Topic: Yellow flags and passing

What the fudge was up with all the passing under yellow at NJ? I'm not even talking about rookie teams either. Why were people passing people, including some podium types under yellow/white while the service trucks were in sight. that is ridiculous. with 130+ cars on the track you are going to pass people while the tow vehicles (with car in tow) are right in front of you? Come on....

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Yellow flags and passing

Worse yet were guys who saw a yellow flag and locked up their brakes!  I know it's been said before but this time it caused our guy who was following to do the same and swerve sending us into a wall.  The guys on my team who did pass on yellow (2 of the 14) are getting a lot of crap from me and will have something stupid to help them remember to look at the stands.  It's just about inexcusable to not see yellow flags and just as inexcusable to stand on your brakes when you do.

BTW Mr. Yuck, I was out Sunday afternoon, 2ish and enjoyed seeing and racing with you guys.  Would have stopped by to visit if I didn't spend the day straightening our car.

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Re: Yellow flags and passing

meyers0150 wrote:

Worse yet were guys who saw a yellow flag and locked up their brakes!  I know it's been said before but this time it caused our guy who was following to do the same and swerve sending us into a wall.  The guys on my team who did pass on yellow (2 of the 14) are getting a lot of crap from me and will have something stupid to help them remember to look at the stands.  It's just about inexcusable to not see yellow flags and just as inexcusable to stand on your brakes when you do.

BTW Mr. Yuck, I was out Sunday afternoon, 2ish and enjoyed seeing and racing with you guys.  Would have stopped by to visit if I didn't spend the day straightening our car.

yeah I saw a lot of hard braking on yellows, did you catch the almost destruction of the TR-7 down the front stretch? Sorry about the car man, sucks, car seemed to be running well. I hope you all can get it fixed. BTW wasn't talking about your team, some people that should know better. I must of had a dozen guys pass me under yellow/white FYI that means you can pass the safety equipment NOT other drivers.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

4 (edited by RobL 2017-05-16 01:48 PM)

Re: Yellow flags and passing

Mr.Yuck wrote:

I must of had a dozen guys pass me under yellow/white FYI that means you can pass the safety equipment NOT other drivers.

And I'm sure you know that just a white flag just means that there is a slow moving vehicle up ahead - could be racecar -or- EV.  A white flag by itself does not mean no passing.

Also, as an FYI, the flagging rules changed a couple of years ago, the no passing zone starts at the flag station and runs to the incident.  It's no longer line of sight to first flag station to first manned flag station not displaying a yellow. 

What I also saw was a lot of people slowing way down for the hazard flag (red and yellow stripes) and waving like it's a yellow.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: Yellow flags and passing

RobL wrote:
Mr.Yuck wrote:

I must of had a dozen guys pass me under yellow/white FYI that means you can pass the safety equipment NOT other drivers.

And I'm sure you know that just a white flag just means that there is a slow moving vehicle up ahead - could be racecar -or- EV.  A white flag by itself does not mean no passing.

Also, as an FYI, the flagging rules changed a couple of years ago, the no passing zone starts at the flag station and runs to the incident.  It's no longer line of sight to first flag station to first manned flag station not displaying a yellow. 

What I also saw was a lot of people slowing way down for the hazard flag (red and yellow stripes) and waving like it's a yellow.

Dude when you are 2 wide with wreckers on the right there is NO NEED or nor should you attempt to pass. That is all kinds of stupid.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

6 (edited by RobL 2017-05-16 04:56 PM)

Re: Yellow flags and passing

Mr.Yuck wrote:

Dude when you are 2 wide with wreckers on the right there is NO NEED or nor should you attempt to pass. That is all kinds of stupid.

If that is what happened, I completely agree with you.  And in that case there would be flying yellow and white flags at the previous station.  I was only pointing out that white flags do not mean to stop racing and that people were slowing down when the flags were not telling them to.  That is equally frustrating and dangerous to come on a car that is slowing down only because a hazard flag is out.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: Yellow flags and passing

RobL wrote:
Mr.Yuck wrote:

I must of had a dozen guys pass me under yellow/white FYI that means you can pass the safety equipment NOT other drivers.

What I also saw was a lot of people slowing way down for the hazard flag (red and yellow stripes) and waving like it's a yellow.

Well I mean it's HALF Yellow.

Also everyone is probably scared they'll get pulled off and given a ticket because WTF Jersey.

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88 Thunderbird "What's the word? Thunderbird!", "What's the Price? Thirty Twice!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

Re: Yellow flags and passing

I got passed 4 times under FCY.  A single station is bad enough, but FCY?

I heard rumor that one guy lapped the field during a FCY.

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Re: Yellow flags and passing

racinrob wrote:

I got passed 4 times under FCY.  A single station is bad enough, but FCY?

I heard rumor that one guy lapped the field during a FCY.

I don't doubt it, I was on the back side a car was sitting in the grass, yellow waving and 2 guys humm right by me. I understand if you don't see the flag right at 1st, but to keep going and not fall back in line is NOT cool.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Yellow flags and passing

racinrob wrote:

I got passed 4 times under FCY.  A single station is bad enough, but FCY?

I heard rumor that one guy lapped the field during a FCY.

I have seen something like that at Thompson last year IIRC.  One driver passed a large group of us, probably 12, before he noticed anything odd.  If someone actually lapped the whole field the judges would definitely remember.  I would think they would bench the driver no matter what the excuse.  Lack of awareness or compete disregard because they have to win.  Either reason is so ridiculous I would have a hard time believing it happened.

At some points I noticed there was a line of 5 cars in for black flags.  It's only my 4th race but it seemed like there was an incredible amount of black flagery.

Re: Yellow flags and passing

seems to me there were a lot of black flags at this race...more than usual...with less car control, more spins, more contact....more passing under yellow

Even that poor, big, beautiful fat Nash got got wacked....C'mon, really?....its a NASH, for God's sake....have some respect for your elders...!

Also, the Black Flag line may have seemed long, since they only had one garage lane for black flags.  I think they usually have 2 lanes...

MarioKart Driving School: 1987 Honda Prelude Opus #28  (still can't win anything...)

Re: Yellow flags and passing

RobL wrote:

white flag just means that there is a slow moving vehicle up ahead - could be racecar -or- EV

We only did that once. And it was very rarely on track. (even we agreed that was stupid and dangerous) Or has someone else joined the ranks of Class E?

Duff Beer Civic (#128) -- 2014 Sebring - Class B (#1 of 7), 2016 Barber - Class B
1981 Jet Electrica 007 [Plymouth Horizon TC3] (#128) -- Mk.1 - Index of Effluency Eco (IOEe) @ 2016 Lemons South Fall, Mk.2 - Judges' Choice @ 2017 'Shine Country Classic, Mk.3 - Index of Effluency @ 2017 Southern Discomfort

13 (edited by Goofracer72 2017-05-18 06:36 AM)

Re: Yellow flags and passing

While I tend to agree with this....On the opposite end of the spectrum, wtf is up with several cars absolutely refusing to pass the emergency vehicles.  No yellow flags.....just white flag, and the EVs.  Obviously you don't wanna blow by them 2 wide at full song.....absolutely pass them safely.....but don't crawl next to em either.  That creates a traffic jam.  At one point there was a line of 10 cars waiting to get by the EVs cuz someone was afraid to pass the trucks even though the driver in the tow truck was waving him by.   Mind you...there were no yellows on that part of the track.  Or even when the white and yellows are displayed....you can still follow the field around the EVs.  There were also a few cars that slowed down under full course yellow (or even local yellows) and wouldn't catch up to the rest of the field, allowing cars that I just worked my ass off to catch up to and were racing with to drive away while I'm trapped behind them just putting along. Track would go green and I hafta do it all over again.  Really friggin frustrating.  It happens once in a while at every race...but it was bad this weekend.  When my teammates are actually complaining about it, it's gotta be an issue.

14

Re: Yellow flags and passing

I don't know if this is typical or not, but at the Saturday morning driver's meeting, Steve McDaniel noted that there were about 120 first-timers (probably around 1/4 of all drivers). I remember not being 100% sure what to do about passing EVs at my first race.

We Audi Be Faster
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Re: Yellow flags and passing

The safety trucks were driving a bit fast for the conditions, making passing them sketchy in places.



Bill

2017 Thompson Motor Speedway #36 Sabrina Duncan Racing...... WTF.........
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Re: Yellow flags and passing

If they truely were yellow flags, that means people aren't paying attention, and are doing stupid things.

Like other folks said, If it's a white flag only, or a yellow/red, that's NOT a no-passing flag.    It's up to each driver to decide if it's safe to pass or not.    Of course, some people always have worse judgement than others.

Myself, i usually err on the side of caution, but others?   not always so much.   I'm not condoning it, just saying that everybody's definition of "safe to pass" varies greatly.


Remember, on the highway, anyone going faster than you is a maniac, and anyone going slower is an idiot!

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Re: Yellow flags and passing

I wasn't there, but I can take a reasonable guess:

It's New Jersey and Steve wasn't on his A-game with the Fear of God thing.



That said, I still like the old yellow flag rules more. Way easier to clearly communicate to dumb drivers (but apparently harder to coordinate with corner workers)

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Team FinalGear

Re: Yellow flags and passing

mike944 wrote:

If they truely were yellow flags, that means people aren't paying attention, and are doing stupid things.

Like other folks said, If it's a white flag only, or a yellow/red, that's NOT a no-passing flag.    It's up to each driver to decide if it's safe to pass or not.    Of course, some people always have worse judgement than others.

Myself, i usually err on the side of caution, but others?   not always so much.   I'm not condoning it, just saying that everybody's definition of "safe to pass" varies greatly.


Remember, on the highway, anyone going faster than you is a maniac, and anyone going slower is an idiot!

I'll see if we have any in-car cam....I haven't downloaded it all.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Yellow flags and passing

EyeMWing wrote:

That said, I still like the old yellow flag rules more. Way easier to clearly communicate to dumb drivers (but apparently harder to coordinate with corner workers)

It's actually very simple. The zone of yellow is from the station past the incident, keeping in mind there may be more than one incident. That's much easier for drivers to obey, and corner workers to police.

The old station-to-station rule was a nightmare. I pass a yellow, I'm under yellow until the next station. If the flag is taken down 3ft behind me, I'm still under yellow while the cars behind me aren't. I don't expect corner workers to report me for returning to speed and passing before the station, but to the letter of the law, they could. As a driver, I'm pissed that these idiots are passing me under yellow (that I don't know isn't there anymore.) As a corner worker, I'm not going to keep a count of who passed my station with the yellow flying.

Duff Beer Civic (#128) -- 2014 Sebring - Class B (#1 of 7), 2016 Barber - Class B
1981 Jet Electrica 007 [Plymouth Horizon TC3] (#128) -- Mk.1 - Index of Effluency Eco (IOEe) @ 2016 Lemons South Fall, Mk.2 - Judges' Choice @ 2017 'Shine Country Classic, Mk.3 - Index of Effluency @ 2017 Southern Discomfort

Re: Yellow flags and passing

I don't get was is so hard, yellow flag out, don't pass, slow down until the next station, no flag...go yellow flag stay slow.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Yellow flags and passing

Mr.Yuck wrote:

I don't get was is so hard, yellow flag out, don't pass, slow down until the next station, no flag...go yellow flag stay slow.

There are a couple of reasons: 

First, it started when someone sees the flag not at a defined point.  I can be driving more heads up than you and see the flag further away and slow up.  You then pass me, still before the flag station, and then see the flag.  Should you get a PUY because I saw the yellow first?  Worse, you look up, realize what happened, and you lock your brakes up making a bad situation worse.

Second, there is less time spent in a yellow area.  They have reduced the amount of time and cars in a yellow area and have reduced the amount of conga lines that develop because of the yellows. 

Third, because no other organization does it that way. 

One thing that I've seen is that Lemons organizers have always erred on the side of safety.  The previous yellow flag rules were part of that but they were causing more problems than they solved.  I'm sure the volume of PUY black flags have been reduced.  The track is safer because you don't have different people slowing at different times and you don't get long backups because long areas of the track are yellow.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: Yellow flags and passing

RobL wrote:
Mr.Yuck wrote:

I don't get was is so hard, yellow flag out, don't pass, slow down until the next station, no flag...go yellow flag stay slow.

There are a couple of reasons: 

First, it started when someone sees the flag not at a defined point.  I can be driving more heads up than you and see the flag further away and slow up.  You then pass me, still before the flag station, and then see the flag.  Should you get a PUY because I saw the yellow first?  Worse, you look up, realize what happened, and you lock your brakes up making a bad situation worse.

Second, there is less time spent in a yellow area.  They have reduced the amount of time and cars in a yellow area and have reduced the amount of conga lines that develop because of the yellows. 

Third, because no other organization does it that way. 

One thing that I've seen is that Lemons organizers have always erred on the side of safety.  The previous yellow flag rules were part of that but they were causing more problems than they solved.  I'm sure the volume of PUY black flags have been reduced.  The track is safer because you don't have different people slowing at different times and you don't get long backups because long areas of the track are yellow.

I guess so, but there was still a BUTT LOAD of passing under yellow and a ton of traffic.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Yellow flags and passing

Mr.Yuck wrote:

I guess so, but there was still a BUTT LOAD of passing under yellow and a ton of traffic.

Saturday sucked ass for PUY.  Our driver got one and when I reviewed the video, there was no way in hell he could have seen the yellow flag - to much spray and cars were blocking the view of the flagstation.  Add to that, people were really trying to concentrate on driving and not hitting other cars and I can understand how someone can miss the flag.   

Traffic is traffic.  It was worse than usual because the track was slow and cars that would normally overheat or break under full race speed could stay on track.  Then those cars would try to pass another slow car and it would back up traffic even worse.  But they paid their entry fee too and let's face it, if you pass a hotdog stand on a racetrack and don't smile, you are in the wrong series.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.