1 (edited by dougyd 2017-12-09 03:22 PM)

Topic: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

Hey all,
I have been wanting to start a team for awhile, along with my dad who is a VW mechanic. We went to the race in Sonoma last week to spectate and had a blast.
We have a car and are going to start prepping it soon, but I wanted to get your thoughts first. My dad bought a 2001 Jetta 2 liter for $250 and got it working for about $50 in parts. My concern is that there's no way we'll be able to make the car fast or handle well with the remaining $200 in the budget. At the race we went to, we saw so many miatas, BMWs, and other cars that seem fun to drive. Will we still have fun in our slow Jetta? It's a lot of money to race, and we want to make sure that it'll be fun and worth it.

Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

what are you wanting to achieve by participating?

Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

To have fun, drive around a race track, be goofy, and get my hands dirty working on a car!

Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

dougyd wrote:

To have fun, drive around a race track, be goofy, and get my hands dirty working on a car!

I didn't see 'going fast and passing everyone' in that list, so well worth it then. smile

Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

nimblemotorsports wrote:
dougyd wrote:

To have fun, drive around a race track, be goofy, and get my hands dirty working on a car!

I didn't see 'going fast and passing everyone' in that list, so well worth it then. smile

Agreed.

I spent many years in a car that was not Uber fast. We enjoyed making it as fast as we could, and competing against others like us. It was great fun.

My newer project is gonna be as fast as anything out there, but only because I want to try something new.

Many different ways to have fun in Lemons.

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Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

Is Lemons worth it in a slow car? I would say absolutely. I've driven some of the slowest cars in many of the races I have done over the years, and it's always been a blast. You'd be surprised how much joy can be had taking a car that had no sporty intentions and flogging it around a track with reckless abandon. And half of what makes Lemons great isn't the racing, but the commeratity that happens in the pits.

Also bear in mind that Lemons is a class race, with three races going on at the same time. These classes are basically determined by how fast or reliable your car and team is, at least theoretically. A car like your Jetta, depending on how cheaty it was prepped, would most likely end up in class B, the middle class. So even if you don't have the speed to keep up with the pointy end of the field, there is the possibility you could wind up with a class win. Also, a lower class win comes with a greater cash prize.

Fourteen time loser. You'd think I'd know better by now.

7 (edited by Guildenstern 2017-12-09 07:42 PM)

Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

The POINT of Lemons is slow cars.

Get a good parabolic race mirror though, not everyone understands the point.

Also I used to track day my 02 Golf 2.0l It's a fun enough car to take out on the track. Upgrade your brake pads. I always ended up driving home metal to metal from only 4 20 min stints.

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Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

If your expectations are set correctly you will have a blast.

If you show up and focus on the fact that you're being passed constantly, not running the racing line, and are sitting back half of the pack, you're going to not enjoy it. But if you focus on simply doing the best you can with what you've got, you'll have a blast. My first years in Lemons involved running a slow car. It was awesome. You learn driving skill a lot better in a slow car, since mistakes are more obvious without the HP to pull you out of it. Learn how to drive in your mirrors, and then go find cars matched to your speed, you'll have a blast battling them. Over time you'll make your car faster and your increasing skill will make you faster.

FWIW, that jetta shouldn't be that slow. I've seen some really quick VWs of that era. They were at the hands of some decent drivers, but they can still be fast cars. You'll have a platform with plenty of room to grow into.

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Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

TheEngineer wrote:

If your expectations are set correctly you will have a blast.

Learn how to drive in your mirrors, and then go find cars matched to your speed, you'll have a blast battling them. Over time you'll make your car faster and your increasing skill will make you faster.

This^^^^^

One of the best times in my life was driving a slow Class C car in a Lemons race.   Everyone was passing me, but one car passed me very slowly.   So slowly that I figured if I pushed myself just a little bit more I might be able to take back the position -- and I did!   Thus began a one-hour battle between me and one other car & driver.   There was an entire other race taking place around us, but all we cared about was each other.   Each pass made us each push ourselves just a little bit more.   At the end of my stint I ran over to the other team to find out who had been driving their car.   The two of us were just over the moon with excitement about our duel and vowed to do it again.

Yes, you can have an absolutely fantastic time in a slow car.

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

Also keep in mind that Sonoma attracts the fastest cars and teams.  There are plenty of other races in driving distance where it is not as crowded driving a slow car such as the Thunderhill 5 mile course, Buttonwillow, and the AZ race.

Team whatever_racecar #745 Volvo wagon

Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

TheEngineer wrote:

If your expectations are set correctly you will have a blast.

If you show up and focus on the fact that you're being passed constantly, not running the racing line, and are sitting back half of the pack, you're going to not enjoy it. But if you focus on simply doing the best you can with what you've got, you'll have a blast. My first years in Lemons involved running a slow car. It was awesome. You learn driving skill a lot better in a slow car, since mistakes are more obvious without the HP to pull you out of it. Learn how to drive in your mirrors, and then go find cars matched to your speed, you'll have a blast battling them. Over time you'll make your car faster and your increasing skill will make you faster.

FWIW, that jetta shouldn't be that slow. I've seen some really quick VWs of that era. They were at the hands of some decent drivers, but they can still be fast cars. You'll have a platform with plenty of room to grow into.

/agree

Slow cars can be fun. It isn't easy to turn fast laps in a slow car. It is a challenge worth mastering and it will make you better when you do get a fast car.

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Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

We "race" a 92 Jetta. Its not fast, but lowered and has sticky rubber. Corners better than it should and that makes it a sleeper. Passing faster cars at sonoma slinging it thru the corners is super fun. We trade position again in the straights but each has its advantage. Agree with above, the satisfaction of making a slow car go is pretty cool. Bearings, brakes, reliability, go out there and do it.

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Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

build it and go have fun. I'll wager you won't be the slowest on the track. Plenty of room to grow in a Jetta. Run consistent laps, and try no to break anything. You'll be surprised how far up you'll finish.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

IMHO the most fun is figuring out how to be faster than you are regardless of where you start. Take it to a race and see what happens. When you break stuff, figure out how to not break those things and you'll finish higher. When you crash, figure out how to not crash and next time you'll finish higher. When somebody turns laps 2 seconds faster than you in your car, learn what they're doing and next time you'll finish higher. When another Jetta blows your doors off, figure out what you can do to make the car faster and you'll finish higher.

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Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

Some people calculate the laps-per-dollars of a Lemons weekend. From that perspective, No.

From my perspective, a Jetta is not slow.

16

Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

I've only driven Lemons in slow cars and always had fun.  Driving a slow car at the limit is fun, and you'd be surprised how many fast cars you beat with a slow car.  Plus chances are you will be able to find someone that is about the same speed as you to play with which is always fun.

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Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

Spank wrote:

From my perspective, a Jetta is not slow.

That depends on whether dougyd has a Tecumseh engine for it.

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1980 KV Mini 1: Worst of Show and Fright Pig Supremo 2009 Concours d'Lemons
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Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

VanillaHaze wrote:

IMHO the most fun is figuring out how to be faster than you are regardless of where you start. Take it to a race and see what happens. When you break stuff, figure out how to not break those things and you'll finish higher. When you crash, figure out how to not crash and next time you'll finish higher. When somebody turns laps 2 seconds faster than you in your car, learn what they're doing and next time you'll finish higher. When another Jetta blows your doors off, figure out what you can do to make the car faster and you'll finish higher.


Or, in our case, give a seat to an SCCA veteran racer, watch him run 8 seconds a lap faster than our fastest driver, keeping Eyesore's Miata in the rear view mirror for several laps, and realize that given enough driving  talent, you can probably win in damn near any car, even a Jetta smile

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Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

Thanks for the responses everybody! I am definitely going to go ahead then. This is just what I was hoping to hear.

CowDriver wrote:

One of the best times in my life was driving a slow Class C car in a Lemons race.   Everyone was passing me, but one car passed me very slowly.   So slowly that I figured if I pushed myself just a little bit more I might be able to take back the position -- and I did!   Thus began a one-hour battle between me and one other car & driver.   There was an entire other race taking place around us, but all we cared about was each other.   Each pass made us each push ourselves just a little bit more.   At the end of my stint I ran over to the other team to find out who had been driving their car.   The two of us were just over the moon with excitement about our duel and vowed to do it again.

Yes, you can have an absolutely fantastic time in a slow car.

That's a great story; looking forward to having moments like that for myself!

Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

Its more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow.

21

Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

dougyd wrote:

Thanks for the responses everybody! I am definitely going to go ahead then. This is just what I was hoping to hear.

CowDriver wrote:

One of the best times in my life was driving a slow Class C car in a Lemons race.   Everyone was passing me, but one car passed me very slowly.   So slowly that I figured if I pushed myself just a little bit more I might be able to take back the position -- and I did!   Thus began a one-hour battle between me and one other car & driver.   There was an entire other race taking place around us, but all we cared about was each other.   Each pass made us each push ourselves just a little bit more.   At the end of my stint I ran over to the other team to find out who had been driving their car.   The two of us were just over the moon with excitement about our duel and vowed to do it again.

Yes, you can have an absolutely fantastic time in a slow car.

That's a great story; looking forward to having moments like that for myself!

And just as much fun is tracking down the guy in the car you were racing with after both your stints and relive it while you both talk about your epic battle that no else seemed to notice that it happened.

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Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

If you drive a fast car and don't win, you've failed. If you drive a slow car and survive, you've succeeded. Every year we get passed by hundreds of cars and every year we come home happy.

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Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

One other thing I forgot to mention: it's an automatic. mad Is that a big deal? I think we'll race it as-is this first time, then we'll consider doing a transmission swap depending on how it goes.

24

Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

add external trans cooler and you'll be fine-ish.

also add an external oil cooler, hell cool as many fluids as you can.

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2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
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Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

dougyd wrote:

One other thing I forgot to mention: it's an automatic. mad Is that a big deal?

Not at all.  It gives you one less thing to think about the first time you go out.

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"