Topic: De-fogging 101?- bc it gonna rain in houston!!

going to msr this weekend! we are adding a marine blower with ducting to blow air on the windshield (we removed the heater core b/c its saved us sooo much weight!  wink)

i want to know if a blower with pvc directing it at the driver side of the windshield is a tried and true method of defogging - considering..... it gonna rain in houston this weekend!    [insert Ollie voice over from family guy]

also i would like to know if anyone has tried defog (like for dive masks) before - i have a bunch and am planning on bringing that as a back up.


also just trying to get my mind around how to dew point changes through out the night / in raining conditions.... -- my initial understanding is that dew forms on any surface which is at or below the dew point temp --- aka if the dew point is 55 and the temp outside is 50 -- and we are just blowing 50 deg air on our windshield with the blower---- will that actually mitigate the fog formation - or will it just keep the window at 50 degrees at which point i assume the fog/dew will form.

thanks,

2 (edited by Brett85p 2018-11-04 03:18 PM)

Re: De-fogging 101?- bc it gonna rain in houston!!

Stop that rain talk, it's going to be fine!

Fog-X works to a point but eventually becomes saturated and you need to try and get the glass dryish to reapply.

These are supposed to work well, have one but not needed it yet.
https://www.frostfighter.com/index.htm

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
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Re: De-fogging 101?- bc it gonna rain in houston!!

Brett85p wrote:

Stop that rain talk, it's going to be fine!

For-X works to a point but eventually becomes saturated and you need to try and get the glass dryish to reapply.

These are supposed to work well, have one but not needed it yet.
https://www.frostfighter.com/index.htm

lol i'm hoping the forecast holds and we just have to fight the rain on Friday - Saturday and Sunday should stay dry - if they know whats good for 'em---

i do like the defrost line idea.

Re: De-fogging 101?- bc it gonna rain in houston!!

https://www.bimmerworld.com/Safety-Race … r-Kit.html

$99 shipped.

The last two cars I've raced in the rain have both had these systems and they work phenomenally. Sooo many people neglect this issue until it's too late. Get on it NOW!  ;-)

*good luck at MSR

The Pentastar whisperer

Re: De-fogging 101?- bc it gonna rain in houston!!

I've posted it in your threads before, get one of the electric defrost kits.

Chemicals are insanely hit or miss and they depend on the car, how much air flow is on the glass, how the shape of the car sucks in more or less moisture, how well you apply the chemicals, etc. The electric ones just plain work. Buy one, install, never worry about it ever again.

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Re: De-fogging 101?- bc it gonna rain in houston!!

I installed 2 marine blowers pointed directly at the windshield and they seemed to work for a bit but ultimately were not up to the task.  I actually saw a car with an ebay-special electric radiator fan mounted on the dash pointing up at the windshield - no clue how it worked but it seemed like a decent idea.

If you can't get an electric system installed before the race, keep your blowers (they will help some), apply copious amounts of anti-fog, and absolutely positively without question keep a rag-on-a-stick in the car.  Swiffers or gas-station style squeegees are solid options. 

Even with an electric defroster that works amazingly well, we still carry a squeegee in the car, just in case.

Electric Mayhem Racing

Re: De-fogging 101?- bc it gonna rain in houston!!

TheEngineer wrote:

I've posted it in your threads before, get one of the electric defrost kits. Buy one, install, never worry about it ever again.

Are we in a forest?  I don't think anyone can hear you, because I've see you post this about a dozen times without a single acknowledgement.  I must be in the same forest, cause I can hear you.  I might be trying to convince the team to listen to you for 2019.  Just wanted you to know you exist.

BilCoh
B.A. - Philosophy

Re: De-fogging 101?- bc it gonna rain in houston!!

bilcoh wrote:
TheEngineer wrote:

I've posted it in your threads before, get one of the electric defrost kits. Buy one, install, never worry about it ever again.

Are we in a forest?  I don't think anyone can hear you, because I've see you post this about a dozen times without a single acknowledgement.  I must be in the same forest, cause I can hear you.  I might be trying to convince the team to listen to you for 2019.  Just wanted you to know you exist.

BilCoh
B.A. - Philosophy

Harumphh

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Re: De-fogging 101?- bc it gonna rain in houston!!

TheEngineer wrote:

I've posted it in your threads before, get one of the electric defrost kits.

Chemicals are insanely hit or miss and they depend on the car, how much air flow is on the glass, how the shape of the car sucks in more or less moisture, how well you apply the chemicals, etc. The electric ones just plain work. Buy one, install, never worry about it ever again.


good to know ---- seems like the consensus is blowers arent the best in the situation. and that the electric thing is pretty bullet proof

thanks!

Re: De-fogging 101?- bc it gonna rain in houston!!

Has anyone tried an electric defogger on Lexan? Wondering if that's an option...The Bimmerworld link says will not bond to Lexan, but there seems to be conflicting information out there.

Sorry For Party Racing! - 1985 Pontiac Firebird - Car #35

A race car exists only in two states: broken or in the process of becoming that way.

Re: De-fogging 101?- bc it gonna rain in houston!!

piper.gras wrote:

Has anyone tried an electric defogger on Lexan? Wondering if that's an option...The Bimmerworld link says will not bond to Lexan, but there seems to be conflicting information out there.

Never tried, because we still have glass. Next time I'm down near the race car i'll see if we have any of the defrost kit left over and test it out though. I have some bits of lexan kicking around.

20 Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
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Re: De-fogging 101?- bc it gonna rain in houston!!

I've heard these work pretty well https://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-E30-Conver … ctupt=true

Re: De-fogging 101?- bc it gonna rain in houston!!

Blower for windshield defogging? I think not *

...

...

... I changed my mind ...

Re: De-fogging 101?- bc it gonna rain in houston!!

We use an electric heater on our glass windshield because its what I had laying around and has worked great. Now I know that there are better options but this may be the answer for a Lexan.

Re: De-fogging 101?- bc it gonna rain in houston!!

For what it's worth.

1- Clean the inside really well
2- Palmolive dish soap on a rag and wipe the entire inside
of the windshield.
3- Let it dry. Which it will leave a hase
4- with a clean towel, cloth, whatever wipe the windshield till it's gone.

Note- do it when the windshield is dry or it may become a nightmare

It's cheap and it works, especially if it's last minute or in a bind.
Worked on mazda rx7, multiple bmws, etc

Re: De-fogging 101?- bc it gonna rain in houston!!

Our solution was to keep the heater core and stock air blowers.  Worked great during the rain we sometimes get at Barber.

I'm guessing that won't work for you...

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17 (edited by OnkelUdo 2018-11-06 06:32 PM)

Re: De-fogging 101?- bc it gonna rain in houston!!

Larro wrote:

For what it's worth.

1- Clean the inside really well
2- Palmolive dish soap on a rag and wipe the entire inside
of the windshield.
3- Let it dry. Which it will leave a hase
4- with a clean towel, cloth, whatever wipe the windshield till it's gone.

Note- do it when the windshield is dry or it may become a nightmare

It's cheap and it works, especially if it's last minute or in a bind.
Worked on mazda rx7, multiple bmws, etc

In a 14 hour race with an inch an hour of rain and dewpoint 5 degrees higher than the air temp.  Really...this worked in those conditions?  I am beyond skeptical.

Re: De-fogging 101?- bc it gonna rain in houston!!

Think what you want, but if you have no defogger, heater core or anything and your driving out of the corner of a windshield you will be wondering if it would have been a good idea to try.

Just a trick that I learned from Randy pobst many many years ago.

Oh and it's 3 bucks and 15 mins of work

Re: De-fogging 101?- bc it gonna rain in houston!!

Larro wrote:

Think what you want, but if you have no defogger, heater core or anything and your driving out of the corner of a windshield you will be wondering if it would have been a good idea to try.

I think the point made is that no chemical/goops/substances will work long enough for a full weekend rain race.  The method you mention is my prefered on motorcycle visors that works better than anything but a "fog city" insert or pinlock shield...all the commercial antifogs were equal or poorer than Dawn in my case.

So yes, if you have no other solution like a real defroster it is probably the best.  Do everything in your power to have either the wire-based defrost or a heater core/blower defrost.

Re: De-fogging 101?- bc it gonna rain in houston!!

All I'm doing is offering a low cost alternative. After all isn't Lemons about fun and making low cost shit wagons run for hours on end? Everyone has a better way to do things. Running a heater core is a bad idea. Another point of failure and hot fluids plumbed into the cockpit. Dawn and plastic helmet sheilds really isn't the same as Palmolive and glass. It was good enough for a rain soaked 6hr and 2 rainy sprint races a month later without reapplying. So if you simply want to make it through a weekend, it works. If you want to shake down your teammates for more money and 3hrs to install an electric defroster (which yes they do work well) then go for it.

No need to shoot down any ideas that you haven't tried just because you have a different opinion. Take in any info you can regardless if you disagree and get your car to the finish

21 (edited by TheEngineer 2018-11-07 10:14 AM)

Re: De-fogging 101?- bc it gonna rain in houston!!

We're seeing my point about chemical solutions played out here.

At some of the very wet races in the northeast over the last 2 years I've seen some teams swear by dish soap, and then others who followed those instructions exactly claim it didn't work at all. The car is a huge variable. What works on one doesn't always work on another. Shape and design of some cars suck in more moisture with the windows down. Some cars get more air movement over the inside of the glass than others. All of that changes how well the chemical solution will work.


FWIW, the electric kit is less than $100 shipped, and takes maybe an hour tops to install. It was worth every penny and minute of that at CT when I was passing people with a perfectly clear windshield never worrying when it would stop working.

And never would I call a heater core dangerous. It's extra cooling if anything. It's fully contained so  you're not going to get burned if it leaks. And they go hundreds of thousands of miles in street cars without leaking. It's such a low risk thing that it's not worth worrying about.

20 Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
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2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

22 (edited by VKZ24 2018-11-07 12:08 PM)

Re: De-fogging 101?- bc it gonna rain in houston!!

Larro wrote:

Running a heater core is a bad idea. Another point of failure and hot fluids plumbed into the cockpit.

Not arguing with your dish soap solution because I've never tried it, but saying running a heater core is a dangerous and bad idea is quite a reach.  Maybe someone should inform all the manufacturers who've be installing them in millions of street cars for over 50 years.

On our first build we deleted the heater core and all duct work.  The first time it rained, we regretted that decision.  On our current build we were smarter and kept the defroster ducting and heater core.  And just to be sure we could live as dangerously as possible, we also run a mechanical oil pressure gauge.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: De-fogging 101?- bc it gonna rain in houston!!

TheEngineer wrote:

FWIW, the electric kit is less than $100 shipped, and takes maybe an hour tops to install. It was worth every penny and minute of that at CT when I was passing people with a perfectly clear windshield never worrying when it would stop working.

I believe we are going this route in the off-season. CT was bad. This is what we get for putting lexan windows in the car. Never had a problem until we sealed up the car.

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Re: De-fogging 101?- bc it gonna rain in houston!!

All I did was offer a suggestion that no body mentioned. An easy fix to get through a weekend and this is where you guys want to take it.

What works on a street car doesn't always work on a race car. It's not a matter of if it breaks it's when it breaks. You guys can run heater cores all you want, im not talking you out of it. after many racecar builds for different organizations some allow it to stay and other dont unless it's disconnected.  Racecar see way more abuse than any street car tooling around at 70 for their whole life. Shit is going to break. The sooner you realize that the further your car will go.

Re: De-fogging 101?- bc it gonna rain in houston!!

I agree with that statement, within reason.

The heater core doesn't see much abuse in racing. It's not moving, it's not being bumped, it's not being stressed. If you're taking a hit big enough to push on the heater core the car is toast anyway. As long as your hoses are in good shape (and really, you should make sure all water hoses are) the heater core is literally one of the lowest at risk items in the car.

20 Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
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2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
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