Topic: Help! E36 Rear Subframe/Diff Removal

I have read all the DIY I could find regarding the removal before I started. Here are the issues/questions I have after getting started and feel stuck and now a little concerned.

1994 325i

1. Separating the diff from the driveshaft. I have taken the 4 nuts off. How do you get the studs out so that the diff is free of the driveshaft?

2. Concerning the 4 bolts holding the rear subframe. The rear most two bolts dropped right out. The front two are just spinning but don't seem to want to drop out. They have lowered about an inch, and I can see threads between the subframe and the body of the car, but they won't come out.

3. My plan was to drop the diff and subframe out together as all the diy I read do it that way. Would it be better to remove the diff first?

4. Reinstalling everything (if I ever actually get there). Should it be reinstalled as one unit? Or install the subframe and then the diff?

I would really appreciate any help as I feel stuck and pretty helpless at this point. Plus, I'm at that point right now of feeling frustrated after working for a few hours and getting nothing accomplished.


Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest mobile app

Re: Help! E36 Rear Subframe/Diff Removal

I suspect those front bolts are getting wedged in there because the subframe is basically hanging from them at this point.  Make sure you have the subframe/diff properly supported from below  Have you disconnected the trailing arms from the body already?  If so try reconnecting them as they can help keep things aligned as you lower the subframe.

Those studs don't come out.  I would just remove the driveshaft altogether to get it out of your way.

Electric Mayhem Racing

Re: Help! E36 Rear Subframe/Diff Removal

I've never pulled a rear w/o dropping the driveshaft 1st.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Help! E36 Rear Subframe/Diff Removal

The rear trailing arms are off currently. Had to take them off since the axles were rusted in place requiring a 20 ton press to remove them. Took the opportunity to change all the bushings and clean them up.

I'll remove the exhaust and drop the driveshaft. It's crazy to me that in all the diy articles I read, not one mentioned dropping the driveshaft. They pretty much glossed over the diff separation like it was a non-issue. But since I have asked the question here and on binmerfest, everyone has said it needs to be removed.

Thanks for all the help! Guess I'll take the opportunity to replace the driveshaft center bearing and the flexdisc/guibo. Any advice on replacing those?

Re: Help! E36 Rear Subframe/Diff Removal

"since the axles were rusted in place requiring a 20 ton press"
WHAT? You might just want to go to a yard and get a complete rear. I have never seen axles rusted in place, frozen brakes yes, axles???. And one of my last projects was a 51 Dodge pickup that had sat for about 30 years.  Was the car under salt water? If you are going thru all that trouble get a LSD.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Help! E36 Rear Subframe/Diff Removal

It wasn't underwater as far as I know, but it was obvious to me in the 23 years that car has been around, the rear end has never been taken apart. There is quite a bit of rust on the undercarriage. Everything has been taken out and run through a parts cleaner and resprayed with undercarriage spray paint. Brand new hubs/bearings, new bushings, new axles/cv joints, and reinforced painted rear sub frame going back in. Wish I could go with an LSD, but I'm out of money!

Re: Help! E36 Rear Subframe/Diff Removal

" Wish I could go with an LSD, but I'm out of money!"

TRUTH.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Help! E36 Rear Subframe/Diff Removal

Our undercarriage was (is) rusted pretty bad but no issues with the axles like you describe.  I did snap off one of the trailing arm bracket bolts about 2 weeks before our first race.  That was... stressful.  Kudos to you for doing all that clean-up work - ours still looks like garbage.

We got very lucky in that literally the only factory option added to our rusted out clap-trap $350 E36 happened to be the cold weather package with that all important LSD.  I also re-purposed the heavier-gauge seat-heater wires to run our cool-suit pump.

Where do you plan on running?

Electric Mayhem Racing

Re: Help! E36 Rear Subframe/Diff Removal

mgavro wrote:

Our undercarriage was (is) rusted pretty bad but no issues with the axles like you describe.  I did snap off one of the trailing arm bracket bolts about 2 weeks before our first race.  That was... stressful.  Kudos to you for doing all that clean-up work - ours still looks like garbage.

We got very lucky in that literally the only factory option added to our rusted out clap-trap $350 E36 happened to be the cold weather package with that all important LSD.  I also re-purposed the heavier-gauge seat-heater wires to run our cool-suit pump.

Where do you plan on running?

Very fortunate on the lsd! May be worth trying to find one in a salvage yard, but then again, I never want to drop a rear subframe again!

We plan on racing at MSR Houston in November, but as of right now the entire track is under water.

Re: Help! E36 Rear Subframe/Diff Removal

Mr.Yuck wrote:

"since the axles were rusted in place requiring a 20 ton press"
WHAT? You might just want to go to a yard and get a complete rear. I have never seen axles rusted in place, frozen brakes yes, axles???. And one of my last projects was a 51 Dodge pickup that had sat for about 30 years.  Was the car under salt water? If you are going thru all that trouble get a LSD.

I had a focus that I couldn't budge the axles on, destroyed the axle nut as well, had to hack it off with a cutting wheel. Took it to a shop and he said his 12 ton wouldn't budge it even with it glowing red from an acetylene torch. He got it out with a 30 ton, and the splines were almost unrecognizable in the hub since they were so galled. That car lived through 15 Ohio winters by that time, so it might as well have been parked in shallow salt water for an extended period of time. I've since moved south, and my 60 year old vehicles I've bought here don't fight me anywhere near as a hard as that car ever did.

11 (edited by ericgavinroberts 2017-09-04 09:07 AM)

Re: Help! E36 Rear Subframe/Diff Removal

Update:

Got the rear subframe out a couple days ago, didn't end up having to remove the drive shaft. After tapping a flathead screw driver up in between the rear driveshaft and the diff input flange, it sepearated and I was able to lower the subframe/diff.

It's all taken apart, all the rear suspension components and diff have been cleaned with a wire brush and repainted. Cleaned all the hardware with muriatic acid and then sprayed with anticorrosive paint. Flushed and refilled the diff with Swepco 201.

Now it's just time to put it back together and reinstall everything. Not looking forward to that, as hard as it was to get out, I imagine it's even harder to put back in. At least it will all be clean this time.

As an aside, I called the local BMW dealership to see about getting new bolts/nuts for the control arms. 8 bolts and 8 nuts. $330!!! No thanks, I just cleaned them up.

Re: Help! E36 Rear Subframe/Diff Removal

ericgavinroberts wrote:

As an aside, I called the local BMW dealership to see about getting new bolts/nuts for the control arms. 8 bolts and 8 nuts. $330!!! No thanks, I just cleaned them up.

Buy everything you can from fcpeuro.com - They have a practically unbelievable lifetime replacement warranty on every single part they sell - even wear parts like oil, filters, rotors, pads, etc.  Yes, that means free oil changes for life.

I will never again have to pay for rotors, belts, hoses, radiator, and a whole bunch of other stuff.

Electric Mayhem Racing

Re: Help! E36 Rear Subframe/Diff Removal

mgavro wrote:
ericgavinroberts wrote:

As an aside, I called the local BMW dealership to see about getting new bolts/nuts for the control arms. 8 bolts and 8 nuts. $330!!! No thanks, I just cleaned them up.

Buy everything you can from fcpeuro.com - They have a practically unbelievable lifetime replacement warranty on every single part they sell - even wear parts like oil, filters, rotors, pads, etc.  Yes, that means free oil changes for life.

I will never again have to pay for rotors, belts, hoses, radiator, and a whole bunch of other stuff.

Wow, thanks for the tip! I'll use them as often as possible'

Re: Help! E36 Rear Subframe/Diff Removal

All these comments and no one mentions Haynes manual or Bentley? This is craziness! Makes me question the cars I'll be out on the track with. Why would you not follow the manual and do things properly?


***Honest question. I am a very n00b but if this is what Lemons is I'm not sure I want to go forward with building a car. If you need to take something apart and put it back together you need to do it the right way. If not you are ignorant or negligent. Event organizers knowing this is common practice makes the whole event scary. This is the first time I've ventured outside of the newby section so maybe bad sample size but what's going on here?


** Full disclosure: I own six e36's.

Re: Help! E36 Rear Subframe/Diff Removal

ericgavinroberts wrote:

I have read all the DIY I could find regarding the removal before I started.

Did you buy the Haynes or Bentley manual and read either?

Re: Help! E36 Rear Subframe/Diff Removal

1215 wrote:
ericgavinroberts wrote:

I have read all the DIY I could find regarding the removal before I started.

Did you buy the Haynes or Bentley manual and read either?


You do realize that most factory manuals are not that good right? Example, the mazda manual for a 1988 RX7, when getting to the engine removal section, takes a page to say "remove this list of items from the engine" and then lists a ton of accessories with no details on how. Several have weird tricks that take a second to see. I'm mostly unimpressed with the e36 manuals I've seen. Lines like "disconnect the driveshaft" with no further details are common. They assume you are a trained master tech familiar with the car. Do not attack people because they showed up asking for help from people who likely have done this job before.




Re: rusted in axles. It's not that uncommon. My 2012 WRX, when I replaced a rear wheel hub at 125k miles the axle was stuck in there good. Had to get a big gear puller and an impact gun to put enough force on the shaft for it to pop out.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

17

Re: Help! E36 Rear Subframe/Diff Removal

BUt Manuel knows nothing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6EaoPMANQM

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
Facebook Page

Re: Help! E36 Rear Subframe/Diff Removal

1215 wrote:

All these comments and no one mentions Haynes manual or Bentley? This is craziness! Makes me question the cars I'll be out on the track with. Why would you not follow the manual and do things properly?

** Full disclosure: I own six e36's.

FYI - At this point, you have much knowledge and experience that you can lend the OP.
On this forum, Lemons Bushido requires that you share you experience and knowledge freely.

Asking if they have read a manual is counter-productive.

Capt. Delinquent Racing
RUST-TITE XR4Ti - '21 ARSE-FREEZE-APALOOZA  I Got Screwed
The One & Only Taurus V8 SHO #31(now moved on to another OG Delinquent)
'17 Vodden the Hell - (No) Hope for the Future Award, '08 AMP Survivor, '08 ARSE-FREEZE-APALOOZA Mega-Cheater

Re: Help! E36 Rear Subframe/Diff Removal

Late to this thread, but if you haven't re-installed yet, it's a lot easier to remove and reinstall the diff into the subframe first and then lift the entire thing into the chassis.

I get most of my BMW parts from Pelican Parts. Good prices, fast shipping, they have nearly everything. For stupid expensive factory hardware, that often gets swapped out with replacement hardware from McMaster Carr or, surprisingly, the Ace Hardware near the house.

YMMV. Good luck!

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: Help! E36 Rear Subframe/Diff Removal

Since you have everything dropped are you planning on installing the rear sub frame reinforcement kit? This was installed from the factory on the M and iS models, you should consider doing this as there is a lot of lateral torque that eventually can rip the 4 upper mounting bolts free from the unibody, these are the ones directly above the rear diff.

you can buy the kit here:   https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-bmw … uYQAvD_BwE

Butt Sweat & Beers.

Re: Help! E36 Rear Subframe/Diff Removal

If you have to read the manual it's probably not worth doing.

                                                        - Anonymous

1215 wrote:

Did you buy the Haynes or Bentley manual and read either?

10x loser (Arse-Freeze '11 - Vodden '15) 1x WINNER! Arse-Freeze '14 in the Watermelon Volvo Wagon
Swedish Knievel Skycycle('90 Volvo 740 Wagon)

Re: Help! E36 Rear Subframe/Diff Removal

1215 wrote:

All these comments and no one mentions Haynes manual or Bentley? This is craziness! Makes me question the cars I'll be out on the track with. Why would you not follow the manual and do things properly?


***Honest question. I am a very n00b but if this is what Lemons is I'm not sure I want to go forward with building a car. If you need to take something apart and put it back together you need to do it the right way. If not you are ignorant or negligent. Event organizers knowing this is common practice makes the whole event scary. This is the first time I've ventured outside of the newby section so maybe bad sample size but what's going on here?


** Full disclosure: I own six e36's.

Not a Roadkill fan, I suppose.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com