Topic: Wheel spacers good or bad?

Soooooo! we have been having the discussion in our shop on wheels and tires for our first Lemons car(new team as well).

The car came with 14" wheels and these are hard to find good tires at a fair price. I have purchased a set 17" wheels that I can get good tires at a good price, makes sense with the pocket book right? the 17" have a negative offset that would require 1.5" spacers in order to clear the Shocks etc. Keep in mind I have less than $125 in the wheels and spacers. which is why I did not seek correctly spaced wheels.

my Question is has anyone had issues running bolt on spacers? and what is everyone thoughts  on this?

Team Captain at Rust Belt Racing,IOE Pontiac Aztek with The Pit Crew Revenge,Organizers Choice 1956 Nash Metro With Cheesy beards Racing,IOE 1977 Toyota Celica S/T RBR,.SERVICE BY MANNY, MOE, AND JACK PIT CREW REVENGED AEWOO LEGANZA,Judges Choice Chevy HHR RBR

Re: Wheel spacers good or bad?

It would help if you posted the kind of car you have.
If the stock wheel was 14 going to a 17 may not be best.
The wheels may have been cheap but replacement tires won't be.
Also the change in over all diameter may hurt performance on track.

Re: Wheel spacers good or bad?

jimbbski wrote:

It would help if you posted the kind of car you have.
If the stock wheel was 14 going to a 17 may not be best.
The wheels may have been cheap but replacement tires won't be.
Also the change in over all diameter may hurt performance on track.

its a first Generation Celica, the 14" wheels that were on it were from a Datsun 240z I believe. the 17"s once on the car with the spacers look close to centered over the hub, I have about a fingers width of clearance from the coil to the tire.

Team Captain at Rust Belt Racing,IOE Pontiac Aztek with The Pit Crew Revenge,Organizers Choice 1956 Nash Metro With Cheesy beards Racing,IOE 1977 Toyota Celica S/T RBR,.SERVICE BY MANNY, MOE, AND JACK PIT CREW REVENGED AEWOO LEGANZA,Judges Choice Chevy HHR RBR

Re: Wheel spacers good or bad?

stangman4ever wrote:
jimbbski wrote:

It would help if you posted the kind of car you have.
If the stock wheel was 14 going to a 17 may not be best.
The wheels may have been cheap but replacement tires won't be.
Also the change in over all diameter may hurt performance on track.

its a first Generation Celica, the 14" wheels that were on it were from a Datsun 240z I believe. the 17"s once on the car with the spacers look close to centered over the hub, I have about a fingers width of clearance from the coil to the tire.


the car has a 9" ford rear end, stock hub and brake set up, up front. some kind of aftermarket coil over set up in the front suspension.

Team Captain at Rust Belt Racing,IOE Pontiac Aztek with The Pit Crew Revenge,Organizers Choice 1956 Nash Metro With Cheesy beards Racing,IOE 1977 Toyota Celica S/T RBR,.SERVICE BY MANNY, MOE, AND JACK PIT CREW REVENGED AEWOO LEGANZA,Judges Choice Chevy HHR RBR

Re: Wheel spacers good or bad?

I looked at using spacers and rejected them. Not all spacers are created equal but after locating a spacer that I thought would work I was then left with a wheel stud and lug issue. I was unwilling to use a stud and lug combination that engaged fewer threads than the stock lug, stud, wheel combination. The extra long studs and extended thread lugs available wouldn't solve the issue. I decided it just wasn't worth it and spent the extra money to buy wheels with the correct offset.

6 (edited by Fishah 2018-02-27 10:48 AM)

Re: Wheel spacers good or bad?

What do you mean by wheel spacers?

Wheel spacers like this:

http://cdn.roughcountry.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/w/h/wheel-spacers_1096-base.jpg

Are fine to use as long as they're only a few MM thick. 1.5" is too thick.

Wheel spacers like this:

https://turn5.scene7.com/is/image/Turn5/J12966?$enlarged810x608$

Are superior, but more expensive. 1.5" is fine here as long as you get a high quality, hub centric design. You may want to upgrade your wheel studs to be safe.

#33 Ford Festiva - We Are Not Really From Iran (Retired)
#928 Porsche 928 - West German Pushrodders (Retired)
#3 BMW E36 - The Internet says this is correct

Re: Wheel spacers good or bad?

Fishah wrote:

What do you mean by wheel spacers?

Wheel spacers like this:

http://cdn.roughcountry.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/w/h/wheel-spacers_1096-base.jpg

Are fine to use as long as they're only a few MM thick. 1.5" is too thick.

Wheel spacers like this:

https://turn5.scene7.com/is/image/Turn5/J12966?$enlarged810x608$

Are superior, but more expensive. 1.5" is fine here as long as you get a high quality, hub centric design. You may want to upgrade your wheel studs to be safe.

The second set, bolt on style.

when I got the car it had sat for about 10+ years, the lug studs on it were shot and about 4" long. I replaced them with high grade lugs and standard 1/2-20 pitch.

the spacers I have high grade (grade 5 I believe) studs in them. 4x114.3 bolt pattern to 4x114.3 bolt pattern. I get the full lug nut threaded on both the hub and the spacer. 1" ish

Team Captain at Rust Belt Racing,IOE Pontiac Aztek with The Pit Crew Revenge,Organizers Choice 1956 Nash Metro With Cheesy beards Racing,IOE 1977 Toyota Celica S/T RBR,.SERVICE BY MANNY, MOE, AND JACK PIT CREW REVENGED AEWOO LEGANZA,Judges Choice Chevy HHR RBR

Re: Wheel spacers good or bad?

Keep in mind that spacing the wheel out 1.5" will definitely increase the load on the wheel bearings.  I'd be OK with a few mm, but if I needed 1.5" I'd just get new wheels.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Wheel spacers good or bad?

VKZ24 wrote:

Keep in mind that spacing the wheel out 1.5" will definitely increase the load on the wheel bearings.  I'd be OK with a few mm, but if I needed 1.5" I'd just get new wheels.

we still have the 14" wheel option open, just hard to find a good tread wear tire in the size we want/need. 205/60r14 is the tire size we are looking at. 205/45r17 on the 17s

I did replace all the wheel bearings with SKF bearings and they are pretty cheap, plus I have spares in the box.

Team Captain at Rust Belt Racing,IOE Pontiac Aztek with The Pit Crew Revenge,Organizers Choice 1956 Nash Metro With Cheesy beards Racing,IOE 1977 Toyota Celica S/T RBR,.SERVICE BY MANNY, MOE, AND JACK PIT CREW REVENGED AEWOO LEGANZA,Judges Choice Chevy HHR RBR

Re: Wheel spacers good or bad?

If a 205 width is all you need, why not a 15" wheel? Better gearing, lighter, lower CoG, cheaper tires, etc..

But to answer your question, we use bolt on spacers with no problems.

Re: Wheel spacers good or bad?

ross2004 wrote:

If a 205 width is all you need, why not a 15" wheel? Better gearing, lighter, lower CoG, cheaper tires, etc..

But to answer your question, we use bolt on spacers with no problems.

Honestly, the fact I have less than 125 in the wheels and spacers, tires we are looking at are just under 300 shipped to my door.

Team Captain at Rust Belt Racing,IOE Pontiac Aztek with The Pit Crew Revenge,Organizers Choice 1956 Nash Metro With Cheesy beards Racing,IOE 1977 Toyota Celica S/T RBR,.SERVICE BY MANNY, MOE, AND JACK PIT CREW REVENGED AEWOO LEGANZA,Judges Choice Chevy HHR RBR

12 (edited by jimbbski 2018-02-27 02:24 PM)

Re: Wheel spacers good or bad?

If cost is the issue then you're really not thinking this through.
The wheels and tires are your connection to the ground/track.
If there's any failure there the results won't be pretty!

If your want to cheap out on something this is not the area to do so.

Why do you think Lemons does not include the cost of tires or wheels as part of the $500 budget?
So that you can buy wheels that fit your car and are strong enough to hold up to the abuse of racing.

Re: Wheel spacers good or bad?

What tires are you getting in 205/45/17 at 300? Also, running 195/60/14 isn't a bad place to start; although it limits you to aszenis. Given that this is a new car, I wouldn't recommend getting hung up on tires. Make sure that the car is running well and getting developed before you start going for big tire gains.

Owner of the Knights Templar Neon
A&D of middling proportions

Re: Wheel spacers good or bad?

All in all,

This is our first Build as a team, other than myself none of the guys on the team have driven a road course(with the exception of Overzet Flying IN).The Idea here is to get a car on the track safely. we are not going to go out and win any races any time soon.
The plan is to find out if this car will have any longevity to it as a Lemons car. After each race, Learn, fix, upgrade and then focus on winning once everyone has some more experience. All that being said expensive tires and or wheels are on the bottom of this list for race #1. Safety and learning are on top of the list for race #1. as far as the spacers being a safe option it sounds 50/50 and that was and is the information we are looking for, but still an undecided out come. I think we will install the wheels with the spacers next week and just do some road testing on them and see how they feel, if they feel funky we will most likely just stick with the 14". Thanks everyone for the input and keep it coming please!

Team Captain at Rust Belt Racing,IOE Pontiac Aztek with The Pit Crew Revenge,Organizers Choice 1956 Nash Metro With Cheesy beards Racing,IOE 1977 Toyota Celica S/T RBR,.SERVICE BY MANNY, MOE, AND JACK PIT CREW REVENGED AEWOO LEGANZA,Judges Choice Chevy HHR RBR

Re: Wheel spacers good or bad?

VanillaHaze wrote:

What tires are you getting in 205/45/17 at 300? Also, running 195/60/14 isn't a bad place to start; although it limits you to aszenis. Given that this is a new car, I wouldn't recommend getting hung up on tires. Make sure that the car is running well and getting developed before you start going for big tire gains.

Riken Raptor ZR, 300 tread wear tire sold through tire rack. actually found these via a few threads here on the forums. both positive and negative reviews here.

Team Captain at Rust Belt Racing,IOE Pontiac Aztek with The Pit Crew Revenge,Organizers Choice 1956 Nash Metro With Cheesy beards Racing,IOE 1977 Toyota Celica S/T RBR,.SERVICE BY MANNY, MOE, AND JACK PIT CREW REVENGED AEWOO LEGANZA,Judges Choice Chevy HHR RBR

Re: Wheel spacers good or bad?

We have been running 2" bolt on spacers on our F-Body since we started racing (back in 2011). We have not had any problems with them, on a fast Class A car that regularly finishes in the Top 10. Use quality lug studs and check your bearings each day after the race (which you should be doing regardless of whether or not you run spacers) and you'll be fine.

Sorry For Party Racing! - 1985 Pontiac Firebird - Car #35

A race car exists only in two states: broken or in the process of becoming that way.

Re: Wheel spacers good or bad?

VKZ24 wrote:

Keep in mind that spacing the wheel out 1.5" will definitely increase the load on the wheel bearings.  I'd be OK with a few mm, but if I needed 1.5" I'd just get new wheels.

This is a common misconception.

If you have a wheel with a zero offset, and it requires a 1.5 inch spacer to fit, the load on the wheel bearing is the same as if you had a like size wheel with a negative 1.5 inch offset.

The rubber and contact patch is at the same place with relation to the bearing. Hence no difference in load or torsion.

88 Festiva  -  Damn Tree!!!
"We Are Not Really From Iran" Festiva  -  Motor and Trans to be anounced

Re: Wheel spacers good or bad?

fitsbain wrote:

This is a common misconception.

If you have a wheel with a zero offset, and it requires a 1.5 inch spacer to fit, the load on the wheel bearing is the same as if you had a like size wheel with a negative 1.5 inch offset.

The rubber and contact patch is at the same place with relation to the bearing. Hence no difference in load or torsion.

That's true unless you're using spacers to push the wheel out in order to fit a wider wheel/tire combo under the car. For example, If you have a factory setup in which there is .5" of clearance between the suspension and inside of the tire, and you want to go to a wider tire and maintain the same .5" clearance between tire and suspension, you are effectively moving the wheel/tire outwards with respect to the hub/bearing, altering the loading.

Sorry For Party Racing! - 1985 Pontiac Firebird - Car #35

A race car exists only in two states: broken or in the process of becoming that way.

Re: Wheel spacers good or bad?

piper.gras wrote:
fitsbain wrote:

This is a common misconception.

If you have a wheel with a zero offset, and it requires a 1.5 inch spacer to fit, the load on the wheel bearing is the same as if you had a like size wheel with a negative 1.5 inch offset.

The rubber and contact patch is at the same place with relation to the bearing. Hence no difference in load or torsion.

That's true unless you're using spacers to push the wheel out in order to fit a wider wheel/tire combo under the car. For example, If you have a factory setup in which there is .5" of clearance between the suspension and inside of the tire, and you want to go to a wider tire and maintain the same .5" clearance between tire and suspension, you are effectively moving the wheel/tire outwards with respect to the hub/bearing, altering the loading.

I will end up with the exact same clearance as I had with the 14" wheel and tire. one finger width from tire to spring. Tape measure says my finger is 1/2" thick.

Team Captain at Rust Belt Racing,IOE Pontiac Aztek with The Pit Crew Revenge,Organizers Choice 1956 Nash Metro With Cheesy beards Racing,IOE 1977 Toyota Celica S/T RBR,.SERVICE BY MANNY, MOE, AND JACK PIT CREW REVENGED AEWOO LEGANZA,Judges Choice Chevy HHR RBR

Re: Wheel spacers good or bad?

It seems that the hella flush stance world is helping us old school Toyota teams out a bit here, I am seeing more and more 15 and 16 inch multi fit 4 stud wheels with zero offset for sale on Ebay and other cheap wheel places.

This sort of thing... https://www.ebay.com/itm/MST-WHEELS-MT1 … mp;vxp=mtr

https://www.ebay.com/itm/15x8-MST-Time- … mp;vxp=mtr

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
24x Loser with the Celica. 16x loser in other fine machines
Overall winner Gingerman 2019

Re: Wheel spacers good or bad?

Brett85p wrote:

It seems that the hella flush stance world is helping us old school Toyota teams out a bit here, I am seeing more and more 15 and 16 inch multi fit 4 stud wheels with zero offset for sale on Ebay and other cheap wheel places.

This sort of thing... https://www.ebay.com/itm/MST-WHEELS-MT1 … mp;vxp=mtr

https://www.ebay.com/itm/15x8-MST-Time- … mp;vxp=mtr

Those white Time Attacks! only 2 left though bummer.

Team Captain at Rust Belt Racing,IOE Pontiac Aztek with The Pit Crew Revenge,Organizers Choice 1956 Nash Metro With Cheesy beards Racing,IOE 1977 Toyota Celica S/T RBR,.SERVICE BY MANNY, MOE, AND JACK PIT CREW REVENGED AEWOO LEGANZA,Judges Choice Chevy HHR RBR

Re: Wheel spacers good or bad?

We run bolt-on 1.25 or 1.5" wide spacers on our 4000 pound LTD.  Power is from a 460 big block making ~350 HP. 

We broke exactly one spacer, and that was due to improper installation.  Make sure you use the correct lug nuts! 

Spacers cost ~$50 each for good, bolt on ones.  We run spacers because it was nearly impossible to find the right wheel/ bolt pattern/offset for our car.  Ended up with jeep wheels, which just have a different offset (easily fixed with the spacers)

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

Re: Wheel spacers good or bad?

piper.gras wrote:
fitsbain wrote:

This is a common misconception.

If you have a wheel with a zero offset, and it requires a 1.5 inch spacer to fit, the load on the wheel bearing is the same as if you had a like size wheel with a negative 1.5 inch offset.

The rubber and contact patch is at the same place with relation to the bearing. Hence no difference in load or torsion.

That's true unless you're using spacers to push the wheel out in order to fit a wider wheel/tire combo under the car. For example, If you have a factory setup in which there is .5" of clearance between the suspension and inside of the tire, and you want to go to a wider tire and maintain the same .5" clearance between tire and suspension, you are effectively moving the wheel/tire outwards with respect to the hub/bearing, altering the loading.

Yes

If the wheel is to get wider, you increase the load.

I was answering VKZ24. He said instead of a 1.5" spacer, he would get a wheel with better offset.

88 Festiva  -  Damn Tree!!!
"We Are Not Really From Iran" Festiva  -  Motor and Trans to be anounced

Re: Wheel spacers good or bad?

We've been running the same pair of 1.5" bolt-on billet aluminum spacers for 4 years and 11 races, plus some occasional street driving. Ours aren't even hub-centric, and we use 5x115 wheels on 5x114.3 hubs. We've never had an issue with this setup. We preemptively replace front wheel bearings along with the integral rotors every 4 or 5 races, but the old bearings always look fine.

It's possible that we're just lucky, or that we enjoy the simple blessings of Solid Detroit Iron™.

Re: Wheel spacers good or bad?

stangman4ever wrote:
piper.gras wrote:
fitsbain wrote:

This is a common misconception.

If you have a wheel with a zero offset, and it requires a 1.5 inch spacer to fit, the load on the wheel bearing is the same as if you had a like size wheel with a negative 1.5 inch offset.

The rubber and contact patch is at the same place with relation to the bearing. Hence no difference in load or torsion.

That's true unless you're using spacers to push the wheel out in order to fit a wider wheel/tire combo under the car. For example, If you have a factory setup in which there is .5" of clearance between the suspension and inside of the tire, and you want to go to a wider tire and maintain the same .5" clearance between tire and suspension, you are effectively moving the wheel/tire outwards with respect to the hub/bearing, altering the loading.

I will end up with the exact same clearance as I had with the 14" wheel and tire. one finger width from tire to spring. Tape measure says my finger is 1/2" thick.


Just don't make the same mistake I did:

1987 Honda Prelude: original 13 inch wheels, tire  185/70R13 (+35 offset)....I went to 225/45R15 BFG RIval non S tires
With 15 inch rims, 7 wide, +10 offset
And they stuck out...."Aw, c'mon, just a little bit"....so when I showed up the race, tech made me make new wheel fenders....

So, make sure if you get spacer and have your tire/wheel stick out more, make sure the fenders go beyond the outer edge of the tire...

MarioKart Driving School: 1987 Honda Prelude Si (Opus #28) 
Loudon, NH 2014 - Millville, NJ, Lightening 2019 (RIP)
New and improved: 1987 Honda Prelude Si (Opus #11) Pittsburgh, PA 2021 - ??
and finally won something, Class C Win: Loudon, NH 2022