1 (edited by Hanger 18 Customs 2018-09-05 05:49 PM)

Topic: Arrive and drive prices

After my first somewhat failed attempt at a Lemons race(GIngerman in June) and having a complete blast. I'm looking to do at least one if not hopefully more than one race next year, however I am not sure that all if any of the guys on the team will do one. Is $1000/person an unreasonable amount for an arrive and drive with food/beverages provided in a reasonably fast mid-upper class A car?   No personal safety gear will be provided save perhaps for the HANS. Outside of driving and refueling I don't really expect anyone to touch the car, nor do i know if I want them to.

Am I totally off base?

Re: Arrive and drive prices

Charge whatever you want to charge and justify it however you feel comfortable. People are certainly willing to pay more for a well-prepped contender car that they have reasonable assurances you didn't cut corners on and they can just come and drive without concern of your stuff breaking while they are mid-pass on some car that's been vexing them for the previous 10 laps. With the entry fees having gone up again, $1K seems in the ballpark.



I guess I'm still someone who technically does A&D since I'm the car owner, but I have more Regulars than All-Calls, but I do it the same either way.

I calculate what the car consumes for the weekend and we split it 4 ways, me included.

For most of my stuff that I've brought, that means 1/2 a set of tires, 1/2 set of brake pads, 5-6 qts of oil, a filter, 1pt of brake fluid.

Amortized cost of an engine "refresh" after 4 races. So 1/4 of the cost of a set of needed gaskets, rod and main bearings, rings, gasket sealant. (they never last 4 races, but it just seemed fair).

The cost of tow fuel to/from the track, which varies depending on what track we're going to.
The cost of track fuel at 3-4 gph

I ask that people usually pay 1/4 the entry fees directly to HQ and then I ask for the other money up front (based on a perfect weekend). If we don't burn as much track fuel or the car goes kaboom, I can refund the $ that we didn't spend on things like track fuel or anticipated brake and tire wear.

Food and lodging were not included, but they can/could ride to/from the track with me if they want.

I know some people will do this same calc but split it 3 ways so that they as car owner and the fool who did all the prep work gets a "free" ride that weekend. But because I'm bringing a Class C car, I figure I should just be thankful that I can get anyone to come help offset the costs of me bringing the car I want to bring anyway.

Some teams amortize the entire build cost of the car over some set number of races and charge additional amount for the car. I've never done that but I can understand why some would chose to.

Some teams factor in the risk of car or engine replacement at the hands of an A&Der and pad for that.

Re: Arrive and drive prices

Spank wrote:

The cost of track fuel at 3-4 gph .

3-4 gph! That's funny!


Spank wrote:

Some teams factor in the risk of car or engine replacement at the hands of an A&Der and pad for that.

That or having to re-do some or all of your fancy tri-coat  custom paint.

Re: Arrive and drive prices

For Race Fuel I usually just have the A&D Pay to fill the car back up after they drive, which works when the track has a pump. (yea we fill up each stint because winning is for losers! And Numburz are Hard)

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata.

5 (edited by RobL 2018-09-06 06:56 AM)

Re: Arrive and drive prices

Hanger 18 Customs wrote:
Spank wrote:

The cost of track fuel at 3-4 gph .

3-4 gph! That's funny!

V8s are more fun!

Otherwise, I do exactly what spank does.  Sometimes...  I do charge a "leeching bum surcharge" if I expect the A&D to be rougher on the equipment than the regular team.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: Arrive and drive prices

It's important to note how many drivers you have. I run an A class car with usually 3 drivers and I charge about 1000 for a 3 way split. If you have 4 drivers, I think most teams would charge less, but you get less drive time. As an occasional A&D, a car would need to be pretty flawless for me to sign up for $1000 on a 4 way split.

Re: Arrive and drive prices

the somewhat failed attempt may be what has people a little less wanting to pay that much.  The higher the price the more the people want to ensure they have track time.

Which car was yours?

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
Facebook Page

8 (edited by Hanger 18 Customs 2018-09-24 08:14 PM)

Re: Arrive and drive prices

BoB wrote:

the somewhat failed attempt may be what has people a little less wanting to pay that much.  The higher the price the more the people want to ensure they have track time.

Which car was yours?


This car:

http://i64.tinypic.com/33ej70n.jpg

The problems we had where cooling problems. We got them fixed Saturday and the car ran flawlessly all day Sunday. I am addressing them even further in the off season. I am also adding a new cam and rebuilding the T-5 due to slight wonkiness in the 3rd gear downshift.  I think that in the hands of a good driver and not three total noobs it would be a very competitive and reliable class A car.

Right now I was just looking to see if this was even a possibility.  Just want to get some more races in knowing my current team mates will only do one race a year.

Re: Arrive and drive prices

I charge an upfront deposit for the fixed cost items: entry fee, towing costs, some of the car prep. Then it's a per stint cost for the variables- gas, tires, brakes, etc. If something happens and you don't get your stint(s) in, you don't have to pay.

10 (edited by majo 2018-09-25 05:13 PM)

Re: Arrive and drive prices

I reckon a race weekend costs me around $2600, and charge accordingly. 

4 drivers = $650 a driver.
Wanna buy a stint?  Divide # of equal stints by $2600.
Class B winning car.

I charge $25-50 less for my class C car, even though it consumes more, umm, consumables.

I don't charge for my "time" prepping the car, as my time isn't that valuable......

COM ( Chief Operating Moron ) of Burnt Rubber Soul Racing
95 Ford Probe, 81 Imperial
Facebook page:  https://www.facebook.com/burntrubbersoulracing

Re: Arrive and drive prices

I rent out seats to just a few guys that have been driving in Lemon/Champ for a long time . Just to pay the fees to a race and a garage spot with Friday testing is over the $2000 mark. I look at the AD as a way to help pay some of the race costs. I try not to look at the true cost of racing here the time in my shop to build and get ready for every race. My shop rate is $100+ a hr  so if I were smart I would do customer work and stay home!! But I am race stupid but love it!!
DRVOLKS

Re: Arrive and drive prices

We run a class C car and most of the time our all-in costs are around $1000 per driver.  If I weren't dumb I'd sign on to pay $1000 to drive a reasonably well put together Class A car.  But I enjoy setting fast lap in our heap.

Tunachuckers: 10 Years of Sucking at Sucking
2008- 2010:  1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
2010-present:  1975 Ford LTD Landau...doesn't have a name?
2018:  1951 "Plymford".  Organizer's Choice - CMP Fall 2018 Hurricane Florence reschedule

Re: Arrive and drive prices

I charge 700-850, depending on how far the tow is for 1/4 share.  I lose money every time...

Silent But Deadly Racing- Chief cook and bottle washer, Former Flyin Turd Race Team Captain 
Ricky Bobby's Laughing Clown Malt Liquor Thunderbird Turbo Coupe, Datsun 510, 87 Mustang (The Race Team Formerly Known as Prince), 72 Pinto Squire waggy, Parnelli Jones 67 Galaxie
Besmirching race tracks in the Eastern US since 2001

14 (edited by VKZ24 2018-09-26 12:27 PM)

Re: Arrive and drive prices

We had a few occasional A&Ders on our team over the past 10 years, but we'd never allow just 'anybody'.  Everyone we've had, were people we know that we have either raced with/against, or done HPDE events with.  The way we see it, some unknown crazy random A&D fool could turn our hard work into a greasy spot on the wall, and just walk away.  NOPE.  Not going to happen.  If we don't know you, you'd need a really good reference from someone we do know, otherwise you can go and build your own car. 

FWIW, I agree that $1,000 is about right for an A&D in a competitive Class A car.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Arrive and drive prices

If you’re on our team is is close to $900+ per event for 4 drivers.  (Car owners)

Cars wear out.  New bearings are needed.  New calipers or rebuilds of calipers are needed.   Wiper motors finally fail.  Lots of little shit that just finally starts to fail that if you don’t replace it l, it will ruin a weekend.

So per race expenses are more than just a set of tires and pads and fuel for car and truck.

IF we have a driver we know well, we have (one time) split expenses evenly on an A&D basis. 

IF we ever were desperate enough to let someone come drive with us we didn’t know, they would have to have some very significant glowing references or be a nationally known driver with a good reputation.  Then it would probably cost them $1200+. 

They would get about a 50% chance at an overall win for the money, but I’m not spending the time to prep, load, transport and loan my car to some guy for what I pay in. 

Also... you break it you fix it.  If I can drive 40-ish Lemons races with minimal issue, so can anyone that drives for us.

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

Re: Arrive and drive prices

TeamLemon-aid wrote:

IF we ever were desperate enough to let someone come drive with us we didn’t know, they would have to have some very significant glowing references or be a nationally known driver with a good reputation.  Then it would probably cost them $1200+.


I've often wondered how teams handle this.  When I hear people boast about having Randy Pobst, or other professional level drivers on their roster, I wonder if these guys pay their fair share, or do they expect a free ride because of their pedigree?  BTW, I'm NOT saying by any means that Randy Pobst, who's a super nice guy BTW, or any other pro expects a free ride, I'm just wondering how those teams actually handle that.

Unlike you guys, an A&D couldn't expect a win in our car, but we're a competitive (top 10) A-class car when we don't step on our own d*cks.  I'd love to have a Mike Skeen, Randy Pobst, etc. drive our car to show us just how much we really suck, but nobody would ever get a free ride, pedigree or not.  Racing ain't free on ANY LEVEL.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Arrive and drive prices

I’m pretty sure the four hours Randy drove for the TaTa’s at Barber was free.

  I agree, if you drive for us, you pay us.  No matter who you are, I need monies.

Although, it would be interesting to see how quick a pro driver could be, and what could they teach me/us.

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

Re: Arrive and drive prices

TeamLemon-aid wrote:

I’m pretty sure the four hours Randy drove for the TaTa’s at Barber was free.

  I agree, if you drive for us, you pay us.  No matter who you are, I need monies.

Although, it would be interesting to see how quick a pro driver could be, and what could they teach me/us.

If Randy wanted to drive my car, I'd be happy to let him do 45 minutes or so out of my stint time, just to see what he could do with it.

Totally agree with your last sentence.  I'd of course have the GoPro running --  I think the seat time sacrificed would be worth the education.

COM ( Chief Operating Moron ) of Burnt Rubber Soul Racing
95 Ford Probe, 81 Imperial
Facebook page:  https://www.facebook.com/burntrubbersoulracing

Re: Arrive and drive prices

In this vein, we have let about 4 different drivers do free guest stints in the '47 Plymouth or the Dustbuster.  Anything from 30-45 minutes and one was even and hour.  Part of this was helping out fellow teams that blew the hell up early and a driver did not get any racing in and part of it was just "we have this really cool car you have to try and we are WAY out of contention."  Would I give Randy a stint in the Plymouth for free...sure but would take it out of my drive time and not the rest of the team.  Did I give Anton 40 minutes in the same car (with original drivetraint and suspension), yep.

It goes back to what is your team's goals.  I love the whole weekend in the hanging out with like-minded idiots way and the racing is fun.  That said, the like minded idots part is more important to me hence "Dude, you have to take a spin in this" mentality.  Would I ever get a free stint in the Postal Fail car because I have let a couple of their drivers take a spin in our cars...I am sure I would.  Would I ask for it when they were real racing...not a chance.

20 (edited by cabinboy 2018-09-30 02:01 PM)

Re: Arrive and drive prices

OnkelUdo wrote:

  Would I ever get a free stint in the Postal Fail car because I have let a couple of their drivers take a spin in our cars...I am sure I would.  Would I ask for it when they were real racing...not a chance.

That's Priority Fail. Just sayin

Newest member - White Trash Racing
Owner of the Traveling Hat