126

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

1johnlane wrote:

Run it at Buttonwillow because it's the flattest track and there is a Level 3 CHAdeMO DC "Quick/Fast Charging" Charger at the Days Inn Lost Hills 15 minutes away off the 5. See at plugshare.com

And it's only a 2,700 mile tow for a team from NC!

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

The west coast has chargers everywhere. I was in the middle of nowhere between Phoenix and Yuma and there were 8 Tesla superchargers at the Carl's Jr where I stopped for lunch.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

rmcdaniels wrote:

That phallic coupler would be perfect, but I'm guessing that there is no chance of Jay approving that plan.

Tis better to ask forgiveness than permission.  I should think that you've learned that throughout the course of this EV project.

The electro-magnet grabber thing sounds cool.  Unfortunately I think that might require an upgrade to the stock, 40-year old Ford alternator in our LTD.  It barely generates enough juice to run the ignition coil and brake light.  Hence why we run a gigantic L-A 12V battery, and trickle charge it every night.

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

mechimike wrote:
rmcdaniels wrote:

That phallic coupler would be perfect, but I'm guessing that there is no chance of Jay approving that plan.

Tis better to ask forgiveness than permission.  I should think that you've learned that throughout the course of this EV project.

The electro-magnet grabber thing sounds cool.  Unfortunately I think that might require an upgrade to the stock, 40-year old Ford alternator in our LTD.  It barely generates enough juice to run the ignition coil and brake light.  Hence why we run a gigantic L-A 12V battery, and trickle charge it every night.

An electromagnetic door lock that produces 1200lbs of force pulls less than 1 amp. You can run them as gags of a 9v battery. Powering the magnet shouldn't be a problem.

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

I like this idea.  There's tons of metal on the LTD the magnet could hook onto.  Perhaps put the magnet on a tether/ winch, so space could be kept between the 2 cars to allow for cornering.  Obviously, when in tow the laps would have to be taken at less than 10/10ths, but this seems pretty doable. 

E-car pulls up behind LTD, activates magnet.  Magnet attaches to LTD.  E-car releases tether so magnet pulls out ~5 feet on a cable.  E-car activates regen.  LTD pulls E-car around track for a lap or two to charge batteries.  When charged, LTD coasts, E-car accelerates up to LTD as winch draws in magnet.  E-car releases magnet, LTD zooms off. 

It couldn't be simpler.

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

Sonic wrote:

Here is an electric 97 S10 on govdeals in GA


https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=M … cctid=1422

I registered and bid on that, but was outbid.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

mechimike wrote:

I like this idea.  There's tons of metal on the LTD the magnet could hook onto.  Perhaps put the magnet on a tether/ winch, so space could be kept between the 2 cars to allow for cornering.  Obviously, when in tow the laps would have to be taken at less than 10/10ths, but this seems pretty doable. 

E-car pulls up behind LTD, activates magnet.  Magnet attaches to LTD.  E-car releases tether so magnet pulls out ~5 feet on a cable.  E-car activates regen.  LTD pulls E-car around track for a lap or two to charge batteries.  When charged, LTD coasts, E-car accelerates up to LTD as winch draws in magnet.  E-car releases magnet, LTD zooms off. 

It couldn't be simpler.

When you put it that way, it sounds almost reasonable. I still think that I'd mount the metal plate on a hitch on the LTD. These run on 12v DC and are cheap:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-Magnet … SwLF1X-13A

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

133 (edited by mechimike 2017-03-23 08:24 AM)

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

rmcdaniels wrote:
mechimike wrote:

I like this idea.  There's tons of metal on the LTD the magnet could hook onto.  Perhaps put the magnet on a tether/ winch, so space could be kept between the 2 cars to allow for cornering.  Obviously, when in tow the laps would have to be taken at less than 10/10ths, but this seems pretty doable. 

E-car pulls up behind LTD, activates magnet.  Magnet attaches to LTD.  E-car releases tether so magnet pulls out ~5 feet on a cable.  E-car activates regen.  LTD pulls E-car around track for a lap or two to charge batteries.  When charged, LTD coasts, E-car accelerates up to LTD as winch draws in magnet.  E-car releases magnet, LTD zooms off. 

It couldn't be simpler.

When you put it that way, it sounds almost reasonable. I still think that I'd mount the metal plate on a hitch on the LTD. These run on 12v DC and are cheap:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-Magnet … SwLF1X-13A

My concern with that metal plate is it's so small- the driver of the E-car would have to get it aligned pretty well.  We still have a huge, flat, metal chrome bumper (OEM) on the back.  If you mounted the e-magnet on the E-car at our bumper's height, you'd have the full width of our metal bumper to attach to.  I can get you measurement of the bottom and top of the bumper (from ground level) on race tires if you'd like.

If we successfully pull off this maneuver even once during the race, I bet they'd resurrect the "Banned Technology Award" and give it to you.

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

I just don't know how well it would adhere to the bumper. I'm guessing that the surface has to be perfectly flat for it to work right.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

To make this work you will need to minimize shear on the magnet. It will have good holding power but you will be able to shear it off its plate.

What I picture working is two 1200lb locks mounted together. This will give you a package that is more or less square. On the target side you'll need to use a piece of 1/4" steel plate to develop the full holding power of the magnet. Along the edge of the plate you would attach some tapered guides to allow the electromagnets to hit the plate square. Once attached those guides will prevent the magnets from sliding off the plate.

You can buy locks that have a sensor so they don't energize until they touch the target. That may be a benefit in case you don't get a square touch on the lock against the target.

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

rmcdaniels wrote:

I just don't know how well it would adhere to the bumper. I'm guessing that the surface has to be perfectly flat for it to work right.

100% correct. this will only work if the gap between the target and the magnet is small. Any space or areas where there isn't target material will increase magnet current and reduce holding power.

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

I'm thinking a flat steel plate mounted to the back of the LTD. Put a ball on the back of the LTD and mount the plate on a shortened (so it doesn't stick out three feet behind the LTD) tow bar that's already attached to the ball:

http://www.harborfreight.com/5000-lb-ca … 61625.html

Then it's already set up to swivel and we don't have to hack up the LTD or Sparky. Put the magnet on the other end of the shortened tow bar on Sparky. We already have a tow bar and attachment points on Sparky, so that part is easy. Keep it just long enough that our bumpers don't hit while cornering. I'll hack up the tow bar to make the two pieces. I'm assuming that someone makes a receiver hitch kit for the LTD. I can send one to the Tunachuckers and they can bolt it on or we'll do it at CMP.

I can see no way in which this plan can possibly fail.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

Please mount a camera on the front to get the hookup action!

139 (edited by mechimike 2017-03-23 11:08 AM)

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

I have seen a receiver thingie that just bolts to the underside of the bumper.  That should be strong enough for this application.  I use one to mount my winch on my trailer so I can easily remove the winch when not in use, and I've used it to winch the LTD up onto the trailer with. 

I can mount one of these dealies on the LTD, and then whatever receiver thing needs to go into it.

Like one of these:

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ … wAodepgBHQ

or

https://www.zoro.com/buyers-products-bo … lsrc=aw.ds

With that tow bar thing sticking out the back, hooked onto the ball, it'll need something to hold it up so it doesn't drag on the ground.  Possibly some sort of vertical spring?

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

The bolt-on receiver looks fine. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that it won't be the weak link in this plan.

Some bungee cords should hold it up.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

Let me know if this plan's a go. I can gget the measurement from top of ground to the bottom of the bumper where this will bolt to. I see no fail in any of this.

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

I'd like to do it, just to see if it would work. I'll rig up the hardware if you put a receiver on the LTD and we can see if it works. I'm going to say try it off track to see if it's feasible. I'm reasonably sure that performing the first Lemons on-track mid-race refueling maneuver is something that would need to be run by the event organizers and subjected to management analysis before trying it on a hot track.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

OK, I'll get the measurement from ground to the bottom of the rear bumper so you can figure out placement of everything and maybe draw up a sketch.  I would guess your tow bar attachment isn't far off vertically from the bottom of the LTD's bumper. 

Definitely will have to do a dry run in the paddock.  Would make a great stunt for BS inspection, too.  I'll discuss with the team.  We can get a receiver (that bottom mount one looks like it'll work) drill some holes and mount it.  That part will be easy. 

We should calculate how much energy you're taking from the LTD to charge the batteries, estimating efficiency of the big block engine, to come up with a mpg-e for Sparky when under tow-charge.  I want to see how it compares to the efficiency of the charging setup.

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

I'd love to roll through tech and BS on that rig.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

this entire plan is on the fast track to AWESOME. keep up the good work!

"THE WONDERMENT CONSORTIUM"
Everything dies baby that's a fact,
But maybe everything that dies someday comes back?

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

14" from ground to bottom of license plate area on bumper. 15.5" for the rest of the bumper bottom to the ground. The area under the license plat it a little *ehem* swiss-cheesy, so we might need to mount the receiver dealie off- center slightly.

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

Holy crap, I think that I just figured out batteries and charging.

I was putting together some spreadsheets to figure out how many batteries/chargers/generators we would need for the September CMP race and the numbers were getting ridiculous. It's hard to scope because part of the time the chargers are using 100% of the generator and part of the time they are using 5% of the generator.

So I calculated only charging the batteries using the CA part of the charge cycle, which uses 100% of the generator power. That takes about an hour and gets the batteries to 80% charged.

80% charge would let us turn 10 laps per battery set instead of 12 laps, so the spreadsheet for what we currently have looks like this:

http://www.carolinahondas.com/members/roger-albums-stuff-picture6643-charging8.jpg

That's over 50 laps more that we would do if we charged them to 100%. If we can do 200 laps at CMP in a few weeks, then the world will probably end right there.

Now add just one set of chargers and:

http://www.carolinahondas.com/members/roger-albums-stuff-picture6644-charging9.jpg

That's 300+ laps and no breaks to charge batteries, just a quick stop every 25 minutes to swap out the battery pack, which took me less than 5 minutes to do by myself the first time that I tried it. With three guys working the swap, I bet we can get it to half that.

That requires one more set of chargers and two cheap Sam's Club generators. That is pretty feasible without killing ourselves or blowing the budget.

I'm getting a really good feeling about this.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

If you could maximize the battery capacity in the car, you could also maybe cut 1 or 2 battery swaps in the day. Should also greatly bump you up.
If I recall, it was mentioned that it be possible to do that. Just got to watch out not to get below the constant current charge cycle, it be trickle charging below that point till you get to CA again, which sucks sad

https://www.facebook.com/greatglobsofoil/
This car....Is said to have a will of it's Own. Twisting its own body in rage...It accelerates on.
1978 Opel/Buick Isuzu(C>B>C>B) , 1996 Nissan Maxima OnlyFans (B) , Sold 1996 Ford Probe GT(B),

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

I think you are on to something there. Bulk charge them and get back out there. Saturday night you can top them up and balance the cells for Sunday.

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

Actually that's right, the first three sessions on each day would be 12 laps because the batteries would be fully charged.

I may make a 4-battery pack later, but if we can get away with using the current number of batteries, then I'd prefer to stick to three packs of three batteries.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!