Topic: Does paint count towards the budget?

Well does it?

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

Generally no.

I can't imagine a scenario where it would add performance, but there's always an exception to the rule in racing. If it looks "too nice," it might draw some additional scrutiny during BS Inspection, though.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

theme in general...not a budget item.  In fact, the more you spend on Latex paint, foam and rebar, the more you are likely to engage the judges.

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

Yeah... no.  10 years ago maybe.  Cars are now going through with full coilovers and not getting bs laps.

"We Got Screwed" NHMS 2017, 4th NHMS 2020,  4th NJMP 2021,
"Judges Choice" NHMS 2021,10th NJMP 2022, 3rd Thompson 2022
#847 Batmobile  aka-"Beulah"  search Squidrope Racing on Facebook

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

OnkelUdo wrote:

theme in general...not a budget item.  In fact, the more you spend on Latex paint, foam and rebar, the more you are likely to engage the judges.

So i'm probably just going to get a lot of crap for it. It is theme related but is professionally done, no foam or re-bar.
I am a collision tech and raided the paint cabinet . i would post a pic but can't figure it out and the help section was of no help.

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

http://i65.tinypic.com/f1mbmq.jpg

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

Nobody will give you crap for that, or any paint job. Show up with a high dollar paint job and you're just gambling with your efforts.

#33 Ford Festiva - We Are Not Really From Iran (Retired)
#928 Porsche 928 - West German Pushrodders (Retired)
#3 BMW E36 - The Internet says this is correct

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

I think it looks awesome man.  Carry on and don't give it a second thought.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

Beautiful fox. I would love to see the finished car.

Team Safety 3rd Racing.
1985 Dodge Daytona Turbo-currently being lemonized.
https://www.facebook.com/TeamSafety3rdRacing/

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

Cheater!!!   That paint job will cut your lap times by seconds, and intimidate the other drivers who won't want to put a scratch on it.   lol

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

Hanger 18 Customs wrote:

So i'm probably just going to get a lot of crap for it. It is theme related but is professionally done, no foam or re-bar.
I am a collision tech and raided the paint cabinet .

I am not sure I would know how to theme with rebar, iron pipe, OSB, foam and Tupperware..maybe the occasional flower pot.

Any crap you get will be good-nature ribbing.

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

I love it when people bring cars that look really nice.  Just because this is Lemons doesn’t mean we can’t have nice things...


Well.. generally.. yes it does.  But what I mean is it doesn’t mean people can’t start with having something looking nice.

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

Technically I think your theme counts towards you budget. Realistically I don't think I've ever seen anyone get sweated over that fact.

I too appreciate clean cars. Especially when they stay clean since it shows the team drives clean. Car looks good.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

Data point for reference - our $350 E36 (I swear!) has a full vinyl wrap, faux fur on the roof, and a spray foam beard covering the front fenders and bumper.  Knowing we'd face heavy scrutiny at BS I put together a very detailed build book with all the documentation for the original purchase and the stuff we chose to fix with dollar amounts and receipts.  Grand total was a couple bucks shy of $500.  I DID NOT include any budget allocation for theme materials, even though we'd quite obviously obviously spent money on them.  Zero penalty laps for that first race and none since.

If the car is cheaty AND looks nice they will probably use the niceness against you.  If the car is a legit $500 car and you show up for the first race with documentation and a good story, the fact that it looks nice shouldn't matter.

Electric Mayhem Racing

15 (edited by Hanger 18 Customs 2018-02-21 06:05 PM)

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

mgavro wrote:

If the car is cheaty AND looks nice they will probably use the niceness against you.  If the car is a legit $500 car and you show up for the first race with documentation and a good story, the fact that it looks nice shouldn't matter.

Yeah I think that this will be our main problem..

•    1985 Mustang notch back                                      Free-Wife’s cousin, non-op removed from apartment 
                                                                                                            Was going to be towed
•    Short block/ front accessories                             Free -Part-out/scrap of 1983 Mustang GT purchased for   
                                                                                                             $400. Sold parts/scrap $600. Profit $200
•    Rear end/k-member                                               Free -part-out/scrap of 1987 Mustang GT. Purchased for $300                             
                                                                                                        With no motor. Sold body shell for $400, sold AOD/parts                               
                                                                                                         For $250. Profit $350                                                                                                                         
•    World Class T-5                                                         Free- Bought 1985 GT mustang for $250. Sold roller for $600.
                                                                                                       Profit $350
•    $500 Lemons prep budget +$850 Profit off of parts cars =$1350


•    Fast E-Z EFI                                                                  $40  (Price of rebuild kit)traded for a 500 CFM Holley 2300. I
                                                                                                               Rebuilt the Carb, Fabricated an adapter plate, installed,
                                                                                                               and tuned on a YJ Wrangler.                                                     
•    Rear shocks                                                                 $70 new KYB

•    Struts                                                                            $50 used Jamex

•    Coil overs                                                                      $250 new Ground Pounder from CCM

•    Camber/caster plates                                                 $150 new Ground Pounder from CCM

•    MM strut tower brace                                                $150 new

•    Rear springs                                                                 $75 used

•    Heads/v covers/intake manifold/MSD box             $100 used from buddy cleaning out his garage

•    Plug wires                                                                       $29.99 new AutoZone

•    Plugs                                                                               $27.92 new AutoZone

•    Distributor                                                                     $12.95 new AutoZone

•    Cap/Rotor                                                                      $9.09 new AutoZone

•    Belt                                                                                  $19.49 new AutoZone

•    Motor/trans Mounts                                                    $135 new

•    Felpro gasket set                                                           $85.99 new AutoZone

•    Radiator hoses                                                                $27.48 new AutoZone

•    Headers                                                                            $75 Used swap meet



Total so far $1307.91 and that doesn't include some rear suspension stuff


I think we are in for a metric butt-ton of penalty laps. I have no documentation for ANY of it as i got the car in 2001 and have procrastinated on it for 17 years now. Doesn't matter though because our main goal is to have fun,finish(hopefully) and drink some beers after the track goes cold with the POS still running at the end.

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

East coast here, and sweated this stuff before.  After a 2 year break with my new "legit" build, I couldn't believe the stuff that got through tech with zero penalty laps.   I don't care if we win or lose.  I'm just doing this for track time.  But the "rules" have loosened up a lot in a couple of years.  My 2 cents.

"We Got Screwed" NHMS 2017, 4th NHMS 2020,  4th NJMP 2021,
"Judges Choice" NHMS 2021,10th NJMP 2022, 3rd Thompson 2022
#847 Batmobile  aka-"Beulah"  search Squidrope Racing on Facebook

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

There are lots of options for enduros these days.  Veteran teams with cars developed over 5+ years will not be scrutinized like a brand new car.  It keeps them from leaving Lemons to only run Chump, WRL or AER.   You can’t just show up with a built car not in the spirit of Lemons and expect no laps.  If you start with a “crappy” Class A car and develop it with residuals over several years (paying your dues sort of) you can have a car that would be given laps if you just show up the first race with it.  That’s the facts.

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

Hanger 18 Customs wrote:

http://i65.tinypic.com/f1mbmq.jpg

NICE!! Sure beats the can of flat black thing some people think is the height of design.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

TheEngineer wrote:

Technically I think your theme counts towards you budget. Realistically I don't think I've ever seen anyone get sweated over that fact.

I too appreciate clean cars. Especially when they stay clean since it shows the team drives clean. Car looks good.

The words "Paint" or "Theme" are nowhere in the rules anymore. "Prep" is considered mechanical work to go faster or longer.

Most of the High Theme teams spend more on the car and team theme than they do on prepping the car. Just the cost in used luggage and Spagetti-O's alone.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

TeamLemon-aid wrote:

There are lots of options for enduros these days.  Veteran teams with cars developed over 5+ years will not be scrutinized like a brand new car.  It keeps them from leaving Lemons to only run Chump, WRL or AER.   You can’t just show up with a built car not in the spirit of Lemons and expect no laps.  If you start with a “crappy” Class A car and develop it with residuals over several years (paying your dues sort of) you can have a car that would be given laps if you just show up the first race with it.  That’s the facts.

Also, those spent too much on go faster parts cars rarely win. Go faster parts plus out of shape middle aged guys = ow.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

TheEngineer wrote:

Technically I think your theme counts towards you budget. Realistically I don't think I've ever seen anyone get sweated over that fact.

I too appreciate clean cars. Especially when they stay clean since it shows the team drives clean. Car looks good.

I seem to recall the Killer Zombie getting docked a couple of laps for "nice tape" when they rethemed the one time, but I think that more of a joke than anything.

http://www.murileemartin.com/UG/LSPSa13/189-UG-Pointless13.jpg

Fourteen time loser. You'd think I'd know better by now.

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

Hanger 18 Customs wrote:
mgavro wrote:

If the car is cheaty AND looks nice they will probably use the niceness against you.  If the car is a legit $500 car and you show up for the first race with documentation and a good story, the fact that it looks nice shouldn't matter.

Yeah I think that this will be our main problem..

•    1985 Mustang notch back                                      Free-Wife’s cousin, non-op removed from apartment 
                                                                                                            Was going to be towed
•    Short block/ front accessories                             Free -Part-out/scrap of 1983 Mustang GT purchased for   
                                                                                                             $400. Sold parts/scrap $600. Profit $200
•    Rear end/k-member                                               Free -part-out/scrap of 1987 Mustang GT. Purchased for $300                             
                                                                                                        With no motor. Sold body shell for $400, sold AOD/parts                               
                                                                                                         For $250. Profit $350                                                                                                                         
•    World Class T-5                                                         Free- Bought 1985 GT mustang for $250. Sold roller for $600.
                                                                                                       Profit $350
•    $500 Lemons prep budget +$850 Profit off of parts cars =$1350


•    Fast E-Z EFI                                                                  $40  (Price of rebuild kit)traded for a 500 CFM Holley 2300. I
                                                                                                               Rebuilt the Carb, Fabricated an adapter plate, installed,
                                                                                                               and tuned on a YJ Wrangler.                                                     
•    Rear shocks                                                                 $70 new KYB

•    Struts                                                                            $50 used Jamex

•    Coil overs                                                                      $250 new Ground Pounder from CCM

•    Camber/caster plates                                                 $150 new Ground Pounder from CCM

•    MM strut tower brace                                                $150 new

•    Rear springs                                                                 $75 used

•    Heads/v covers/intake manifold/MSD box             $100 used from buddy cleaning out his garage

•    Plug wires                                                                       $29.99 new AutoZone

•    Plugs                                                                               $27.92 new AutoZone

•    Distributor                                                                     $12.95 new AutoZone

•    Cap/Rotor                                                                      $9.09 new AutoZone

•    Belt                                                                                  $19.49 new AutoZone

•    Motor/trans Mounts                                                    $135 new

•    Felpro gasket set                                                           $85.99 new AutoZone

•    Radiator hoses                                                                $27.48 new AutoZone

•    Headers                                                                            $75 Used swap meet



Total so far $1307.91 and that doesn't include some rear suspension stuff


I think we are in for a metric butt-ton of penalty laps. I have no documentation for ANY of it as i got the car in 2001 and have procrastinated on it for 17 years now. Doesn't matter though because our main goal is to have fun,finish(hopefully) and drink some beers after the track goes cold with the POS still running at the end.

Nahh you're fine mostly. They will sweat you for the Coil-overs, Strut Brace, and camber plates not hand crafted out of garbage. But worst you'll get is an evil grin and Class-A with no laps. Because You WON'T be winning.

Still, bring a good bribe.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

Winning? Man I'll be happy if it doesn't blow up.

24 (edited by Fishah 2018-02-21 10:57 PM)

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

You'll be fine. I don't see penalty laps in your future.

Btw, you will blow up. First timers always blow up. That's how you learn.

#33 Ford Festiva - We Are Not Really From Iran (Retired)
#928 Porsche 928 - West German Pushrodders (Retired)
#3 BMW E36 - The Internet says this is correct

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

Nahh, we went 2 full races on our 1988 era 5.0 before it gave up. Not super familiar with the pre ECC-IV 302's but I think those predated H.O.s so consider a 4,000 rpm redline. Especially if you have flat tappets.

Also be gentile with 1st and 2nd in that 85 WC. we have one of that year and they almost all have had the wrong lube put in them and the original WC friction material synchros for 1 and 2 die pretty hard deaths.

WHEN you rebuild it, put the Ford Motorsports Carbon fiber 1 and 2 parts in. And only ever put Mercon rated ATF in it. Avoid MTL! we halved what was left of the synchros life doing that one race. The Friction pads NEED ATF. Redline D4 is recommended by most T5 people. 

The best thing you can do is re-gear the rear end so that you primarily run 3-4 on the track. We went 3.55 and the meat of our speed range is 3rd and 4th gear now which are both standard brass synchro rings which shift better and smoother.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport