Topic: VW TDI Engine/transmission Question

So if I have an old Omni/Horizon that came with a 1st-gen VW 1.7 (gas) and a 4-speed 020 transmission, what other engines will bolt up to it?

Ideally I'd like a diesel, and from what I've been able to gather a 3rd-gen Golf/Jetta (roughly '91-'99) 1.9 TDI should bolt up to an 020, still have mechanical injection to make it easy to wire up, and be a pretty sturdy power plant. I've been looking for an original 1st-gen 1.5 diesel, but those are getting hard to find and expensive.

Somebody who knows VW stuff please aim me in the right direction.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: VW TDI Engine/transmission Question

The 020 is really not that strong, so if you're going with a newer turbo diesel I'd be worried about breaking stuff with the torque.  How much hp/torque do you want?

You have 90mm axles, the strongest 020 is form the 16v Scirocco  and it has the bigger 100mm axles and bigger input shaft.

A cable shifted 02a or 02j is what you will want to swap if the 020 isn't enough.

Takata R&D :: 1993 Accord - team captain - rear drum brakes lol
GoPro 360 Heros :: BMW E28  - co-captain

Re: VW TDI Engine/transmission Question

Supposedly:

VW has two bolt patterns for all the "modern" engines (all the FWD/AWD VW and Audi products). 4 cyl and not 4 cyl.

The Porsche 924 has the "not 4 cyl" pattern according to internet lore.

The Volvo D24 should also have the "not 4 cyl" pattern, since it is a 6 cyl.

In reality, the two do not have the same bolt pattern. But 5 holes match up, and they are pretty evenly spread around...

That guy

Re: VW TDI Engine/transmission Question

I'd like to keep the current transmission, axles, and whatnot, mostly because they are already there. They also have extremely low miles and work perfectly. I just want to bolt an engine into it and go. My main consideration is availability. 1st gen Rabbit engines are harder to find and relatively expensive, while 90's Jetta/Golf engines are common and cheap. I can get an engine from a 3rd-gen Jetta/Golf for very cheap and they are all over the place, so if that bolts up, then it's probably my best option. I don't particularly care about the engine, but I'd prefer a diesel because I like how they sound and mechanical injection with no ignition system is incredibly simple and reliable.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: VW TDI Engine/transmission Question

DirtyDuc wrote:

Supposedly:

VW has two bolt patterns for all the "modern" engines (all the FWD/AWD VW and Audi products). 4 cyl and not 4 cyl.

The Porsche 924 has the "not 4 cyl" pattern according to internet lore.

The Volvo D24 should also have the "not 4 cyl" pattern, since it is a 6 cyl.

In reality, the two do not have the same bolt pattern. But 5 holes match up, and they are pretty evenly spread around...

Yes, there's an old bolt pattern and a new bolt pattern. I have EV adapter plates for both of them, and they are pretty close, but not close enough to be interchangeable. I know that any New Beetle ('98+) is the new pattern and that anything pre-'92 is the old pattern, but I'm not sure about '92-'99 Jettas and Golfs, which is what I'm going to find the most of in junkyards.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: VW TDI Engine/transmission Question

For a diesel platform I have run the ALH TDI setup for many years with there 5 sp . start in 1998 Beetle up to 2004 Jetta Golf Beetle
Can find them very cheap.
https://i.imgur.com/7TdXpwH.jpg?1
With a tune and all the EGR stuff removed and a good clutch will run for ever. If you go 1998-99 Beetle I got a lot of engine parts and 2 ECMs setup for chip tuning with some great tunes $200
Bob Mann

Re: VW TDI Engine/transmission Question

I'm not an expert on transmission interchange but I do race a car with the 020. Bolting up a later diesel to the early 020 will work as long as you don't up the power of the engine to much and don't drive it like you stole it!  Turning it up to "11" would not be a good thing!

Re: VW TDI Engine/transmission Question

jimbbski wrote:

I'm not an expert on transmission interchange but I do race a car with the 020. Bolting up a later diesel to the early 020 will work as long as you don't up the power of the engine to much and don't drive it like you stole it!  Turning it up to "11" would not be a good thing!

When we ghettocharged our old 16V Golf/020 transmission, transmission life was between 3 laps and 5 hours.  Three races turbo'ed, 4 transmissions killed.  All had the same failure point.  The ring and pinion separated when the pinion shaft flexed under the power at "13" (waay over 11).  The lower bearing on the pinion is TINY.  At "stock" power, the only failure we ever had was 3rd gear overshifting and the tranny getting stuck in 3rd or the clutch getting coated in oil because VW.

I know the 90mm and 100mm output trannys have the same bolt pattern.  I agree with aventari, go with an 02a out of a Mk3 if at all possible.  You will probably rip the pinion gear right out of an 020 if you get a load of torque.

#508 Team SOB
FINALLY!!!!!!!!!

Re: VW TDI Engine/transmission Question

The rivets holding the ring gear to the diff. is a known weak point of the 020 trans.  It will break even on a street car driven normally.  Pulling the trans down and replacing the rivets with ARP nuts & bolts cures this 100%. The cost is the bolt kit and the gaskets, etc. needed to tear down and reassemble the trans. 

I've done this and it does require some skill and special tools which you can make if you're handy.

Re: VW TDI Engine/transmission Question

The last year of the Beetle we ran 30 LB of boost and could get 4 hr and 45 min to 14.5 gal of fuel here is what it looked like from the drivers seat at Thompson the gauge to the bottom right is boost
https://youtu.be/1MnV4tSYnoI

Re: VW TDI Engine/transmission Question

jimbbski wrote:

I'm not an expert on transmission interchange but I do race a car with the 020. Bolting up a later diesel to the early 020 will work as long as you don't up the power of the engine to much and don't drive it like you stole it!  Turning it up to "11" would not be a good thing!

Which later diesel do you use? Ideally I'd like to try a 1.9 out of a 3rd-gen Jetta or Golf. Actually any engine out of a 3rd-gen would probably be fine. It looks like there are a lot of 2.0 gas engines out there for really cheap.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

12 (edited by aventari 2019-03-18 09:43 AM)

Re: VW TDI Engine/transmission Question

The easiest and most reliable swap you'll do if you're keeping the 020 is a 2.0 8v aka 2.slow.  They're ubiquitous in Mk3 and Mkl4 Jettas and Golfs and will bolt up. It will bolt anywhere the stock 1.7 did, the main difference is the block is 16mm taller than the earlier motors.  It won't mangle your 4 speed too quickly either.

Thats what I would run if I were you and I wanted to be on track racing. If you like being in the pits fixing stuff, then go with the turbo diesel smile

Takata R&D :: 1993 Accord - team captain - rear drum brakes lol
GoPro 360 Heros :: BMW E28  - co-captain

Re: VW TDI Engine/transmission Question

aventari wrote:

The easiest and most reliable swap you'll do if you're keeping the 020 is a 2.0 8v aka 2.slow.  They're ubiquitous in Mk3 and Mkl4 Jettas and Golfs and will bolt up. It will bolt anywhere the stock 1.7 did, the main difference is the block is 16mm taller than the earlier motors.  It won't mangle your 4 speed too quickly either.

Thats what I would run if I were you and I wanted to be on track racing. If you like being in the pits fixing stuff, then go with the turbo diesel smile

Thanks, that's exactly what I needed to hear. I see those everywhere for really cheap. A lot of them even come with a wiring harness and an ECU.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: VW TDI Engine/transmission Question

The VW TDI ALH turbo is one of the most miles on on a engine in world some have 400K +  and still running . There is nothing like it coming off a turn with a TDI all the torque in at 1800 RPM  DRVOLKS

Re: VW TDI Engine/transmission Question

I'd like a 1.9 diesel, but I'll probably try a 2.0 gas. There's one sitting at LKQ with a warranty for $257 right now.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: VW TDI Engine/transmission Question

rmcdaniels wrote:

I'd like a 1.9 diesel, but I'll probably try a 2.0 gas. There's one sitting at LKQ with a warranty for $257 right now.

One of the keys to budget/ grassroots Lemons racing is finding a drive line that cheap and abundant/attainable. In our neck of the woods you can find any VW/audi for very little monies and have backup parts cars for spares. We choose to go with a 1.8t because over the years i have accumulated about 4 spares engines ready to drop in at any moments notice.

Re: VW TDI Engine/transmission Question

MFBense wrote:

One of the keys to budget/ grassroots Lemons racing is finding a drive line that cheap and abundant/attainable. In our neck of the woods you can find any VW/audi for very little monies and have backup parts cars for spares. We choose to go with a 1.8t because over the years i have accumulated about 4 spares engines ready to drop in at any moments notice.

Sound advice and oddly 1.8T's are easier to find in my neck of the woods than 2.slows now.  All the buffy-bow-head Jetta's have now shelled their auto tranny but the 1.8t's that got an oil change more than once a year seem to outlast said transmission 3-1.

Now you want common?  Stand on the roof of any GM car in a northern Midwest PnP and  you can hit at least 4 3800 powered cars with your stream.  The other two you hit are either 3.1 or 2.2/2.4 Ecotech. 

In the Ford section it would be either a Vulcan or a Zetec.

Re: VW TDI Engine/transmission Question

OnkelUdo wrote:
MFBense wrote:

One of the keys to budget/ grassroots Lemons racing is finding a drive line that cheap and abundant/attainable. In our neck of the woods you can find any VW/audi for very little monies and have backup parts cars for spares. We choose to go with a 1.8t because over the years i have accumulated about 4 spares engines ready to drop in at any moments notice.

Sound advice and oddly 1.8T's are easier to find in my neck of the woods than 2.slows now.  All the buffy-bow-head Jetta's have now shelled their auto tranny but the 1.8t's that got an oil change more than once a year seem to outlast said transmission 3-1.

Now you want common?  Stand on the roof of any GM car in a northern Midwest PnP and  you can hit at least 4 3800 powered cars with your stream.  The other two you hit are either 3.1 or 2.2/2.4 Ecotech. 

In the Ford section it would be either a Vulcan or a Zetec.

I don't think others would appreciate coming by after you have "marked" your territory! LOL!

Re: VW TDI Engine/transmission Question

The 2.0 does seem to be really common around here. I'll pick one up and see how hard it is to jam in there.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: VW TDI Engine/transmission Question

MFBense wrote:
rmcdaniels wrote:

I'd like a 1.9 diesel, but I'll probably try a 2.0 gas. There's one sitting at LKQ with a warranty for $257 right now.

One of the keys to budget/ grassroots Lemons racing is finding a drive line that cheap and abundant/attainable. In our neck of the woods you can find any VW/audi for very little monies and have backup parts cars for spares. We choose to go with a 1.8t because over the years i have accumulated about 4 spares engines ready to drop in at any moments notice.

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