1 (edited by MZAVARIN 2017-12-05 08:22 PM)

Topic: 2018 Rules Update: Class C cars will get to race for half price!

UPDATE, hot off the press!!:

To increase the number of Class C cars at the races, to balance the speed-creep, to encourage more people to enter the Lemons races, to financially help out teams that bring very unreliable Class C cars to the races:

I just heard that it was decided that anyone arriving at a race whose car gets placed in Class C, will get a voucher for a $300 discount toward their next race!  Thus, they get half off the entry fee for their car at the next race!
The voucher is not transferable, and can only be used by the same team.  The voucher can be used for any car that team enters in the next race.  Although if they enter another/same Class C car at the next race, they will get another voucher!

The $175 per driver fee will remain the same for that team/car.

To receive a voucher, teams must submit the online application after the race, with proof that their car was classified in Class C.














(fake news......ha!)

just my suggestion for the 2018 Rules changes, since I LOVE seeing Class C cars at the races....

Anyone have any other great ideas for 2018 Rules tweeks?

MarioKart Driving School: 1987 Honda Prelude Opus #28  (still can't win anything...)

Re: 2018 Rules Update: Class C cars will get to race for half price!

Them at all? Still on the edge of my seat over the fire system.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata.

Re: 2018 Rules Update: Class C cars will get to race for half price!

Just expect fire system mandates. history has shown that anytime they add "it's strongly advised" to the rules it becomes mandatory the following year.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Turbo Dodge Powered E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: 2018 Rules Update: Class C cars will get to race for half price!

As great as this initially sounds, it would be a BS inspection nightmare. People already get butthurt for being classed higher than they want their car to be classed (including me). Add this and fists may fly.

Phil has said that it is as much the team as the car that is getting classed. Heck I've seen former overall race-winning /top 5 cars bequeathed with Class C and even IOE because of the team who was campaigning it.

The rule that I would like is that every time a particular car with a particular team wins a class or an overall, they get an automatic 1 lap "penalty'. Win 5 overall races and they get 5 bs laps. At some point this would hopefully see other teams get chance at the winners podium or see teams who run the same car for 10 years get a different car to erase their BS laps they've accrue with their turbocharged miata or BMW 5 series.

Re: 2018 Rules Update: Class C cars will get to race for half price!

IoE already gets free entry to the next race.  If that doesn't encourage folks to enter crappy cars...

There's a line in one of the books I've been reading my toddler, it goes something like: "Use common sense.  We can't have rules for everything.  Common sense keeps us safe by telling us what to do when there isn't a rule about it."

I think we could all stand to think about that.

Tunachuckers: 10 Years of Sucking at Sucking
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Re: 2018 Rules Update: Class C cars will get to race for half price!

What is "C" Class currently we are in "A" whatever that means.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: 2018 Rules Update: Class C cars will get to race for half price!

They pick the classes out of their asses ! As Judge Phil said to me .

Class A is anything that could win race race!

Class B could possibly win race

Class C hopefully finish race

Pit Crew Revenge Racing   Rolling chicanelimo,95Lamdspeeder,Gimp Pimp Cadi,300zx Car show kaboom!! 90 Wagovan, mazda v8 Lemons LOGO TATTOO!  Aces 84 Cadi Eldo Briattz I O E WINNER
Class C win with LemonOdy Cannonball Run Whambulance !EX K Captain
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Re: 2018 Rules Update: Class C cars will get to race for half price!

Spank wrote:

The rule that I would like is that every time a particular car with a particular team wins a class or an overall, they get an automatic 1 lap "penalty'. Win 5 overall races and they get 5 bs laps.

I'm all for this except the penalty laps should be much more.  If you are the overall race winner, you should get at least a 10 lap penalty for the next race.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: 2018 Rules Update: Class C cars will get to race for half price!

VKZ24 wrote:
Spank wrote:

The rule that I would like is that every time a particular car with a particular team wins a class or an overall, they get an automatic 1 lap "penalty'. Win 5 overall races and they get 5 bs laps.

I'm all for this except the penalty laps should be much more.  If you are the overall race winner, you should get at least a 10 lap penalty for the next race.

I like the arbitrary classing and penalty laps, sure some people will feel hard done by but it works and has kept the rule book short and simple.
The problem with imposing rules is that every win is different, particularly in class B and C where the 5th place car that was 10+ laps down at one stage can come back and win due to mechanical failures and or dick stepping by the faster teams. Should this team that was lucky/good enough to slide through unscathed and chance on a win be 10 laps behind the cars that were already 10 laps better next time out?

The judges do a pretty good job of managing this, we won B and got put in A and followed up with two top five placings and would have won B in both those subsequent races. It took 10+ races to get our crap together well enough to become competitive but the judges knew that our time had come and we were A class contenders. There have been other teams win B and C and not get put up or get put up than back down when clearly they not in the right class.

It's not broke, don't fix it smile

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
16x Loser with the Celica. 5 times loser in other fine machines

Re: 2018 Rules Update: Class C cars will get to race for half price!

While I kind of agree with the auto penalty laps on overall winners, it's really hard to do consistently across the country with a single rule. Each region seems to be a little different when it comes to overall winners and applying a single rule that fixes one region would likely not solve the others. I think the judges do try to equalize, but it comes down to that particular race in the end.

One thing that might work is allowing the judges to adjust penalty laps at the end of friday once they've seen the full field. I'm going to pick on New England for a second. But for example if at a future race Suncook shows up with the same unthemed car and none of the teams that were close to challenging show up, the judges could add a couple penalty laps to even out the top of the field.

Buuuuut that seems like more work for the judges and i fully expect them to tell me to shove this idea up something.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
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2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: 2018 Rules Update: Class C cars will get to race for half price!

TheEngineer wrote:

While I kind of agree with the auto penalty laps on overall winners, it's really hard to do consistently across the country with a single rule. Each region seems to be a little different when it comes to overall winners and applying a single rule that fixes one region would likely not solve the others. I think the judges do try to equalize, but it comes down to that particular race in the end.

One thing that might work is allowing the judges to adjust penalty laps at the end of friday once they've seen the full field. I'm going to pick on New England for a second. But for example if at a future race Suncook shows up with the same unthemed car and none of the teams that were close to challenging show up, the judges could add a couple penalty laps to even out the top of the field.

Buuuuut that seems like more work for the judges and i fully expect them to tell me to shove this idea up something.

I agree. I like the idea of accruing penalty laps for every win, but it adds overhead that I'm sure Lemons doesn't want to deal with. The judges probably already have a hard time keeping most of the regular teams and cars straight, even when they see them every year. There's also the potential for confusion and butthurt over exactly what a "new/different" team entails.

Command Pilot/Flight Director, Escape Velocity Racing
Index of Effluency, Heroic Fix, Class C Trophy, now hopelessly gunning for Class B.
Currently 1-2 vs. Team Fairlylame in the Class of 1964 Championships

Re: 2018 Rules Update: Class C cars will get to race for half price!

fabtoys wrote:

They pick the classes out of their asses ! As Judge Phil said to me .

Class A is anything that could win race race!

Class B could possibly win race

Class C hopefully finish race

obliviously he doesn't know our team/car very well....lol

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: 2018 Rules Update: Class C cars will get to race for half price!

Brett85p wrote:

It's not broke, don't fix it smile

Yup.

Re: 2018 Rules Update: Class C cars will get to race for half price!

TheEngineer wrote:

Just expect fire system mandates. history has shown that anytime they add "it's strongly advised" to the rules it becomes mandatory the following year.

I've been "strongly advised" the last two years by the rules and in person that my cage will become illegal. I'll believe it when I see it.

Owner of the Knights Templar Neon
A&D of middling proportions

Re: 2018 Rules Update: Class C cars will get to race for half price!

VanillaHaze wrote:
TheEngineer wrote:

Just expect fire system mandates. history has shown that anytime they add "it's strongly advised" to the rules it becomes mandatory the following year.

I've been "strongly advised" the last two years by the rules and in person that my cage will become illegal. I'll believe it when I see it.

cages are a very wide branching subject. What exactly are they picking out on your cage? It's possible you're just on the edge of violating one of the rules.


A number of years ago a line was added to the rules that "it's strongly advised that drivers use SFI rated neck protection devices" (HANS). What do you know, next year they were mandatory. I suspect the same is true with fire suppression, we've been given a year to plan it into the budget, and it's coming.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
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Re: 2018 Rules Update: Class C cars will get to race for half price!

TheEngineer wrote:
VanillaHaze wrote:
TheEngineer wrote:

Just expect fire system mandates. history has shown that anytime they add "it's strongly advised" to the rules it becomes mandatory the following year.

I've been "strongly advised" the last two years by the rules and in person that my cage will become illegal. I'll believe it when I see it.

cages are a very wide branching subject. What exactly are they picking out on your cage? It's possible you're just on the edge of violating one of the rules.


A number of years ago a line was added to the rules that "it's strongly advised that drivers use SFI rated neck protection devices" (HANS). What do you know, next year they were mandatory. I suspect the same is true with fire suppression, we've been given a year to plan it into the budget, and it's coming.

I don't think Supression System requirements are coming for 2018.

This was Pagels quote when asked about rule changes for next year: "Some small tweaks, nothing major. Grandfathered in, welded-up, bolt in cages are gone after 2018."

#928 Porsche 928 - West German Pushrodders

Re: 2018 Rules Update: Class C cars will get to race for half price!

Ours has already been installed. Other leagues require them, same as window nets. Both make good sense.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

18 (edited by billybobster 2017-12-06 02:05 PM)

Re: 2018 Rules Update: Class C cars will get to race for half price!

Our fire suppression system went in mid-year. Fire bad.

We also swapped our seat for a full containment one. This after talking to a driver who was in a containment seat in a car-ending driver-side T-bone at a previous race. He was 100% OK. Not even neck muscle soreness the next day.

18X Loser - Delinquent Racing - '86 TRUMPACO Merkur - '18 Northworst, Pointless, '17 Freeze, Sweat, Pointless, '16 Pointless, Vodden, Sweat, Turrible, Freeze - '15 Vodden, Freeze. '96 Taurus SHO Skunk - '17 Vodden (Hope for the Future award - not me, rookies), '15 Pointless, Turrible. A&D w/Panting Polar Bears '17 Turrible, w/Pit Crew Revenge '18 Vodden. w/Flying Scotsman '18 Arse Freeze.

Re: 2018 Rules Update: Class C cars will get to race for half price!

TheEngineer wrote:

Just expect fire system mandates. history has shown that anytime they add "it's strongly advised" to the rules it becomes mandatory the following year.

Expect is fine, but I'm not buying until I see specifics in Black and White.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata.

Re: 2018 Rules Update: Class C cars will get to race for half price!

Mr.Yuck wrote:

What is "C" Class currently we are in "A" whatever that means.

It's where all the cool kids are laughing at people running around doing 2 min pitstops to win nickels.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata.

Re: 2018 Rules Update: Class C cars will get to race for half price!

VKZ24 wrote:
Spank wrote:

The rule that I would like is that every time a particular car with a particular team wins a class or an overall, they get an automatic 1 lap "penalty'. Win 5 overall races and they get 5 bs laps.

I'm all for this except the penalty laps should be much more.  If you are the overall race winner, you should get at least a 10 lap penalty for the next race.

I think they should just ramp up the shame. Multiple Class A winners should "win" less and less. I'm thinking special single broken triton V8 spark plug trophy.

Do something cool/inadvisable to an A class winning car like Save the Ta-Ta's did, you get a reset.
But keep dragging out the same Chump Car to play big fish in a small pond, earn laughs at your expense.

Reciprocally, I wouldn't mind a little shame back at the judges when a B class car finishes in the top 3.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata.

Re: 2018 Rules Update: Class C cars will get to race for half price!

Guildenstern wrote:
TheEngineer wrote:

Just expect fire system mandates. history has shown that anytime they add "it's strongly advised" to the rules it becomes mandatory the following year.

Expect is fine, but I'm not buying until I see specifics in Black and White.


Exactly. No one is saying a fire system isn't a good idea.

I'm saying (and I'm not the only one); I'm racing at Inde in 9 weeks or so. Could we see written specifics in time to respond to the rule changes as needed, please?

#888-Hong Kong Cavaliers Benz S500: formerly known as OMG Racing #140...
Judges Choice and Regional Award winner! Chuckwalla '12, Buttonwillow '13, BFE GP '15, Miller '14 & '15, Sonoma '13,'14,'15,'17, '18. Inde '16,'17,'18. Other foolishness: Finisher of the inaugural Lemons Rally, in the black Jag.... and IOE in the Super Snipe back in '12.

Re: 2018 Rules Update: Class C cars will get to race for half price!

VanillaHaze wrote:
TheEngineer wrote:

Just expect fire system mandates. history has shown that anytime they add "it's strongly advised" to the rules it becomes mandatory the following year.

I've been "strongly advised" the last two years by the rules and in person that my cage will become illegal. I'll believe it when I see it.

When you hear that assume it's code for "Something on you cage scares me, but is technically legal so I don't want to be a dick and make you fix it at the track."

Have they pointed to a specific thing?

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata.

Re: 2018 Rules Update: Class C cars will get to race for half price!

Type44 wrote:
Guildenstern wrote:
TheEngineer wrote:

Just expect fire system mandates. history has shown that anytime they add "it's strongly advised" to the rules it becomes mandatory the following year.

Expect is fine, but I'm not buying until I see specifics in Black and White.


Exactly. No one is saying a fire system isn't a good idea.

I'm saying (and I'm not the only one); I'm racing at Inde in 9 weeks or so. Could we see written specifics in time to respond to the rule changes as needed, please?

Yea, Barber's entry deadline is in 3 days. Seems odd to not have 2018's rules after the first race of 2018 is already locked. Perhaps this weekend is the big day?

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata.

Re: 2018 Rules Update: Class C cars will get to race for half price!

I wouldn't even consider trying to build a class C car.  We have been in A from the start even with a 4 cylinder automatic.  I have seen the same type of car be in both A and B at the same race so not worth it imho.