Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

What ended up breaking?

How's the homemade rear suspension feel now that you've gotten it out?

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Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

TheEngineer wrote:

What ended up breaking?

How's the homemade rear suspension feel now that you've gotten it out?

The oil filter got a random hole in it? Very strange.

The rear suspension? I dunno, it's kinda scary how complicated it is and how many failure points there are. It seemed ok, but I'm worried. 14 hours of endurance racing is a big ask.

Team Pacific Motors - 1977 Rolls Royce Silver Wraith

2018 Where the Elite Meet to Cheat - Organizer's Choice Award
2019 Rust Belt GP - Spirit of Entropy Award

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

14 hours will be a proving ground for sure. But if you took the car out and didn't immediately go "oh crap that does not feel right at all!", that's a good first step. It looks well thought out from what I can see. Good luck with it, I hope it just holds together all weekend.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Turbo Dodge Powered E36 Build
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729 (edited by darkostoj 2019-06-26 04:51 AM)

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

I was just looking at the rule changes and there was one that stated the battery had to be held down by a strap that went over the top of it. This is the mounting bracket I have. Do you guys think it will be ok? It's super sturdy and solid.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41c0XB0JTQL._AC_SY400_.jpg

Team Pacific Motors - 1977 Rolls Royce Silver Wraith

2018 Where the Elite Meet to Cheat - Organizer's Choice Award
2019 Rust Belt GP - Spirit of Entropy Award

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

No, you need one over the top as well. Bunch of us got caught by it that were relying on OEM bottom mount brackets. Easy option is to just weld on a strap to those side brackets that goes over the top, so when you suck down the bottom brackets it also pulls the top strap tight.

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Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

TheEngineer wrote:

No, you need one over the top as well. Bunch of us got caught by it that were relying on OEM bottom mount brackets. Easy option is to just weld on a strap to those side brackets that goes over the top, so when you suck down the bottom brackets it also pulls the top strap tight.

I emailed John Pagel, he said that heavy duty aftermarket metal mounts are OK.

Team Pacific Motors - 1977 Rolls Royce Silver Wraith

2018 Where the Elite Meet to Cheat - Organizer's Choice Award
2019 Rust Belt GP - Spirit of Entropy Award

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

I'm not sure who has heard, but some more bad luck at the last race.

Engine spun a rod bearing in practice.  Swapped the engine out Friday night and had everything ready to run Saturday morning for the start of the race only to realize somehow the engine computer fried.  We had a full 12v going to the Cyl #7 & #8 Injector plugs causing the cylinders to flood and hydrolock.  Through diagnosing the pin outs on the ECU found it to be faulty.  We hung out the rest of the weekend trying to somehow get the car running but gave up early Sunday.

We won the Spirit of Entropy award. aka participation award for sucking the hardest.

After doing much research found the factory oil pump in the Viper engine's can't handle long periods of sustained high RPM and will start to cavitate and lose oil pressure. Looks like the permanent fix is a dry sump...which is super lame. 

So, I guess the options for the car are either to work at the oil system or swap to another engine.

decisions....

Team Pacific Motors - 1977 Rolls Royce Silver Wraith

2018 Where the Elite Meet to Cheat - Organizer's Choice Award
2019 Rust Belt GP - Spirit of Entropy Award

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

I saw 12v to injectors and thought...Cummins.

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

That Ferrari V-8 still in the shop?

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata.

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

darkostoj wrote:

I'm not sure who has heard, but some more bad luck at the last race.

Engine spun a rod bearing in practice.

darkostoj wrote:

It broke.

https://i.imgur.com/Cvv8vyH.jpg

A previous post proved prescient...

Sorry you're not having much fun at the track. The build has been a blast to follow.

bb

736

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

Did someone say Dry Sump?

https://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/view … p?id=17617

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

Building a car from basically scratch always has teething problems.


Lemons grade dry sump wouldn't be that much more complicated than anything else you've done.
A ferrari V8 would be great for internet hate points, though I wonder how much fun the electronics would be on that.....
Maybe worth considering a slightly more mundane option to up the chances of turning laps while you plan out and test a more exciting one?

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
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Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

Often exciting builds like this end up being more exciting for everyone else and the builder suffers.  Having said that, when things finally come together and you have success, it will be worth it.   

Our BMW powered rear wheel drive Metro that took 1000+ man hours of labor was totally not a fun car at the track the first couple races.  However, winning 1st overall at Barber with it is still our greatest achievement and probably the most fun I’ve ever had in racing.

Keep pushing... you’ll get it figured out.

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

TheEngineer wrote:

Building a car from basically scratch always has teething problems.


Lemons grade dry sump wouldn't be that much more complicated than anything else you've done.
A ferrari V8 would be great for internet hate points, though I wonder how much fun the electronics would be on that.....
Maybe worth considering a slightly more mundane option to up the chances of turning laps while you plan out and test a more exciting one?

You have blown through Viper engines like they're fuses, and built suspension from forklift forks. Sounds like it's time to dry sump that SOB...

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Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

FWIW, CA based Jensen Healey team (the one Neil Peart is on) runs a commercial dry sump setup (I forget whose) and I don't believe they get any flack for it.  I think you've earned enough Lemons cred to go that route if you so choose.

Or Jag V12 6.0

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Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

Just take an electric pump drawing from the pan and route it through a filter and cooler then plug it into a bypass to the original oil filter.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata.

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

darkostoj wrote:

After doing much research found the factory oil pump in the Viper engine's can't handle long periods of sustained high RPM and will start to cavitate and lose oil pressure. Looks like the permanent fix is a dry sump...which is super lame.


...or you could just keep the RPMs low.

Fourteen time loser. You'd think I'd know better by now.

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

Maverick74 wrote:
darkostoj wrote:

After doing much research found the factory oil pump in the Viper engine's can't handle long periods of sustained high RPM and will start to cavitate and lose oil pressure. Looks like the permanent fix is a dry sump...which is super lame.


...or you could just keep the RPMs low.

This.

After all, it's a truck engine.

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Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

Maverick74 wrote:
darkostoj wrote:

After doing much research found the factory oil pump in the Viper engine's can't handle long periods of sustained high RPM and will start to cavitate and lose oil pressure. Looks like the permanent fix is a dry sump...which is super lame.


...or you could just keep the RPMs low.

Quit with your logic!!!

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Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

Sounds to me like if the pump is cavitating that the problem is that oil doesn't return to the bottom end in a timely manner.  I think it would be a guessing game to know what RPM you need to run in order to avoid not having enough oil in the pan.  Scavenging is something dry sump pumps do extremely well so I still think that's the way you need to go.  Aviaid makes a pump that just scavenges.  You use your internal oil pump for pressure.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita" 
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)
1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless)
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Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

darkostoj wrote:

..the Viper engine's can't handle long periods of sustained high RPM..

Sorry to hear of the continuing engine problems.  There are not many engines that CAN handle long periods of sustained high RPM. 

How about the $50,000 my ass V8 Hayabusa engine, the H1V8,
https://www.h1v8.com/maxi-v8---specs.html   

But actually you have room for a v16 LS right?

https://www.speednik.com/files/2017/02/www.speednik.com-new-14-liter-v16-ls-based-marine-engine-unveiled-2017-02-16_03-13-16-640x427.jpg

https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/ … -unveiled/

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

nimblemotorsports wrote:
darkostoj wrote:

..the Viper engine's can't handle long periods of sustained high RPM..

Sorry to hear of the continuing engine problems.  There are not many engines that CAN handle long periods of sustained high RPM. 

How about the $50,000 my ass V8 Hayabusa engine, the H1V8,
https://www.h1v8.com/maxi-v8---specs.html   

But actually you have room for a v16 LS right?

https://www.speednik.com/files/2017/02/www.speednik.com-new-14-liter-v16-ls-based-marine-engine-unveiled-2017-02-16_03-13-16-640x427.jpg

https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/ … -unveiled/

Hm.  Someone sounds a little miffed.

Team Pacific Motors - 1977 Rolls Royce Silver Wraith

2018 Where the Elite Meet to Cheat - Organizer's Choice Award
2019 Rust Belt GP - Spirit of Entropy Award

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

The GEN 4 Viper oil pan with the swinging pickup may be the answer. If you're running the truck pan, I would suspect that it wasn't intended for the sort of cornering that is experienced on the track.

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Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

widgetsltd wrote:

The GEN 4 Viper oil pan with the swinging pickup may be the answer. If you're running the truck pan, I would suspect that it wasn't intended for the sort of cornering that is experienced on the track.

That oil pan won't fit in the vehicle since the 2nd gen fbody subframe was designed for a rear sump pan.  There is no way of fitting a pan like that.

Everything looks good with the rear sump pan, and I mean so many cars have a similar design it surprises me that a baffled rear sump design wouldn't work with cornering G forces. 

It's an 8qt pan, and I was told the oil doesn't drain back to the pan fast enough and it needs more capacity.

Also, I was running 0-40 amsoil, and wondering if that was an additional problem as well.

Team Pacific Motors - 1977 Rolls Royce Silver Wraith

2018 Where the Elite Meet to Cheat - Organizer's Choice Award
2019 Rust Belt GP - Spirit of Entropy Award

Re: I bought a Rolls Royce and want to build it.

Our Javelin experienced the same issue at PiTT. Baffling the pan with swing doors fixed the problem.
We were blipping the oil pressure at every corner. We added the baffles to keep the oil around the pickup and no pressure drop by the race in Jersey. Try the link for the cheap and easy plates with the doors,(cheap from Ebay!)
This was the basis for our fix, We also cut up a kickout chevy pan for more capacity.

The other choice that worked for us was an Accusump. you will have oil pressure before you fire the engine! Its amazing. We use that on our Saturn.

https://www.ebay.com/i/254133087411?chn … gLKl_D_BwE