Is winning an overall race with an EV vehicle even possible? (Page 5 of 9)

Guildenstern wrote:

Hey I was there.......But in a Sebring so not really racing.

Were you in the silver one or the red one? I got black flagged for passing the silver one under yellow. I got so used to just going around the Sebrings like they were some kind of weird track feature that I rolled right by one under yellow without thinking about it. After I got flagged I realized that the Sebrings were technically race cars driving on track with me.

Where does it say you must change drivers to refuel?

3.C.1 ...During fueling, the kill switch must be off; no one can be in the car...

RobL wrote:

I downloaded Rust in the Wind's times for you.  This is their winning run at NJMP in 2018. 

Use this race and not Thompson.  I can tell you that this race was all done under green flag and in the dry.  This team is very consistent and they come into the pits almost exactly every 50 laps for fuel.  It looks like they make 7 stops (and either a BF or broken car at lap 326) all weekend and their average stop is in the 3:00-3:30 times (which includes either their slower out lap or slower in lap depending on where they cross the timing loop in pit lane). 

http://gofile.me/6ulKe/xbC2QOht7

I didn't use that data you provided but I did pull that data from Speedhive myself.  I pulled it for Rust in the Wind and Scooby Doobies who won overall.  Rust in the Wind had 53 min of laps over 210 seconds,  Scooby Doobies had 33 minutes. 

Below is a link to my calculator, if you dont have the newest version of excel a few of the formulas will break but it is not a big deal. 

Link to Spreadsheet
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Fnh0C8 … sp=sharing

mully006 wrote:

RobL wrote:

I downloaded Rust in the Wind's times for you.  This is their winning run at NJMP in 2018. 

Use this race and not Thompson.  I can tell you that this race was all done under green flag and in the dry.  This team is very consistent and they come into the pits almost exactly every 50 laps for fuel.  It looks like they make 7 stops (and either a BF or broken car at lap 326) all weekend and their average stop is in the 3:00-3:30 times (which includes either their slower out lap or slower in lap depending on where they cross the timing loop in pit lane). 

http://gofile.me/6ulKe/xbC2QOht7

I didn't use that data you provided but I did pull that data from Speedhive myself.  I pulled it for Rust in the Wind and Scooby Doobies who won overall.  Rust in the Wind had 53 min of laps over 210 seconds,  Scooby Doobies had 33 minutes. 

Below is a link to my calculator, if you dont have the newest version of excel a few of the formulas will break but it is not a big deal. 

Link to Spreadsheet
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Fnh0C8 … sp=sharing

I'm not going to try and figure out that spreadsheet.  You are trying to do with a formula what needs to be done with intelligence because that formula is picking up false positives.  How does it tell the difference between a pit stop, black flag, or mechanical problem?  The information that you are ultimately looking for is "How long does it take a top team to fuel and change drivers?" and "How many times a race does that happen?"

The short answer to the first question is between 3 and 4 minutes.  Can we agree on that? 

The second question is the one that your spreadsheet is coming up with false positives.  You can not go strictly on a time trigger.  You have to look at the lap times and find a pattern - IE, the team pits every 90-120 minutes for fuel.  Then you need to exclude data that does not fit that pattern.

Looking at your spreadsheet, I see that RITW stopped in lap 32 for 7 minutes.  I suspect the refueling happened at lap 32 so they can go ~30 laps before needing fuel.  I also see a 12 minute stop at lap 150.  That is not a refueling stop and needs to be excluded - was it?  I don't know what it is but it is outside a maximum pit stop time where the car only needed fuel and a new driver.  If it was included, then your times are at least 11 minutes off for that team for that race.  Or maybe it was a fuel/driver stop and then they had to come in for a BF. 

But, like I said before, the winning teams are coming in 3 times a day for fuel and stopping for 3-4 minutes.  That equates to 10-20 minutes in the pits per race, not 30-40.  That's why I suggested using the RITW and the NJMP race.  The data is very clear for that race win.

Look at our Barber win data and it will blow up your spreadsheet. 

5 lap penalty

10 mins off track for 1 black flag

13 mins off track for two bent rims

5 pit stops

For people talking about the Tesla 2-min battery swap setup. It required a pit under the car with an elevator in it. They have more recently patented a system that doesn't have to be installed in-ground, but it requires a vehicle lift to raise the car off of the battery pack and it takes longer than 2 minutes. there is no way that setup is going in a hot-pit space.

We were working on a system using wheeled carts with roller-conveyor tops, but Jay would not allow us to have the carts in the hot pits, so we ended up with the crane/pallet system that we used at CMP. Pit stops were still under 10 minutes, which was pretty good considering what we were working with, but you aren't going to swap the battery pack out of a Tesla in any reasonable amount of time.

We have kicked around an S-10/Ranger based EV so we could carry a lot of batteries, and if Jay will allow a wheeled battery cart in the hot pit, then it's easy enough to rig up a hot-swap system that would only take a few minutes, but that still doesn't get around the fundamental power/weight math of winning a Lemons race in an EV. We could make it go very fast, but probably not for a very long time.

I suspect that since they now have the EV challenge in the books, they'd be willing to discuss hot pit swaps if you had a good plan in place for how it would work, safety, etc. But as they say, you must work with them as you develop.