the joke wink

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'11 Volvo XC90 V8 - Wife's, V8 go Vroom
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  • Registered: 2012-08-22
  • Posts: 32

Re: Common Tech Failures. UPDATED W/PIX

This is great, i learned a lot.

If possible, could you take some pictures of cars that were built correctly for comparison?

Seeing both sides really makes it easier to see what we have to do. 

thanks

Lemons newbie

  • RobL
  • RobL
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  • From: Philly area
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 2,721

Re: Common Tech Failures. UPDATED W/PIX

BigJoe, what are you looking for?  General cage, spreader plates, fuel cell...

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  • From: Vancouver, WA
  • Registered: 2009-11-24
  • Posts: 934

Re: Common Tech Failures. UPDATED W/PIX

Well, if you haven't read this, do it:

http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/usercont … /Handbook/

Lorin Mueller
Scuderia Asino formerly Team Haulin' Ass - 83 Plymouth Scamp
Team Soccer Moms - 93 Dodge Caravan
  • tSoG
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  • From: the Hill, PA
  • Registered: 2011-06-10
  • Posts: 2,100

Re: Common Tech Failures. UPDATED W/PIX

spreader plates? I found an "approved" kit for my next project, but I'm not sure if the spreader plates will be acceptable as such.
are these acceptable?

This is the front footer, with a nifty little extra reinforcement.
http://www.miatacage.com/images/thumbs/0000172.jpeg
Main hoop has perch and floor plate
http://www.miatacage.com/images/thumbs/0000177.jpeg

Another question involves sunroof/convertible tops.

3.20: No Open Sunroofs: All sunroof openings must be covered by either the original sunroof panel; a new panel securely fixed into place; or securely fixed mesh with openings no larger than 1/2-inch each.
3.21: Open T-Tops and Convertibles: Arm restraints are required when driving an open T-Top or convertible.

I'm not trying specifically to avoid arm restraints, but I want to find out if a homemade removable hardtop, made from fiberglass, and a lexan rear window, or louvers to maintain reward visibility would acceptably cover "new panel securely fixed into place" It will utilize the factory convertible latches on the front, and either the trunk latching mechanism in the rear, or the removable hardtop mounts in the rear.

It's more of a theme/comfort related need than safety, because arm restraints are still on the agenda, but I want to make sure the idea is acceptable before spending too much time on it. if there is absolutely nothing I can do to make a fiberglass hardtop pass tech, then I won't bother trying.

dead rabbit society: cultured 'n shit.
  • From: Elburn, IL
  • Registered: 2010-12-16
  • Posts: 3,425

Re: Common Tech Failures. UPDATED W/PIX

I believe the Tetanus Racing 944 has a plain steel patch panel over the sunroof.  I say this because it had a nice rust 'patina' on the whole thing.

Would that work with your theme?

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  • tSoG
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  • From: the Hill, PA
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Re: Common Tech Failures. UPDATED W/PIX

fiberglass would be easier for what I have in mind.

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  • Mulry
  • Mulry
  • Ayatollah of Rock-n-Rollah
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  • From: Dallas, TX
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 4,607

Re: Common Tech Failures. UPDATED W/PIX

I think that would be sufficient. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that Pete was using a "roof" that was comprised mainly of duct tape. Of course, I don't know if he was using arm restraints or not.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.