Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

Your hotlap on your first race was 21 seconds faster than our hot lap at Gingerman in our 4th year of racing. Damn.

Planet Express
"IOE" "C Win" 4834.701 Race Miles and counting
Toyocedes
"Least Southern Pickup Truck" "IOE" "C win" "C win (again?)"

527 (edited by darkostoj 2018-10-15 03:10 PM)

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

chaase wrote:
TheEngineer wrote:

I'd agree with knock back being your brake issue. When you're mentally ready to deal with the car again, try something out. Drive it down a long straight somewhere and see if the pedal goes soft. Then take some corners hard and check again. If the pedal stays fine going straight but goes soft after some hard turns, check wheel bearings. It's a common sign that one might be going if the pads get pushed out under hard turns, basically the hub is being allowed to flex and push on the pads. If it's going soft just going straight it might be a warped rotor or a rotor with build up on it. But I think you'd notice that under heavy braking as a pulsing pedal.

We went through knock back issues with the Rover and did a number of things to help address it.  The brakes are fine now but there were scary moments at times. Wheel bearings need to be tight. We ended up putting special springs behind the brake pistons and a residual pressure valve in the brake line. It keeps something like 2 psi on the line. Not enough to activate the brakes but keeps them close to the pad when you let off.


Would you say the springs helped more or the valve helped more?

Don't they use those valves on drum brake setups?  That is actually really clever.  I think I might try that.

2018 Where the Elite Meet to Cheat - Organizer's Choice Award
2019 Rust Belt GP - Spirit of Entropy Award
2019 The Tony Swan Never-Say-Die Memorial - Index of Effluency Award
2020 The Tony Swan Never-Say-Die Memorial - Class C Lap Winner

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

bulletpruf wrote:
DirtyDuc wrote:

Thanks for the madness, I hope it doesn't end here.

^^^THIS!!!

When is the next race???

I was thinking either Barber in Alabama or Indie in AZ

2018 Where the Elite Meet to Cheat - Organizer's Choice Award
2019 Rust Belt GP - Spirit of Entropy Award
2019 The Tony Swan Never-Say-Die Memorial - Index of Effluency Award
2020 The Tony Swan Never-Say-Die Memorial - Class C Lap Winner

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

darkostoj wrote:
bulletpruf wrote:
DirtyDuc wrote:

Thanks for the madness, I hope it doesn't end here.

^^^THIS!!!

When is the next race???

I was thinking either Barber in Alabama or Indie in AZ

I vote for AZ, for entirely selfish reasons. Man, I want to witness the insanity of that thing on track. Looking forward to getting passed like I'm going backwards!

Tradewinds Tribesmen Racing (The road goes on forever…)
#289 1984 Corvette Z51 #124 1984 944 #110 2002 Passat
Gone but not forgotten, #427-Hong Kong Cavaliers Benz S500
IOE (Humber!) Hell on Wheels (Jaguar)

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

Type44 wrote:
darkostoj wrote:
bulletpruf wrote:

^^^THIS!!!

When is the next race???

I was thinking either Barber in Alabama or Indie in AZ

I vote for AZ, for entirely selfish reasons. Man, I want to witness the insanity of that thing on track. Looking forward to getting passed like I'm going backwards!

+1 haha

#33 Ford Festiva - We Are Not Really From Iran (Retired)
#928 Porsche 928 - West German Pushrodders (Retired)
#3 BMW E36 - The Internet says this is correct

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

https://youtu.be/Utj73IiLiZ4

2018 Where the Elite Meet to Cheat - Organizer's Choice Award
2019 Rust Belt GP - Spirit of Entropy Award
2019 The Tony Swan Never-Say-Die Memorial - Index of Effluency Award
2020 The Tony Swan Never-Say-Die Memorial - Class C Lap Winner

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

Fishah wrote:
Type44 wrote:
darkostoj wrote:

I was thinking either Barber in Alabama or Indie in AZ

I vote for AZ, for entirely selfish reasons. Man, I want to witness the insanity of that thing on track. Looking forward to getting passed like I'm going backwards!

+1 haha

+2!! Bring it to AZ!!!

That guy

533 (edited by chaase 2018-10-15 05:00 PM)

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

darkostoj wrote:
chaase wrote:
TheEngineer wrote:

I'd agree with knock back being your brake issue. When you're mentally ready to deal with the car again, try something out. Drive it down a long straight somewhere and see if the pedal goes soft. Then take some corners hard and check again. If the pedal stays fine going straight but goes soft after some hard turns, check wheel bearings. It's a common sign that one might be going if the pads get pushed out under hard turns, basically the hub is being allowed to flex and push on the pads. If it's going soft just going straight it might be a warped rotor or a rotor with build up on it. But I think you'd notice that under heavy braking as a pulsing pedal.

We went through knock back issues with the Rover and did a number of things to help address it.  The brakes are fine now but there were scary moments at times. Wheel bearings need to be tight. We ended up putting special springs behind the brake pistons and a residual pressure valve in the brake line. It keeps something like 2 psi on the line. Not enough to activate the brakes but keeps them close to the pad when you let off.


Would you say the springs helped more or the valve helped more?

Don't they use those valves on drum brake setups?  That is actually really clever.  I think I might try that.

Yes. On drum brakes you use a higher PSI valve.  I couldn't say which helped more because we did them all at once. Manny, our mechanic in chief, did a bunch of reading on the subject and came up with that plan to fix the Rover braking issues. He gets full credit for figuring this out. Rover brakes are a complete custom setup so we had a lot of teething pains. We got to the point of spongy pedal for people. The people, like me,  that did the quick brake tap, didn't notice it as much while the others had some moments with a high pucker factor.

Summit Racing sells the parts. We use Wilwood because those are our calipers. I think Brembo sells similar springs too.
Wilwood Caliper Spring
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil- … /overview/

Residual Valve
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rus-654010/overview/

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C x2 and IOE winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

darkostoj wrote:
chaase wrote:
TheEngineer wrote:

I'd agree with knock back being your brake issue. When you're mentally ready to deal with the car again, try something out. Drive it down a long straight somewhere and see if the pedal goes soft. Then take some corners hard and check again. If the pedal stays fine going straight but goes soft after some hard turns, check wheel bearings. It's a common sign that one might be going if the pads get pushed out under hard turns, basically the hub is being allowed to flex and push on the pads. If it's going soft just going straight it might be a warped rotor or a rotor with build up on it. But I think you'd notice that under heavy braking as a pulsing pedal.

We went through knock back issues with the Rover and did a number of things to help address it.  The brakes are fine now but there were scary moments at times. Wheel bearings need to be tight. We ended up putting special springs behind the brake pistons and a residual pressure valve in the brake line. It keeps something like 2 psi on the line. Not enough to activate the brakes but keeps them close to the pad when you let off.


Would you say the springs helped more or the valve helped more?

Don't they use those valves on drum brake setups?  That is actually really clever.  I think I might try that.

They are technically required with any sliding caliper system with the master under the highest point of the caliper...so many uses.

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

OnkelUdo wrote:
darkostoj wrote:
chaase wrote:

We went through knock back issues with the Rover and did a number of things to help address it.  The brakes are fine now but there were scary moments at times. Wheel bearings need to be tight. We ended up putting special springs behind the brake pistons and a residual pressure valve in the brake line. It keeps something like 2 psi on the line. Not enough to activate the brakes but keeps them close to the pad when you let off.


Would you say the springs helped more or the valve helped more?

Don't they use those valves on drum brake setups?  That is actually really clever.  I think I might try that.

They are technically required with any sliding caliper system with the master under the highest point of the caliper...so many uses.

The master cylinders are lower than the highest point of the caliper, but its a fixed caliper.  I wonder if this fixes it.

2018 Where the Elite Meet to Cheat - Organizer's Choice Award
2019 Rust Belt GP - Spirit of Entropy Award
2019 The Tony Swan Never-Say-Die Memorial - Index of Effluency Award
2020 The Tony Swan Never-Say-Die Memorial - Class C Lap Winner

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

In the absence of the President, Series Owner, or Chief Judge, by the privilege of the association, I hereby call the meeting to order.
A quorum has been established.
A motion is on the floor.

BE IT RESOLVED:
   WHEREAS Documentation of the efforts preparing this particular vehicle has been presented [even setting aside the fantastic video of the experience linked in post #531 above], AND,
   WHEREAS Entry into a 24HOL race has between made, AND,
   WHEREAS Lap[s] have been completed,

I HEREBY MOVE:
That this thread be reclassified into the 'Epic Build' section without delay, as a result of the detailed build notes in this thread.

Is there a second to the motion on the floor?

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

I second the motion.

That guy

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

darkostoj wrote:
OnkelUdo wrote:
darkostoj wrote:

Would you say the springs helped more or the valve helped more?

Don't they use those valves on drum brake setups?  That is actually really clever.  I think I might try that.

They are technically required with any sliding caliper system with the master under the highest point of the caliper...so many uses.

The master cylinders are lower than the highest point of the caliper, but its a fixed caliper.  I wonder if this fixes it.

Not sure as I did not do the original research...just a recipiet of it.  Likely will help but could actually become problematic if you do have a hub flex or bearing wobble issue (I assume).

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

darkostoj wrote:
OnkelUdo wrote:
darkostoj wrote:

Would you say the springs helped more or the valve helped more?

Don't they use those valves on drum brake setups?  That is actually really clever.  I think I might try that.

They are technically required with any sliding caliper system with the master under the highest point of the caliper...so many uses.

The master cylinders are lower than the highest point of the caliper, but its a fixed caliper.  I wonder if this fixes it.

Think about it.  Air in the system will go to the highest point.  If the calipers are higher than the master cylinder reservoir, then the air will eventually work its way to the calipers, causing spongy brakes.  Keeping residual pressure in the lines prevents the air from entering the pressurized part of the system.

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:

In the absence of the President, Series Owner, or Chief Judge, by the privilege of the association, I hereby call the meeting to order.
A quorum has been established.
A motion is on the floor.

BE IT RESOLVED:
   WHEREAS Documentation of the efforts preparing this particular vehicle has been presented [even setting aside the fantastic video of the experience linked in post #531 above], AND,
   WHEREAS Entry into a 24HOL race has between made, AND,
   WHEREAS Lap[s] have been completed,

I HEREBY MOVE:
That this thread be reclassified into the 'Epic Build' section without delay, as a result of the detailed build notes in this thread.

Is there a second to the motion on the floor?

DirtyDuc wrote:

I second the motion.

I move to amend the motion by APPENDING the following verbiage to said motion:
       AND,
       WHEREAS this particular vehicle was acclaimed by the race organizers as being worthy of the esteemed "Organizer's Choice" award,

Is there a second to the motion to amend the motion on the floor?







Also, sweet Jesus I read this site to ESCAPE FROM work, why are meeting minutes and procedures following me here.



Ahem.

Please continue.

541

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

darkostoj wrote:
bulletpruf wrote:
DirtyDuc wrote:

Thanks for the madness, I hope it doesn't end here.

^^^THIS!!!

When is the next race???

I was thinking either Barber in Alabama or Indie in AZ


Barber in February because I will be there and get to witness this beast in action!

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

542 (edited by chaase 2018-10-16 06:00 AM)

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

RandolphCarter wrote:
Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:

In the absence of the President, Series Owner, or Chief Judge, by the privilege of the association, I hereby call the meeting to order.
A quorum has been established.
A motion is on the floor.

BE IT RESOLVED:
   WHEREAS Documentation of the efforts preparing this particular vehicle has been presented [even setting aside the fantastic video of the experience linked in post #531 above], AND,
   WHEREAS Entry into a 24HOL race has between made, AND,
   WHEREAS Lap[s] have been completed,

I HEREBY MOVE:
That this thread be reclassified into the 'Epic Build' section without delay, as a result of the detailed build notes in this thread.

Is there a second to the motion on the floor?

DirtyDuc wrote:

I second the motion.

I move to amend the motion by APPENDING the following verbiage to said motion:
       AND,
       WHEREAS this particular vehicle was acclaimed by the race organizers as being worthy of the esteemed "Organizer's Choice" award,

Is there a second to the motion to amend the motion on the floor?

Seconded

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C x2 and IOE winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

Just another day at the track, watching a bunch of guys bump-start a V10 powered Rolls Royce:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=18Nn3- … d6wsFsWeab

The Pentastar whisperer

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

darkostoj wrote:

Organizers Choice Trophy

81 Total laps

1:53 best lap WITH ONE GEAR (best that weekend was 1:44)

https://i.imgur.com/gRh5CrD.jpg

As the Organizer's Choice has already been awarded [which seemed like a 'gimme' to me from the beginning], the motion to Amend the motion is denied by the acting chair as moot.

The acting Chair hereby calls the vote on the motion as originally stated:

MOTION: That this thread be reclassified into the 'Epic Build' section without delay, as a result of the detailed build notes in this thread.

545

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

Opposed.(for now)

That's a dead section of the forum for dead topics: It's an archive of sorts.

This... THIS is ACTIVE!

Plus, a bunch of links to this on FB would fail because it's been redirected/moved.

546

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

If this won Org's choice, does this mean there was a more Heroic Fix than this?

547 (edited by chaase 2018-10-16 08:52 AM)

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

Emyr wrote:

If this won Org's choice, does this mean there was a more Heroic Fix than this?

An engine swap swap and some re-welding doesn't always get you a heroic fix. I don't think i've seen a Lemons race w/o a team or two doing an engine swap.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C x2 and IOE winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

Emyr wrote:

If this won Org's choice, does this mean there was a more Heroic Fix than this?

Yes. Team crashed. Used tree to straighten car and returned to race.

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

rlchv70 wrote:
Emyr wrote:

If this won Org's choice, does this mean there was a more Heroic Fix than this?

Yes. Team crashed. Used tree to straighten car and returned to race.

One of our heroic fixes was similar. We used two SUV's and some chain to play tug of war on the body of the Saturn at Thompson a few years ago. We had to do an engine swap, repair a sticking caliper and deal with a fire extinguisher that decided to go off-while on track during the same weekend.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C x2 and IOE winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

Spank wrote:

Opposed.(for now)

That's a dead section of the forum for dead topics: It's an archive of sorts.

This... THIS is ACTIVE!

Plus, a bunch of links to this on FB would fail because it's been redirected/moved.

Ok, you have made good points, however, for your consideration:

I thought "Epic Builds" was a place of honor for those builds so magnificent, and so illustrative, of the spirit of Lemons, that they were given a place where they would be easily found for newcomers [it's where I went first, to: K-it-forward], and posterity, there being so few of them.

It'd be a shame for this to be lost/hard-to-find for newcomers in "Lemons Tech".

So I'm going to suggest that if it _eventually_ gets moved to "Epic Builds" and links break, then putting it off until later, while "the iron's hot right now", just kicks the "crapcan" [I had to do it] down the road.

I think it's better to make permalinks as early as possible.

And I think this earned "Epic" already.

And, so long as this is "Active", it'll show up in that list, and "New Posts" as well, so it'll be easy to find until the novelty wears off [... as if that would ever happen ...].

Besides, Facebook won't be around that long, anyway....