Topic: Paddock Parking Courtesy

As the midwest races start to attract 100+ cars parking in the paddock is becoming a little cramped so let's all be a little courteous.
I mean surely a one car team doesn't need 4-5 spaces! We were one five teams across 6 spaces, we made it work despite being a bit cramped but seriously if you want to bring your RV and massive tent and a crew of 12 people with support vehicles go park your asses on the grass!

Also while ranting, don't go parking in front of other peoples trailers, that's just being a dick.

Otherwise fun albeit wet and cold weekend!

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
24x Loser with the Celica. 16x loser in other fine machines
Overall winner Gingerman 2019

Re: Paddock Parking Courtesy

Sorry about parking in front of your trailer, but I didn't exactly have a lot of options...

Owner of the Knights Templar Neon
A&D of middling proportions

Re: Paddock Parking Courtesy

VanillaHaze wrote:

Sorry about parking in front of your trailer, but I didn't exactly have a lot of options...

Not you Owen, I recognized babe and knew I could get in/out. It happened Saturday as well.

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
24x Loser with the Celica. 16x loser in other fine machines
Overall winner Gingerman 2019

Re: Paddock Parking Courtesy

This tends to be more of a problem at the asphalt expanse paddocks like Joliet. There seems to be more spread for some reason. Probably because it looks bigger than it is compaired to a road and dirt planned out paddock. You tend to see a lot less parked longwise trailers and such.

It doesn’t help that the whole Jolliet facility is a bit form over substance but I guess that works for country club tracks.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Paddock Parking Courtesy

I guess what makes it even more inconsiderate is that the grass spots by the south track are so deep you  could probably have 4 full size rvs plus cars and tents in a spot 2 car widths.

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
Facebook Page

Re: Paddock Parking Courtesy

The asphalt spots are plenty deep as well. We fit the toter home/stacker with room for the racecar in front of it. There's no reason why somebody would need to put a 4 spot wide canopy an extra spot over so they had room between the canopy and their trailer.

Owner of the Knights Templar Neon
A&D of middling proportions

Re: Paddock Parking Courtesy

Agreed.

Some teams really overstepped their "carbon footprint" this weekend in regards to floor space. I propose one lap penalty for every foot over 20 feet of frontage that a single car teams consumes.

The Pentastar whisperer

Re: Paddock Parking Courtesy

This is one area where some "traditional" racing groups do it better. They have paddock stewards who "police" this and keep things fair.

Re: Paddock Parking Courtesy

Perhaps it's time to have a fresh look at the People's Curse? Perhaps some teams need the fear of Jay put back into them.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Paddock Parking Courtesy

jimbbski wrote:

This is one area where some "traditional" racing groups do it better. They have paddock stewards who "police" this and keep things fair.

Or at least get their Authority Addiction rocks off. A lot of people avoid "Traditional" racing groups because of those kinds of folks. They have an inevitable and unfortunate tendency to trend to the petty and arbitrary.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Paddock Parking Courtesy

One of the (many) reasons we stopped going to Summit Point was the angst caused by paddock crowding.

12 (edited by VKZ24 2018-04-17 06:48 AM)

Re: Paddock Parking Courtesy

Brett85p wrote:

Also while ranting, don't go parking in front of other peoples trailers, that's just being a dick.!

I think *most* of the people who are racing know not to do this, but their friends and family still don't seem to get it.  They think any place there car will fit is OK to park. 

The last time we had someone park in front of our trailer we blocked them in.  They weren't too happy about it, and had  no idea that they had done anything wrong.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Paddock Parking Courtesy

Guildenstern wrote:
jimbbski wrote:

This is one area where some "traditional" racing groups do it better. They have paddock stewards who "police" this and keep things fair.

Or at least get their Authority Addiction rocks off. A lot of people avoid "Traditional" racing groups because of those kinds of folks. They have an inevitable and unfortunate tendency to trend to the petty and arbitrary.

I think your misunderstanding what I'm getting at.  At most Club races the number of "racers" is way less then a Lemons race. I club race and a good turnout is 100+  competitors. We also have less then 100+ drivers and cars since many racers run in more then one race group. They also don't bring a team of 6-12 crew, plus friends, & family. The bottom line is for a average club race the paddock is nowhere near as crowded as for a Lemons race. The only time "paddock stewards" are used or needed is for the "big" SCCA races like the June Sprints, or the Run Offs.

Most of the crowding is caused by street cars that are not "race support vehicles" in the paddock. Move them to the parking area where "spectators" are required to park and your problems would be reduced and perhaps gone completely.

And lets now go there regarding "Authority Addiction"  Lemons is one of the most arbitrary racing groups around. The entry requirements are low but the penalty for any infraction is "what ever they want to do". No re-course. They make the penalties up as they go. Not a complaint just an observation comparing them to "other" racing groups.

Re: Paddock Parking Courtesy

So let me know if I'm being a dick about this, but if you get to the track early, then you can't reserve a big block of prime real estate for your five other friends who who won't be arriving until later, sometimes even a full day later. I get really sick of getting to the track early and having big sections of paddock area taped or roped off for some other teams that will be arriving at some unspecified later time or date (and sometimes they don't show up at all). Then when I remove the tape or move the cones or whatever they did to block the space off and move in to set up, people act like I'm the bad guy. I've even had them call the track staff to report me removing their tape and parking in the spot they wanted for their friends. I've had this happen at Lemons races and at NASA races.

And while we're on the subject, the same goes for power outlets; first come is first served, unless it's some place like NCM, where you pay for and reserve specific powered spaces in advance (which I really like).

The notable exception to this is for Terminally Confused when they do a big BBQ dinner at CMP; they should get a big spot right in the middle of everything, because free delicious smoked pig.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: Paddock Parking Courtesy

rmcdaniels wrote:

So let me know if I'm being a dick about this, but if you get to the track early, then you can't reserve a big block of prime real estate for your five other friends who who won't be arriving until later, sometimes even a full day later. I get really sick of getting to the track early and having big sections of paddock area taped or roped off for some other teams that will be arriving at some unspecified later time or date (and sometimes they don't show up at all). Then when I remove the tape or move the cones or whatever they did to block the space off and move in to set up, people act like I'm the bad guy. I've even had them call the track staff to report me removing their tape and parking in the spot they wanted for their friends. I've had this happen at Lemons races and at NASA races.

And while we're on the subject, the same goes for power outlets; first come is first served, unless it's some place like NCM, where you pay for and reserve specific powered spaces in advance (which I really like).

The notable exception to this is for Terminally Confused when they do a big BBQ dinner at CMP; they should get a big spot right in the middle of everything, because free delicious smoked pig.

I don't have an issue with his as long as the spots are used and its not excessive amount of spaces per car, from my experience with multiple teams we tend to use less space combined as we will have a communal eating area and bring less crap as generators, welders and often drivers are shared between the teams.

This past weekend as I mentioned in the original post I was part of a five car group using six spaces, 4/5 were there within an hour of the gates opening and the 5th was Derek, he made it in time for Tech Saturday morning......The rest of our group parked five cars in less than five spaces across the way on the grass.

It was a bit annoying to find that all the prime spots were already roped off by members that were racing or for friends of members but I guess $40k and another $5k a year buys you that at Autobahn. Autobahn is one of those tracks where we fuel in the paddock so a good spot does have a small effect on your pit stop time.

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
24x Loser with the Celica. 16x loser in other fine machines
Overall winner Gingerman 2019

Re: Paddock Parking Courtesy

Judge Phil wrote:

One of the (many) reasons we stopped going to Summit Point was the angst caused by paddock crowding.

Which is a shame because the Shenandoah bowl made a great paddock for after hours.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Paddock Parking Courtesy

jimbbski wrote:

Most of the crowding is caused by street cars that are not "race support vehicles" in the paddock. Move them to the parking area where "spectators" are required to park and your problems would be reduced and perhaps gone completely.

Another reason to shun country club tracks where spectator accomodations tend to be afterthoughts most of the time if they exist at all.

jimbbski wrote:

And lets now go there regarding "Authority Addiction"  Lemons is one of the most arbitrary racing groups around. The entry requirements are low but the penalty for any infraction is "what ever they want to do". No re-course. They make the penalties up as they go. Not a complaint just an observation comparing them to "other" racing groups.

Feature, not bug. Arbitrary punishment is fine if there isn’t the illusion of having a say. Lemons is an absolute Jay-tatorship and that’s a good thing. No voting on rules, or complaint hearings, or other work flavored “fun”. It’s part of the disincentive system of avoiding penalties (which are all clear, consistant, and concise) in the first place.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

18 (edited by MZAVARIN 2018-04-17 02:08 PM)

Re: Paddock Parking Courtesy

Feature, not bug. Arbitrary punishment is fine if there isn’t the illusion of having a say. Lemons is an absolute Jay-tatorship and that’s a good thing. No voting on rules, or complaint hearings, or other work flavored “fun”. It’s part of the disincentive system of avoiding penalties (which are all clear, consistant, and concise) in the first place.







I think Jay does a good job at being a "Benevolent Dictator", like many have on their Lemons team

MarioKart Driving School: 1987 Honda Prelude Si (Opus #28) 
Loudon, NH 2014 - Millville, NJ, Lightening 2019 (RIP)
New and improved: 1987 Honda Prelude Si (Opus #11) Pittsburgh, PA 2021 - ??
and finally won something, Class C Win: Loudon, NH 2022

Re: Paddock Parking Courtesy

We had a team park their enclosed trailer in the grass side of the paddock but they were actually on the asphalt across from track off. It made it a tight fit for us but we survived.

Newest member - White Trash Racing
Owner of the Traveling Hat

Re: Paddock Parking Courtesy

rmcdaniels wrote:

So let me know if I'm being a dick about this, but if you get to the track early, then you can't reserve a big block of prime real estate for your five other friends who who won't be arriving until later, sometimes even a full day later. I get really sick of getting to the track early and having big sections of paddock area taped or roped off for some other teams that will be arriving at some unspecified later time or date (and sometimes they don't show up at all). Then when I remove the tape or move the cones or whatever they did to block the space off and move in to set up, people act like I'm the bad guy. I've even had them call the track staff to report me removing their tape and parking in the spot they wanted for their friends. I've had this happen at Lemons races and at NASA races.

And while we're on the subject, the same goes for power outlets; first come is first served, unless it's some place like NCM, where you pay for and reserve specific powered spaces in advance (which I really like).

The notable exception to this is for Terminally Confused when they do a big BBQ dinner at CMP; they should get a big spot right in the middle of everything, because free delicious smoked pig.

We didn't used to grab too much space.  But managing a couple hundred people through our paddock spot on Saturday night, while trying to serve food and fix our car proved a little tough in a standard amount of space.

I do agree with first come first served.  These days the track staff at CMP tapes off a spot and holds our power plug, but we still get in line early on Thursday.  I'd fully expect Roger to take our spot if we rolled in mid-day Friday, and I wouldn't blame him if he did.

Apparently my name is really "Craigers".  Who knew?
We might be yellow, but at least we are slow
I'm a WINNER!

Re: Paddock Parking Courtesy

Conversely, one can argue that those paddock groupings end up saving space.  Instead of having 7 separate cars taking 7 paddock spaces, it seems like you end up with something like those 7 cars take up 4 paddock spots.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

22 (edited by Spank 2018-04-18 11:08 AM)

Re: Paddock Parking Courtesy

I'm ok with space saving. I'm the recipient of that favor more often than I'm the one doing the saving. So yea, I'm that dick and I'm sorry if I've ticked you off because I couldn't arrive until some time after tech opens (I've been doing better about arriving before tech closes at least)

We here on the West Coast have our own Terminally Confused-esque chowline with Amanda. She feeds several teams for the entire weekend and typically the first affiliated team to arrive to the track will try to save her (and her CrazyMike) space because she works on Fridays and doesn't arrive until it is time to prepare dinner for 50-100+ people. HQ is also kept fed while they are at the track, so having proximity to them is also desirable.

Alan Frisbee, who is now retired, has been very gracious in the past with his personal time, arriving early and saving spots for Amanda-affiliated teams. He also brings at least one jug of hand cleaner to leave in the bathrooms, and brings lots of oft-needed supplies and tools for others to borrow, even when he is not drivng. Others I'm indebted to include Anton, Wendy, Overzet, Cheseroo, Q, FyremanBill, Robb and a host of others who have allowed me to squeeze in here and there.

Some of us run multi-car efforts whereby many cars captained by different owners share multitudes of drivers across all the cars, and we benefit greatly from the car owner who arrives first to save spots for those of us who have to drive at least 10 hours to arrive at the second closest track to our homes.

So yea, I'm biased.

But I also have been on the flip side where I was told, "I don't care if you brought 3 cars, you only get 1 team spot. The 10x20 spots are PER TEAM, dude."

Your post is a good reminder we all need to be courteous and not take more space than absolutely necessary, even if we're saving space for an affiliated team.

Re: Paddock Parking Courtesy

And then there are people who take perfectly good garage spaces and turn them into a house.

http://www.murileemartin.com/UG/LAF16/1 … _6864.html

Team whatever_racecar #745 Volvo wagon

24 (edited by Guildenstern 2018-04-18 03:57 PM)

Re: Paddock Parking Courtesy

Or a Shantytown Castle with a moat!
http://www.murileemartin.com/LNL09/LNL09-1490.jpg

To be fair, Nelson Ledges provided the moat for free!

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Paddock Parking Courtesy

So here's the thing; if you really need a bunch of space for your team and various hangers-on, then don't try to grab all of the spaces nearest the track that everyone wants. I don't care if you grab half an acre out behind the showers at CMP, but grabbing all of the spaces up front where I can see the track and respond quickly to issues with the car, get refueling supplies out quickly, etc, seems very inconsiderate to me. Those spaces are the reason that I make the extra effort to get to the track early.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!