• From: Life's great in 21158
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 3,361

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

After running perhaps 8 or 9 Lemons races (and having exactly 0 other racing experience) I arrived and drove at a Chump event for another team.  Now, Chumpcar kind of sets itself up as more "serious" racing, and the attitude there reflected that.  The night before the race, I was chatting with a fellow (who turned out to be a Most Fabulous Prick) and we were discussing the differences between Lemons and Chump.  I told him I'd only ever run the former.  He said to me,

"Well, I don't want to offend you... "

And I stopped him right there and I said, look, you can't offend me, just say what you're thinking, I want to hear it.

"Well", he continued, "Chump is for racers who want to pretend they're idiots.  And Lemons is for idiots who want to pretend they're racers". 

We both had a good laugh (I quit taking myself, or life in general, too seriously sometime around 2006).  The next day, while I was out in the Subaru I was renting a ride in, I came in and noticed a Porsche coming in on a flatbed.  It had stuffed itself into the side of a wall pretty hard (this was at Road Atlanta).  Then I heard who had been driving.

I'll give you one guess who it was.

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  • Mr.Yuck
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  • From: Brookeville, Md.
  • Registered: 2013-12-09
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Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

VKZ24 wrote:

Ever been to a local dirt track race?  Safety tech is pretty much non-existent.  DOM tubing for a roll cage?  Nah, go to Joe's muffler shop and he'll make you a cage for $75.  Roll bar padding?  Nah, just use that pipe insulation from Lowes.  SA-rated, full faced, in-date helmet?  Nah, just use any open-faced one from 1970.  Required HANS device?  Nah, your neck will be fine w/o one.  In-date harness?  Nah, get a used one from any 1980's era NASCAR.

Yes, racing is dangerous, but most of us do all we can to avoid injury to ourselves and others.  For those who don't, the tech inspectors are there to be sure they comply.  Lemons enforces their rules, and those who don't play by them, get a trip home.

As a rule of thumb, you are far more likely to be injured on the way TO the track, than you are ON the track.

Try a non-NHRA/IHRA event (drag strip) You should see some of the rattle traps running well over 140 w/ no cage, no harness, no real tech inspection... got a battery hold down? check... Got a helmet? check...go racing.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"
  • Mr.Yuck
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Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

mechimike wrote:

After running perhaps 8 or 9 Lemons races (and having exactly 0 other racing experience) I arrived and drove at a Chump event for another team.  Now, Chumpcar kind of sets itself up as more "serious" racing, and the attitude there reflected that.  The night before the race, I was chatting with a fellow (who turned out to be a Most Fabulous Prick) and we were discussing the differences between Lemons and Chump.  I told him I'd only ever run the former.  He said to me,

"Well, I don't want to offend you... "

And I stopped him right there and I said, look, you can't offend me, just say what you're thinking, I want to hear it.

"Well", he continued, "Chump is for racers who want to pretend they're idiots.  And Lemons is for idiots who want to pretend they're racers". 

We both had a good laugh (I quit taking myself, or life in general, too seriously sometime around 2006).  The next day, while I was out in the Subaru I was renting a ride in, I came in and noticed a Porsche coming in on a flatbed.  It had stuffed itself into the side of a wall pretty hard (this was at Road Atlanta).  Then I heard who had been driving.

I'll give you one guess who it was.

Chump is far more competitive and unlike Lemons most of the cars are fast and the people are much more "racy"

"get up and get your grandma outta here"
  • From: Life's great in 21158
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 3,361

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

Mr.Yuck wrote:
VKZ24 wrote:

Ever been to a local dirt track race?  Safety tech is pretty much non-existent.  DOM tubing for a roll cage?  Nah, go to Joe's muffler shop and he'll make you a cage for $75.  Roll bar padding?  Nah, just use that pipe insulation from Lowes.  SA-rated, full faced, in-date helmet?  Nah, just use any open-faced one from 1970.  Required HANS device?  Nah, your neck will be fine w/o one.  In-date harness?  Nah, get a used one from any 1980's era NASCAR.

Yes, racing is dangerous, but most of us do all we can to avoid injury to ourselves and others.  For those who don't, the tech inspectors are there to be sure they comply.  Lemons enforces their rules, and those who don't play by them, get a trip home.

As a rule of thumb, you are far more likely to be injured on the way TO the track, than you are ON the track.

Try a non-NHRA/IHRA event (drag strip) You should see some of the rattle traps running well over 140 w/ no cage, no harness, no real tech inspection... got a battery hold down? check... Got a helmet? check...go racing.

What is this "battery hold down" business you speak of?  If I'm in a wreck, I want that battery thrown as far away from me as possible!

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

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  • From: Portlandia
  • Registered: 2014-08-08
  • Posts: 1,035

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

I think you are safer out on the track dodging Miatas than in the paddock.

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  • From: Virginia
  • Registered: 2017-09-20
  • Posts: 5

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

Of course it is dangerous, It's obvious, isn't it? Even if you are a very careful person...

  • RobL
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Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

CPT_Trans_Continental wrote:

I think you are safer out on the track dodging Miatas than in the paddock.

Track : Roll cage - check.  Helmet - check.  Fire suit - check.  Corner workers watching for danger - check.

Paddock : Drunk - check.  oxy-acetylene torch - check.  Unsupervised - check.

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We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
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  • Mr.Yuck
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Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

RobL wrote:
CPT_Trans_Continental wrote:

I think you are safer out on the track dodging Miatas than in the paddock.

Track : Roll cage - check.  Helmet - check.  Fire suit - check.  Corner workers watching for danger - check.

Paddock : Drunk - check.  oxy-acetylene torch - check.  Unsupervised - check.

your forgot big hammers and sawzalls.

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  • Registered: 2011-10-14
  • Posts: 4,167

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

And there is the infamous riding your bike (sober) through the paddock and breaking you face on a Lemons car you did not see.

  • From: Cleveland, OH
  • Registered: 2011-09-03
  • Posts: 2,227

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

Or jumping over flaming pans of oil on a gas powered barstool that then ended up halfway around the track abandoned in the middle of the night.

Summit Point was great.

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  • From: Chicago, IL
  • Registered: 2013-09-02
  • Posts: 169

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

OnkelUdo wrote:

And there is the infamous riding your bike (sober) through the paddock and breaking you face on a Lemons car you did not see.

Aaaaannnnd the windshield of said Lemons car if I remember the story correctly?

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  • Registered: 2011-10-14
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Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

jimmy.shearer wrote:
OnkelUdo wrote:

And there is the infamous riding your bike (sober) through the paddock and breaking you face on a Lemons car you did not see.

Aaaaannnnd the windshield of said Lemons car if I remember the story correctly?

Yep...our "spare" windshield that we bring to every race to stall off Murphy and guarantee we never need it.  I think we are up to three "donations" of the 1/2" welded wire at this point.

38 Reply by CPB

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Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

No risk, no reward.

Everything worth doing is dangerous. big_smile

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  • From: Gilbertsville, PA
  • Registered: 2009-12-22
  • Posts: 3,251

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

The race organizer has stopped going to tracks that were deemed "unsafe".  Safety is the #1 priority BY FAR.  Still, shit happens when you drive fast.  Can happen anywhere.  I'm glad I have a safe cage around me.  a hans device to keep my head attached.  A Firesuit on to keep me from burning.  a helmet to protect my tiny brain.  A fire system to put me and the car out.

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  • bshorey
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Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

1215 wrote:

I just briefly browsed through the tech session and holy shit I'm scared. I come from a racing world where people do things properly and safely. They don't shoot first and ask questions later.

I'm scared enough that I'm considering not attempting to enter. If you can't even buy (or follow) a factory manual I don't want to be on the track with you. Is that the norm? If that's the norm I'd like to call it to the attention of the event organizers. This makes for unsafe cars and now knowing this, your event insurance premiums should reflect this.

Every form of racing is dangerous.

There are two things you need to consider:

1) The cars safety equipment
2) The other drivers around you

For #1, I can assure you that while Lemons is centered around 'crap can' race cars, they take the safety equipment very seriously.  There is no budget limitations on safety equipment, and the requirements around cages, construction, etc, are all very well thought out.  While you might see a lot of boneheaded questions being asked on this forum, when the car shows up at the track if it's not up to snuff it will not be allowed on the track.  Period, end of story.

That said, I'm not sure why you'd care whether or not some other team built a crappy cage for their car.  If you've got high standards, then good for you!  Build the best and safest car you can, and don't worry about everybody else who might be compressing their spine in an accident.  If somebody else cuts corners and maims themselves, then why would that scare you?

It's #2 you should be worried about.  There are no limitations on drivers, other than having a valid drivers license.  That means you've got a wide range of drivers around you, from people who have never been on a track, and people who have no business being anywhere near a track, to people who are much better drivers than you and I.  Couple that with the notion that some times you'll have both kinds of drivers in the same car, so at some point you might be dicing with a car that's being professionally driven, and 30 minutes later there may be another driver in that same car who seems to be trying to kill you.

Personally, I'm not the fastest driver on our team, so I kind of enjoy trying to work my way around the knuckleheads.  But YMMV.

As others have said, show up at a Lemons race and watch cars go through tech on Friday.  You'll see how serious they are about safety equipment.  They don't take that lightly.  Then hang out for the rest of the weekend and watch and learn.  It may not be for you, or maybe it is.  I know a lot of serious racers that truly enjoy Lemons as a fun way to get some track time.

bs

bs

41 Reply by NSF

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  • From: Cocoa, FL
  • Registered: 2010-06-26
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Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

I am positive that you are much more likely to kill yourself building your Lemon vs "Racing" your Lemon.   

The swirling rat-shit and mold spores during the first stint has to be the greatest danger to both the driver and the teams passing your shit-box. 

I will offer some sage advice:  Paint everything inside the cabin.  Your drivers will thank you later.

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42 Reply by solman244 (edited by solman244 2017-10-05 09:33 AM)

  • From: Charleston
  • Registered: 2010-08-10
  • Posts: 1,030

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

NSF wrote:

I am positive that you are much more likely to kill yourself building your Lemon vs "Racing" your Lemon.   

The swirling rat-shit and mold spores during the first stint has to be the greatest danger to both the driver and the teams passing your shit-box. 

I will offer some sage advice:  Paint everything inside the cabin.  Your drivers will thank you later.

I pretty sure the Barracuda gave me Hantavirus.  Every time I've been sick since then, WebMD suggests that might be it...

Apparently my name is really "Craigers".  Who knew?
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  • RichVS
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  • Registered: 2009-05-10
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Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

fleming95 wrote:

Read up on the Saga of the K Car.  Especially the part about the drive across the Great Basin to Sears Point!

Just stay away from that crowd and you'll be fine...

You'll be fine, just use your head, don't do anything on a dare, follow the rules, and never go near a K car.

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