Re: Inde 2018

I counted up the missing numbers in the drop down.

That guy

Re: Inde 2018

Well that's very clever...

#33 Ford Festiva - We Are Not Really From Iran (Retired)
#928 Porsche 928 - West German Pushrodders (Retired)
#3 BMW E36 - The Internet says this is correct

Re: Inde 2018

To be exact, (because I was on my phone earlier) I typed all the missing numbers into an excel spreadsheet which handily counted them for me.

I stole the basics of the idea from somebody here (count the missing numbers).

I suspect 5 of the entries of being front-engined Porsches (counting yours and mine).

That guy

Re: Inde 2018

where are you seeing this?

Re: Inde 2018

If you go to your (or potentially "a") car entry, you can edit your number. The taken numbers are missing from the list (from 1-999). Your methodology to figure out which ones are missing is up to you.

That guy

Re: Inde 2018

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl3SefJ2Mwk

Re: Inde 2018

Never driven the track before. An empty course will suit me just fine.

Re: Inde 2018

Perfect Tommy wrote:

Never driven the track before. An empty course will suit me just fine.

That you, HP?

Tradewinds Tribesmen Racing (The road goes on forever…)
#289 1984 Corvette Z51 #124 1984 944 #110 2002 Passat
Gone but not forgotten, #427-Hong Kong Cavaliers Benz S500
IOE (Humber!) Hell on Wheels (Jaguar)

34 (edited by billy bee 2018-02-09 06:11 PM)

Re: Inde 2018

DirtyDuc wrote:

Who else is destroying multiple sets of tires in Feb?

I've never been to Inde. What about the track makes it a tire killer? Is it the track surface or composition? Or the track design/course layout?

Roebling Road was paved with some composition that had sea shells in it. It was hard on tires. A long section of the track is constant cornering. We had a hard time getting through sprint races there. Not sure what endurance racers did. I was a Kumho driver at the time, and we did our tire tests there. If you could survive there, you could survive anywhere...except maybe Inde, I guess.

bb

Re: Inde 2018

billy bee wrote:

I've never been to Inde. What about the track makes it a tire killer?

The track doubles as a runway (or the runway doubles as a track, take your pick) which apparently requires a surface that is unfriendly to automobile tires under racing conditions.

1982 MG Metro 1300: IOE 2015 Pacific Northworst GP, Longest Distance 2010 Cd'L Box Wine Country Classic
1980 KV Mini 1: Worst of Show and Fright Pig Supremo 2009 Concours d'Lemons
1978 H Special: Second-Round Elimination 2010 Lemons Pinewood Derby at Sears Pointless
1967 SAAB 96: IOE 2012 Pacific Northworst GP, Organizer's Choice 2022 Hell on Wheels California Rally

Re: Inde 2018

I suspect (with my limited experience) that it's a combination of design and composition/surface... but probably surface finish has a lot to do with it. I haven't wandered the course when cold or touched the track with my fingers, but the difference in tire wear from say, Buttonwillow, is significant.

That guy

Re: Inde 2018

I suspect a big factor is that a majority of the turns are to the right with 3 of them being 180ish degree turns coming at the end of the fastest parts of the track.  I'm thinking/hoping that running the full track this year might even things out.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

Re: Inde 2018

Oh yeah... I think I had power brakes at inde, not so much at buttonwillow.

That guy

Re: Inde 2018

cheseroo wrote:

I suspect a big factor is that a majority of the turns are to the right with 3 of them being 180ish degree turns coming at the end of the fastest parts of the track.  I'm thinking/hoping that running the full track this year might even things out.

I think the surface is not as responsible as the configuration, as above. We had to buy two tires in Tucson on Sat afternoon during the 2016 race. Didn't expect to cord them in a day. Put on two Pilot Super Sports, corded the left side one on Sunday, but the right one had 8/32 left and we're gonna use it up next weekend. Sure seems related to the long right handers to me.

Tradewinds Tribesmen Racing (The road goes on forever…)
#289 1984 Corvette Z51 #124 1984 944 #110 2002 Passat
Gone but not forgotten, #427-Hong Kong Cavaliers Benz S500
IOE (Humber!) Hell on Wheels (Jaguar)

Re: Inde 2018

It's interesting to hear what factors might contribute to such extreme wear. As I mentioned, tire issues at Roebling were due to the track surface. Inde may be more like Lime Rock Park.

I would set up my cars with some stagger at Lime Rock, which only has one slow left-hander. The rest of the track is faster right-handers...which may be similar to Inde. And again, I don't know Inde at all. But it sounds like an interesting challenge...to try to minimize tire wear through better car set up. I would alter the alignment to preserve the tires at Lime Rock, as it was possible to chew up a LF tire in a 30-lap race.

So, I would dial in max neg camber in the LF (I was limited to -2.4 degrees) and zero camber in the RF. That would make the car turn in poorly and understeer through the left-hander, but I was faster in the right-handers, and consistently so over the course of a race, that the left-hander was a non-factor.

When the Runoffs were at Mid-Ohio, I would do something similar, not b/c of tire wear concerns but b/c the fastest turns were left-handers and the slower turns were right handers. I prefer a little understeer in fast corners and a little oversteer in slower corners. So, I would align the car accordingly.

Curious to hear how the long course treats tires...

bb

Re: Inde 2018

The T1 180 will still be there but the one at the end of the runway will be flattened out as the entrance to the long track is in the middle of that corner so it will be a 90 instead of 180ish.  I don't we'll be carry as much speed going into the other 180 (actually more like 240).  Plus we'll be getting two 180ish degree lefts but I'm guessing not fast ones.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

Re: Inde 2018

Well, I never got to find out how the tire wear thing worked out. Blowing up the motor 3 hours into Sat will do it smile

How did everyone else fare?
Any clues on the winners?

Tradewinds Tribesmen Racing (The road goes on forever…)
#289 1984 Corvette Z51 #124 1984 944 #110 2002 Passat
Gone but not forgotten, #427-Hong Kong Cavaliers Benz S500
IOE (Humber!) Hell on Wheels (Jaguar)

Re: Inde 2018

#162 (BMW with Lemons all over it) won A
#33 Rolling Wreck shorty BMW won B
Fish's Pinto won C (and B actually)
Heroic Fix  to Johan's wagon (blew up diff on lap 5, spent all day and night sourcing a 70's Celica rear end which didn't fit, cut off all mounting points and started over but got pinion angle wrong so driveshaft hit body)
IGs to Porsche 928 as they spent the weekend scattering halfshafts and cobbling them together
Org Choice to the diesel Porsche (3 races, 3 trophies but no IOE)
IOE to Anton's 544 (they finished well in spite of missing the first hour mounting 4 tires by hand after the track's tire changer said he'd be right back and then forever disappeared)

Tire wear?  Extended track was better this year.  It didn't discriminate against LF tires.  It killed both LF and RF somewhat equally.  Anton used the same set of Broadwell? tires all weekend.  We flipped the tires on the rims overnight and made it through the weekend with one set.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

Re: Inde 2018

The full course was awesome!!! Really a great circuit. Technical, and fast, with a ton of great flow and elevation change.

I hated the short course, and didn't know what to expect this weekend, but when our car was running it was an absolute blast.

I really hope we go back and do the same course next year.

#33 Ford Festiva - We Are Not Really From Iran (Retired)
#928 Porsche 928 - West German Pushrodders (Retired)
#3 BMW E36 - The Internet says this is correct

Re: Inde 2018

Loved the full course, definitely need to bring more tires next year...and maybe a set that isn't 6 years old with a 480 tread rating