The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Newcomers → Adjustable vs non adjustable shocks
Noob here. What are your opinions on adjustable vs non. Car currently has non adjustable with clipped springs but to switch over to adjustable it would take some extensive modifications. Is the juice worth the squeeze?
If you get it right the first time, no adjustment needed.
That said, doing so means knowing the damping will match the "cut springs" and the car and track conditions. Can you do that.
Adjustable is a broad term. Are you talking coil overs with adjustable ride height, rebound and compression damping? If so, hugely cheaty and will be noticed. Not saying no, just saying un less you are running something terrible, expect penalty laps.
Cheaty. And probably not worth it. Get some basic gas monotubes. You have a long way to go before shocks become a limiting factor.
Unless you're in a fox body. then find a set of shocks off an 01 Bullett Mustang.
Cheaty. And probably not worth it. Get some basic gas monotubes. You have a long way to go before shocks become a limiting factor..
Took us about 9 races with the van before we finally said enough is enough...when your limiting factor (besides driver talent) is the ability to put down power coming out of the corners due to wheel hop from too much spring and not enough damping...that is when you need to go cheaty on shocks. Before that is a waste of time, money and heartache.
We have new wholesaler closeout Rockauto KYB GR2's upfront and some cheapo Monroes from the previous racecar in the back. Cut springs all around, and they work great. I don't think you need more shock until you do something radical like triple your spring rate, or if for some other reason you have wheel hop issues. Even then, pays to look through RockAuto catalog to see what's applicable, sometimes there are significantly heavier cars from the same manufacturer with the same shape shock/strut.
We bought a parts car in jersey years back for front suspension when we had a bad collision and was fortunate the 500 parts car had coilovers on it. We took it home and kept the differential and driveshaft and sold a bunch of things.
Thanks! After reading and talking we will replace stock and see bow it feels!
Good question
4 Wheel Parts often has buy 3 get 1 free. Rancho RS9000XLs are adjustable and have many applications. For example, Hummer H3 2" lift shocks are direct replacements for a Jaguar XJ. I hope many of you can use the information.
You're not a good enough driver for it to matter. ;-)
adjustable shocks are not really necessary if you not changing your setup. (springs and tires). If you do like change tires, drive car on the street, etc.. adjustable might be a good idea.
The general advice I give new people at the track is this:
Until you can fully articulate the handling characteristics of the car do not touch the suspension. This does assume you are not burning the tires off it due to a problem such as alignment or tire pressure/selection.
Once you understand vehicle handling and you are able to talk about things such things as the difference between turn-in push versus mid corner push, don't touch it. You'll never get it right and you risk making the car dangerous to drive.
In the Lemons racing world I don't see where they will make you faster if your not getting everything out of the car as it sits. When you throw in "sticky" race tires which you can't use in Lemons then having the best shock will pay dividends. Keeping the tire flat on the track at the limit makes you faster.
I've been around "real" race cars and have raced both at club level and in Lemons and most drivers during a Lemons race don't get to race at the "limit" for more then a turn or two before them have to back off due to traffic/slower cars. Set the car up that is handles OK and drive smart and you're going to do well if nothing breaks.
Good shocks (even non-adjustables) are worth it. It doesn't matter if you are not already getting out of the car as it sits. It makes the car more predictable and easier to drive at/near/close/halfway to the limits. It doesn't matter what tires you are on because todays top "street tires" are capable of pulling close to 1g in the corners. Even with bad tires, shocks still contribute significantly to the handling of the car. That is why suspension components are looked at more closely by the judges.
I completely agree with what Chris said above - until you can clearly and accurately articulate the handling characteristics of the car (and can tell the difference between a mechanical vs. driver induced characteristic) then you should stay away from adjustable suspension components. Stick with a non-adjustable Koni or KYB (if your budget allows).
Most cars racing in Lemons are probably (or should be) 100K+ mi claptraps.
Decent OE-grade replacements will do wonders for handling even if they are cheapie Monroes (ex: I think our tbirds rear shocks cost $10.77 on rockauto closeout -- BEFORE the ubiquitous 5% off coupon)
One observation is that new OE-grade shocks aren't necessarily designed for hours upon hours of repeated abuse on the track. After every race, I'd carefully check them out to make sure they aren't blown because of the abuse you subjected them to. If you are used to the car handling one way and then it starts to feel different, you may need to replace them before your next race (they are cheap enough). I think I went through a whole race before realizing that our front right shock was completely blown out in our previous outing.
-g
Guildenstern wrote:Cheaty. And probably not worth it. Get some basic gas monotubes. You have a long way to go before shocks become a limiting factor..
Took us about 9 races with the van before we finally said enough is enough...when your limiting factor (besides driver talent) is the ability to put down power coming out of the corners due to wheel hop from too much spring and not enough damping...that is when you need to go cheaty on shocks. Before that is a waste of time, money and heartache.
Did you guys look at swaybars first? There's a lot you can do to a stock swaybar setup for free/cheap that'll make a huge difference.
Good shocks (even non-adjustables) are worth it. It doesn't matter if you are not already getting out of the car as it sits. It makes the car more predictable and easier to drive at/near/close/halfway to the limits. It doesn't matter what tires you are on because todays top "street tires" are capable of pulling close to 1g in the corners. Even with bad tires, shocks still contribute significantly to the handling of the car. That is why suspension components are looked at more closely by the judges.
I completely agree with what Chris said above - until you can clearly and accurately articulate the handling characteristics of the car (and can tell the difference between a mechanical vs. driver induced characteristic) then you should stay away from adjustable suspension components. Stick with a non-adjustable Koni or KYB (if your budget allows).
I agree robL. If you want the tire to stay in contact with the road a decent shock is key with or with out cut springs. Usually with single adjustables you keep turning them stiffer until they are working the best and leave it. I however have had koni's leak in various applications. Brand is preference, had lots of luck with kyb and tokico blues. Bilsteins are best bang for buck, they take a beating and last. Just my 2 cents.
OnkelUdo wrote:Guildenstern wrote:Cheaty. And probably not worth it. Get some basic gas monotubes. You have a long way to go before shocks become a limiting factor..
Took us about 9 races with the van before we finally said enough is enough...when your limiting factor (besides driver talent) is the ability to put down power coming out of the corners due to wheel hop from too much spring and not enough damping...that is when you need to go cheaty on shocks. Before that is a waste of time, money and heartache.
Did you guys look at swaybars first? There's a lot you can do to a stock swaybar setup for free/cheap that'll make a huge difference.
Added a rear sway third race. Front sway is...um, unique and limited.
The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Newcomers → Adjustable vs non adjustable shocks