• From: Phoenix az
  • Registered: 2017-12-29
  • Posts: 145

Re: getting an e46 out of class A

Man I had a blue 89 Jetta 1.6D before I tuned up the injection pump 65 mph was the top speed. After the tune up I got it to 80 going down a hill.

I have plenty of vw engines laying around but there's no rear wheel drive trans options that I know of.

The om617 turbo would be great but there's nearly no manual trans options and I just don't think the auto would hold up.

I might have to come up with some sort or adapter plates.

Owner/Captain of The 27 Club E46. Phoenix, AZ
and now the #95 Thunderbird

52 Reply by DirtyDuc (edited by DirtyDuc 2018-03-30 02:42 PM)

  • From: Newport News, VA
  • Registered: 2015-12-23
  • Posts: 620

Re: getting an e46 out of class A

Audi AWD. Or Audi fwd installed in the rear, ala Porsche 924/944.

Or... There's a way to adapt a t-5, a la Volvo.

That guy
  • Registered: 2009-07-19
  • Posts: 1,585

Re: getting an e46 out of class A

Sexy jesus wrote:

The om617 turbo would be great but there's nearly no manual trans options and I just don't think the auto would hold up.

The OM617 autos hold up very well. I can think of two that have won class C in races that I have been in, and they are notoriously reliable under race abuse. In the US, every W123 240D came with a manual that bolts right up to the OM617; it's what we race and our last two finishes have been 3rd and 2nd. They also came on European manual W123 300Ds, which we've seen several of in the US.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!
  • From: Phoenix az
  • Registered: 2017-12-29
  • Posts: 145

Re: getting an e46 out of class A

Do you run the 4 speed behind a om617 turbo? (om617a?) I have seen that done but wasn't sure running a trans built for 60hp would hold up behind an engine making twice that and I'm sure 3 times the torque. that being said I might be able to source one. All the phoenix hipsters are really driving the prices up though.

Owner/Captain of The 27 Club E46. Phoenix, AZ
and now the #95 Thunderbird
  • Registered: 2009-07-19
  • Posts: 1,585

Re: getting an e46 out of class A

We do. We started with a manual 240D at NCM and swapped a junkyard OM617 turbo engine into it, keeping the 240D transmission and using the 300D differential. We'd heard that the manuals were less robust that the autos, but it's been four races and it's been flawless. We were planning to replace it with an auto if it ever fails, but it's shown no signs of malfunction. We change out the oil every race with good trans oil, and try to baby it as much as we can, but we finished 3rd in C at Road Atlanta and 2nd in C at Barber, so we're on pace for our class.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!
  • From: Life's great in 21158
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 3,361

Re: getting an e46 out of class A

Fortunately, most hipsters can't drive stick.  240D prices are really weird- you either find nice cars that people ask "I NO WUT I GOT" money for, or you pick up slightly tattered ones for what the monthly payment would be on a new Benz.  My current DD is a '83 240D (last year of the 240D) with a 4 speed, with 300,000 miles on it, that I paid $750 for.  It starts and runs great, even in the winter.  The 4 speed shifts flawlessly, too.  P/O loaded the gearbox up with Redline oil, which I'm sure helped. 

The 4 cyl is pokey (as Duff Beer will attest to) but I replaced the mechanical fan with an electric one from a Miata and run 50 cetane in it, and it's OK.  Top end on flat ground with no wind is about 80 mph.  Keeping the valves adjusted is probably the single biggest way to keep them running the best.

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

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Re: getting an e46 out of class A

mechimike wrote:

My current DD is a '83 240D ... The 4 cyl is pokey (as Duff Beer will attest to)

I'm so sorry. "pokey" is being generous.

We took the 240+60D to Sandblast rally. It was dead last, of course, but not by that much! And yes, the valves were miles off. It might have bad rings in one cyl. And turns out they were running "without" the turbo -- the the vinyl fishtank airhose we rigged up at RA melted.

Duff Beer Civic (#128) -- 2014 Sebring - Class B (#1 of 7), 2016 Barber - Class B
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  • From: Life's great in 21158
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 3,361

Re: getting an e46 out of class A

jfbeam wrote:
mechimike wrote:

My current DD is a '83 240D ... The 4 cyl is pokey (as Duff Beer will attest to)

I'm so sorry. "pokey" is being generous.

We took the 240+60D to Sandblast rally. It was dead last, of course, but not by that much! And yes, the valves were miles off. It might have bad rings in one cyl. And turns out they were running "without" the turbo -- the the vinyl fishtank airhose we rigged up at RA melted.

So, what I'm hearing is, with a valve adjustment, some Marvel's Oil, and the turbo connected, it's gonna DOMINATE!

My wife gets exasperated with me when I drive her Suburban.  Being so used to using the throttle as a binary control on my car, when I get into her 'Burban and pull out onto our road, I've been known to leave black marks on the pavement while re-calibrating my foot to the plethora of power.

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

mechimike's Website

  • From: Phoenix az
  • Registered: 2017-12-29
  • Posts: 145

Re: getting an e46 out of class A

I have a friend who has daily driven his 240 for at least 8 years other then  a 220d I think it's all he has ever driven. He recently moved up to a 300sd because his wife was tired of him not having ac. That being said. The SD ac isn't working. The 240ds made my 1.6D Jetta look like a race car. I just don't get it....

Owner/Captain of The 27 Club E46. Phoenix, AZ
and now the #95 Thunderbird
  • Registered: 2009-07-19
  • Posts: 1,585

Re: getting an e46 out of class A

mechimike wrote:

So, what I'm hearing is, with a valve adjustment, some Marvel's Oil, and the turbo connected, it's gonna DOMINATE!

We are going to CMP to win in April. We've got our serious race car driver faces on and everything:
http://www.carolinahondas.com/members/roger-albums-pj-picture6745-race-car-111.jpg

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!
  • From: Life's great in 21158
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 3,361

Re: getting an e46 out of class A

Sexy jesus wrote:

I have a friend who has daily driven his 240 for at least 8 years other then  a 220d I think it's all he has ever driven. He recently moved up to a 300sd because his wife was tired of him not having ac. That being said. The SD ac isn't working. The 240ds made my 1.6D Jetta look like a race car. I just don't get it....

The thing about the W123 chassis is it's just about perfect as a car.  It's big enough that it'll fit people and stuff, and small enough that it's maneuverable and not hard to drive.  Visibility is terrific.  Handling is extremely predictable, and the ride is decent.  Brakes work great and the feel is very good.  It's just an all-round good car, other than the fact that it's slow.  Once you make peace with that fact, the car has a lot going for it.  Some might even say it's "handsome". 

Someday, I will sneak a 200 to 300 HP engine into one of these, fit up a decent A/C system, and have a lot of fun.

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

mechimike's Website

  • Registered: 2009-07-19
  • Posts: 1,585

Re: getting an e46 out of class A

And it's brutally tough and the mechanical injection power plant is unbelievably simple. It just keeps working correctly through hundreds of thousands of miles of whatever abuse you want to heap on it and never dies or leaves you stranded.

After racing other cars, I love the W123. We are like Pepe LePew, always back there behind you waiting for you to make a mistake or get tired so we can catch you, except without the rapey vibe that the cartoon had. We just want to pass you.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!
  • From: Phoenix az
  • Registered: 2017-12-29
  • Posts: 145

Re: getting an e46 out of class A

mechimike wrote:
Sexy jesus wrote:

I have a friend who has daily driven his 240 for at least 8 years other then  a 220d I think it's all he has ever driven. He recently moved up to a 300sd because his wife was tired of him not having ac. That being said. The SD ac isn't working. The 240ds made my 1.6D Jetta look like a race car. I just don't get it....

The thing about the W123 chassis is it's just about perfect as a car.  It's big enough that it'll fit people and stuff, and small enough that it's maneuverable and not hard to drive.  Visibility is terrific.  Handling is extremely predictable, and the ride is decent.  Brakes work great and the feel is very good.  It's just an all-round good car, other than the fact that it's slow.  Once you make peace with that fact, the car has a lot going for it.  Some might even say it's "handsome". 

Someday, I will sneak a 200 to 300 HP engine into one of these, fit up a decent A/C system, and have a lot of fun.

Currently doing an 5.3 vortec swap into one myself..that being said things have kinda stalled. long story short my friend got ripped off on the eBay engine and Transmission he bought.

Owner/Captain of The 27 Club E46. Phoenix, AZ
and now the #95 Thunderbird
  • From: Phoenix az
  • Registered: 2017-12-29
  • Posts: 145

Re: getting an e46 out of class A

rmcdaniels wrote:

And it's brutally tough and the mechanical injection power plant is unbelievably simple. It just keeps working correctly through hundreds of thousands of miles of whatever abuse you want to heap on it and never dies or leaves you stranded.

After racing other cars, I love the W123. We are like Pepe LePew, always back there behind you waiting for you to make a mistake or get tired so we can catch you, except without the rapey vibe that the cartoon had. We just want to pass you.

Just hahaha.

Owner/Captain of The 27 Club E46. Phoenix, AZ
and now the #95 Thunderbird
  • From: Life's great in 21158
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 3,361

Re: getting an e46 out of class A

rmcdaniels wrote:

And it's brutally tough and the mechanical injection power plant is unbelievably simple. It just keeps working correctly through hundreds of thousands of miles of whatever abuse you want to heap on it and never dies or leaves you stranded.

After racing other cars, I love the W123. We are like Pepe LePew, always back there behind you waiting for you to make a mistake or get tired so we can catch you, except without too much of the rapey vibe that the cartoon had. We just want to pass you.

The only time a W123 left me stranded was a freak event when the guibo on the driveshaft shredded itself and took out the driveshaft and transmission, and mangled up the floor pan.  So, you know, keep an eye on that guibo.

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

mechimike's Website

  • From: Life's great in 21158
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 3,361

Re: getting an e46 out of class A

Sexy jesus wrote:
mechimike wrote:
Sexy jesus wrote:

I have a friend who has daily driven his 240 for at least 8 years other then  a 220d I think it's all he has ever driven. He recently moved up to a 300sd because his wife was tired of him not having ac. That being said. The SD ac isn't working. The 240ds made my 1.6D Jetta look like a race car. I just don't get it....

The thing about the W123 chassis is it's just about perfect as a car.  It's big enough that it'll fit people and stuff, and small enough that it's maneuverable and not hard to drive.  Visibility is terrific.  Handling is extremely predictable, and the ride is decent.  Brakes work great and the feel is very good.  It's just an all-round good car, other than the fact that it's slow.  Once you make peace with that fact, the car has a lot going for it.  Some might even say it's "handsome". 

Someday, I will sneak a 200 to 300 HP engine into one of these, fit up a decent A/C system, and have a lot of fun.

Currently doing an 5.3 vortec swap into one myself..that being said things have kinda stalled. long story short my friend got ripped off on the eBay engine and Transmission he bought.

Sounds like a sweet swap.  I've thought about doing a Ford Windsor swap into one, mostly for the compactness of the engine and the front distributor.  And because I have a 302 coupled to a T5 sitting on my garage floor just begging to go into something.

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

mechimike's Website

  • Registered: 2009-07-19
  • Posts: 1,585

Re: getting an e46 out of class A

Yep, we proactively replaced our guibo when we were doing bushings, bearings, and ball joints.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!
  • From: Columbus, OH
  • Registered: 2009-05-26
  • Posts: 2,839

Re: getting an e46 out of class A

I think a Pontiac 455 with a TH400 trans would be the ticket.

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  • From: Houston, TX
  • Registered: 2012-06-21
  • Posts: 1,608

Re: getting an e46 out of class A

Sexy jesus wrote:

The om617 turbo would be great but there's nearly no manual trans options and I just don't think the auto would hold up.

I might have to come up with some sort or adapter plates.

Oddly enough, there actually is an easy Jeep swap for this. Brett Holdaway (Lemons racer in Colorado) has an OM617 in a lifted Jeep Comanche with (I think) the original transmission. Apparently there is an adapter for this somewhere, but I don't know where or how expensive.

Escape Velocity Racing
  • Registered: 2009-07-19
  • Posts: 1,585

Re: getting an e46 out of class A

SpaceFrank wrote:
Sexy jesus wrote:

The om617 turbo would be great but there's nearly no manual trans options and I just don't think the auto would hold up.

I might have to come up with some sort or adapter plates.

Oddly enough, there actually is an easy Jeep swap for this. Brett Holdaway (Lemons racer in Colorado) has an OM617 in a lifted Jeep Comanche with (I think) the original transmission. Apparently there is an adapter for this somewhere, but I don't know where or how expensive.

Wow, I just found the kits for that, they've got all kinds of adapters:

http://www.mercedesdiesel4x4.com/category_s/1840.htm

Okay, that gives me an idea for something really stupid.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!
  • From: Phoenix az
  • Registered: 2017-12-29
  • Posts: 145

Re: getting an e46 out of class A

Yeah I have seen those. Was considering one for a Jeep build that will never happen.

Owner/Captain of The 27 Club E46. Phoenix, AZ
and now the #95 Thunderbird
  • Registered: 2017-05-10
  • Posts: 43

Re: getting an e46 out of class A

Sexy jesus wrote:
RandolphCarter wrote:
Sexy jesus wrote:


Fallback engine is a great idea. But 4g546g blah blah blah. I know not of what you speak. I come from German car roots.

2.6 liter inline 4 engine used in various Mitsubishi models from 1978 to 1997 and Chrysler K-cars and their derivatives between 1981 and 1987.

Used in RWD, FWD, and AWD setups.

1978-1980 Plymouth Fire Arrow
1978-1983 Dodge Challenger/Mitsubishi Sapporo/Plymouth Sapporo
1978-1986 Mitsubishi Debonair
1979-1989 Dodge Ram 50
1980-1987 Chrysler/Mitsubishi Sigma
1981-1985 Dodge Aries/Plymouth Reliant
1982-1985 Chrysler LeBaron
1982-1985 [[Chrysler Town and Country (pre-1990)|Chrysler Town and Country]]
1982-1991 Mitsubishi Pajero
1982-1983 Dodge 400
1982-1990 Mitsubishi Starion (turbocharger and fuel injection)
1983-1984 Chrysler E-Class
1983-1985 Chrysler New Yorker/Dodge 600
1984-1987 Dodge Caravan/Plymouth Voyager
1984-1986 Dodge Conquest/Plymouth Conquest (turbocharger and fuel injection)
1985 Plymouth Caravelle
1985-1996 Mitsubishi Magna (1985-1996 TM-TS series carburetor; 1987-1996 TP-TS series fuel injection)
1986-1989 Mazda B2600
1987-1989 Chrysler Conquest (turbocharger and fuel injection)
1987-1989 Dodge Raider

I suspect that using any K car drivetrain will go a loooooong way to ensuring class C entry.


Ok good info. What are the rear drive manual trans options?

Easiest to find would probably be something from one of the small pickups - the Dodge D-50 or Mitsubishi Mighty Max. A quick and VERY casual bit of googling suggests the Mitsubishi KM132 and KM145 5 speed manual transmissions were the options.

These engines also came in Mitsubishi Starions / Chrysler Conquests, which were RWD. Some have TURBOS, so you can DETONATE!  Er, I mean DOMINATE!

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Re: getting an e46 out of class A

RandolphCarter wrote:
Sexy jesus wrote:
RandolphCarter wrote:

2.6 liter inline 4 engine used in various Mitsubishi models from 1978 to 1997 and Chrysler K-cars and their derivatives between 1981 and 1987.

Used in RWD, FWD, and AWD setups.

1978-1980 Plymouth Fire Arrow
1978-1983 Dodge Challenger/Mitsubishi Sapporo/Plymouth Sapporo
1978-1986 Mitsubishi Debonair
1979-1989 Dodge Ram 50
1980-1987 Chrysler/Mitsubishi Sigma
1981-1985 Dodge Aries/Plymouth Reliant
1982-1985 Chrysler LeBaron
1982-1985 [[Chrysler Town and Country (pre-1990)|Chrysler Town and Country]]
1982-1991 Mitsubishi Pajero
1982-1983 Dodge 400
1982-1990 Mitsubishi Starion (turbocharger and fuel injection)
1983-1984 Chrysler E-Class
1983-1985 Chrysler New Yorker/Dodge 600
1984-1987 Dodge Caravan/Plymouth Voyager
1984-1986 Dodge Conquest/Plymouth Conquest (turbocharger and fuel injection)
1985 Plymouth Caravelle
1985-1996 Mitsubishi Magna (1985-1996 TM-TS series carburetor; 1987-1996 TP-TS series fuel injection)
1986-1989 Mazda B2600
1987-1989 Chrysler Conquest (turbocharger and fuel injection)
1987-1989 Dodge Raider

I suspect that using any K car drivetrain will go a loooooong way to ensuring class C entry.


Ok good info. What are the rear drive manual trans options?

Easiest to find would probably be something from one of the small pickups - the Dodge D-50 or Mitsubishi Mighty Max. A quick and VERY casual bit of googling suggests the Mitsubishi KM132 and KM145 5 speed manual transmissions were the options.

These engines also came in Mitsubishi Starions / Chrysler Conquests, which were RWD. Some have TURBOS, so you can DETONATE!  Er, I mean DOMINATE!

What about the 4 banger they used in Dakota's? That was a decent engine

"get up and get your grandma outta here"
  • From: NH
  • Registered: 2010-01-20
  • Posts: 3,299

Re: getting an e46 out of class A

A clarification to the above. The Mitubishi 4G5 (astron) engine was used in some of the k-cars and derivatives, but it was replaced by Chrysler's own 2.2/2.5 eventually for just about all of it's FWD cars. if you wanted to go that route you'd need to decide which engine you wanted to go with.

The Mitubishi 4G5 was used in a number of RWD applications, so picking one up and dropping it in would be easy.

The Chrysler 2.2/2.5 was used almost exclusively in FWD. The exception was a couple years of the dakota which mated it to an 2WD AX15.


I'm in the middle of dropping a Chrysler 2.2/2.5 into an E36 FWIW.

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Re: getting an e46 out of class A

You find your Goldwing...'cause if not.  https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/it … 2576793291