1 (edited by rustingsoftly 2019-04-22 10:26 PM)

Topic: Determining Value of a Free Car

Howdy, I am new and trying to learn what it will take to build a Lemons car.  I have looked over the rules and am familiar with the $500 rule, as well as the $500 organizers claim rule.  I understand these two rules and I am not suggesting the car is worth nothing, I just want to know what would be considered 'fair'.  Here are the circumstances of how the car came to be in our (my) possession:

The administration at our community college was getting fed up with 3-5 cars that were left at their auto shop building (my guess is they were student cars that were just left when the kids graduated, or moved, or gave up, etc.).  My father is friends with the facilities director of the school, so when the day came for the cars to leave they called him and told them to get them out of there.  They just wanted them gone without having to mess with them or take anytime to do anything with them.  Well this is one of the cars that was abandoned there.  Bear in mind scrap value per ton in my area is very low (I have witnessed $20-$100 per ton) and during the time we got these cars it must have been at a point that it wasn't worth much for the school to store them or load them up to take to the crusher.  Also, the school is located in city limits and during this time new ordinances caused a large 'crack down' to ticket unregistered cars to get them off the street or impounding vehicles that basically were considered unsightly.  It was the perfect storm to get this car for nothing.

2 (edited by rustingsoftly 2019-04-22 10:42 PM)

Re: Determining Value of a Free Car

The car, I think, is a 1982 Chevy Camaro Z28.  It has some other engine in it now other than the 305 it probably came with.  The 4 speed is still there, its probably a saginaw, but I doesn't act like it goes into all the gears.  The engine has been sitting open for years and is stuck.  The car was painted (very badly) at some point.  The whole interior is in shambles.  The fender for some reason is in the back seat area and the hood is now a 1/8" thick piece of floppy fiberglass.  Everything has been messed with, tore apart, and all the parts are scattered.  There is rust in the floor.  On the bright side, it has a windshield and would be easier to put a cage in with it being a hatch back car, excuse me, lift back car.

I personally would have not paid anything over scrap value for this car.  Everything needs attention to some degree, would it be safe to assume this car is approximately worth its weight in scrap; more accurately its weight in scrap when it was acquired?  We are a registered salvage yard in our state and can easily produce are own bill of sale if need be.

3 (edited by rustingsoftly 2019-04-22 10:24 PM)

Re: Determining Value of a Free Car

http://i65.tinypic.com/2vakztc.jpg

http://i67.tinypic.com/2l8hiit.jpg

http://i65.tinypic.com/mjve4j.jpg

http://i64.tinypic.com/s28byc.jpg

http://i63.tinypic.com/m8z5uo.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/34ozvgh.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/o8tob4.jpg

Re: Determining Value of a Free Car

based on my extensive crapcan buying experience, I'd say that's an advertised price of $150 at best.

And if I saw it advertised for $50, I still wouldn't buy it.

So go ahead and do what you need to to make it run and drive. In the end, nobody is going to care how much you spent on it. Stay in the SPIRIT of $500, bribe whether or not you need to, and just have fun.

Re: Determining Value of a Free Car

Is that an OE hood?

6 (edited by Sir Thomas Crapper 2019-04-23 05:03 AM)

Re: Determining Value of a Free Car

Thats a free car if ever I saw one.

Show them these pics at BS and I'm sure they'd agree.  You could also email judge Phil with pics and get a value on it.

Silent But Deadly Racing- Chief cook and bottle washer, Former Flyin Turd Race Team Captain 
Ricky Bobby's Laughing Clown Malt Liquor Thunderbird Turbo Coupe, Datsun 510, 87 Mustang (The Race Team Formerly Known as Prince), 72 Pinto Squire waggy, Parnelli Jones 67 Galaxie
Besmirching race tracks in the Eastern US since 2001

Re: Determining Value of a Free Car

rustingsoftly wrote:

The car, I think, is a 1982 Chevy Camaro Z28.

Well, you'd have to pay me to take that Camaro < $0

rustingsoftly wrote:

It has some other engine in it now other than the 305 it probably came with.

Biggest POS lump of cast iron GM ever produced = $0

rustingsoftly wrote:

The 4 speed is still there, its probably a saginaw, but I doesn't act like it goes into all the gears.

That might have value to someone...somewhere = $1

rustingsoftly wrote:

The engine has been sitting open for years and is stuck.  The car was painted (very badly) at some point.  The whole interior is in shambles.  The fender for some reason is in the back seat area and the hood is now a 1/8" thick piece of floppy fiberglass.  Everything has been messed with, tore apart, and all the parts are scattered.  There is rust in the floor.  On the bright side, it has a windshield and would be easier to put a cage in with it being a hatch back car, excuse me, lift back car.

This SCREAMS, "FREE!" = $0

rustingsoftly wrote:

We are a registered salvage yard in our state and can easily produce are own bill of sale if need be.

You'd only need this option if you were building something SUPER cheaty. I think you're safe.

Someone had to spend time, effort and money to pick this turd up = $ -?

Since you can't have a negative starting value for the car, rounding up gets you = $0 Value.

Take a lot of pics to keep as evidence for where your case of tetanus originated, keep all of the weird pieces of trash that come out of the car, and make something interesting from the scraps that you remove to actually make it driveable,  and you'll be fine.

Capt. Delinquent Racing
TRUMPACO XR4Ti
The One & Only Taurus V8 SHO #31(now moved on to another OG Delinquent)
'17 Vodden the Hell - (No) Hope for the Future Award, '08 AMP Survivor, '08 ARSE-FREEZE-APALOOZA Mega-Cheater

Re: Determining Value of a Free Car

Throw in one of the 30,000,000 Small-Block Chevy V8s built, cage it, and race it. Bring the photos if you want to be real sure you don't get too much grief, but that's about the exact caliber of janky Z28 that we get in Lemons.

Edit: You work at a junkyard. I'm sure you have at least 30 SBCs you could fit in there at this very moment.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

Re: Determining Value of a Free Car

therood wrote:

Throw in one of the 30,000,000 Small-Block Chevy V8s built, cage it, and race it. Bring the photos if you want to be real sure you don't get too much grief, but that's about the exact caliber of janky Z28 that we get in Lemons.

Edit: You work at a junkyard. I'm sure you have at least 30 SBCs you could fit in there at this very moment.

But, but...it would be so much more awesome with a ghettocharged Iron Duke for Ford Big 6 or 6.2 GM diesel.

10 (edited by chaase 2019-04-23 10:51 AM)

Re: Determining Value of a Free Car

Spank wrote:

based on my extensive crapcan buying experience, I'd say that's an advertised price of $150 at best.

And if I saw it advertised for $50, I still wouldn't buy it.

So go ahead and do what you need to to make it run and drive. In the end, nobody is going to care how much you spent on it. Stay in the SPIRIT of $500, bribe whether or not you need to, and just have fun.

/agree

Based on those pictures, that is a free car. If I saw that, I wouldn't pay anything for it and, if I owned it, I would offer it up to anyone willing to come and take it. (Had I owned it, it would've been turned into a Lemons car but I make bad decisions pretty regularly)

If I HAD to assign a value to it, it would be scrap only but I wouldn't worry about it. If anything, the judges will be more concerned about money spent making run, than the purchase price. As long as you don't try to go all cheaty, they won't really give you grief especially if you come up with a good theme.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1 - needs a theme
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - Organizer's Choice

11 (edited by Spank 2019-04-23 12:01 PM)

Re: Determining Value of a Free Car

chaase wrote:
Spank wrote:

based on my extensive crapcan buying experience, I'd say that's an advertised price of $150 at best.

And if I saw it advertised for $50, I still wouldn't buy it.

So go ahead and do what you need to to make it run and drive. In the end, nobody is going to care how much you spent on it. Stay in the SPIRIT of $500, bribe whether or not you need to, and just have fun.

/agree

Based on those pictures, that is a free car. If I saw that, I wouldn't pay anything for it and, if I owned it, I would offer it up to anyone willing to come and take it. (Had I owned it, it would've been turned into a Lemons car but I make bad decisions pretty regularly)

If I HAD to assign a value to it, it would be scrap only but I wouldn't worry about it. If anything, the judges will be more concerned about money spent making run, than the purchase price. As long as you don't try to go all cheaty, they won't really give you grief especially if you come up with a good theme.

Fair enough, but I just said that's what I see stuff like that advertised for, at best. Never said that's what it's worth.

Re: Determining Value of a Free Car

Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:

Is that an OE hood?

I found one on eBay that says it oem fiberglass hood.  So I am guessing it is, but its missing the steel frame the connects to the hinges.  It weighs 5-10 pounds right now.

Re: Determining Value of a Free Car

Thanks everyone for the replies, this was very helpful.  I appreciate it.

14 (edited by chaase 2019-04-23 12:43 PM)

Re: Determining Value of a Free Car

Spank wrote:
chaase wrote:
Spank wrote:

based on my extensive crapcan buying experience, I'd say that's an advertised price of $150 at best.

And if I saw it advertised for $50, I still wouldn't buy it.

So go ahead and do what you need to to make it run and drive. In the end, nobody is going to care how much you spent on it. Stay in the SPIRIT of $500, bribe whether or not you need to, and just have fun.

/agree

Based on those pictures, that is a free car. If I saw that, I wouldn't pay anything for it and, if I owned it, I would offer it up to anyone willing to come and take it. (Had I owned it, it would've been turned into a Lemons car but I make bad decisions pretty regularly)

If I HAD to assign a value to it, it would be scrap only but I wouldn't worry about it. If anything, the judges will be more concerned about money spent making run, than the purchase price. As long as you don't try to go all cheaty, they won't really give you grief especially if you come up with a good theme.

Fair enough, but I just said that's what I see stuff like that advertised for, at best. Never said that's what it's worth.

No argument here Spank. Just saying if I HAD to assign a value it would be scrap but, in reality, the car is basically worthless.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1 - needs a theme
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - Organizer's Choice

Re: Determining Value of a Free Car

OnkelUdo wrote:
therood wrote:

Throw in one of the 30,000,000 Small-Block Chevy V8s built, cage it, and race it.

But, but...it would be so much more awesome with a ghettocharged Iron Duke for Ford Big 6 or 6.2 GM diesel.

As always, the correct answer is Ford Y-block, although Lincoln Y-block is certainly also acceptable.

1982 MG Metro 1300: IOE 2015 Pacific Northworst GP, Longest Distance 2010 Cd'L Box Wine Country Classic
1980 KV Mini 1: Worst of Show and Fright Pig Supremo 2009 Concours d'Lemons
1978 H Special: Second-Round Elimination 2010 Lemons Pinewood Derby at Sears Pointless
1967 SAAB 96: IOE 2012 Pacific Northworst GP

Re: Determining Value of a Free Car

I'm not a 3rd gen F-body expert, but I did own a '86 Camaro for 6 years.  To my knowledge, and again I'm no expert, but I don't recall GM making a factory fiberglass hood for that car.   The vents on the factory hood were fake, those look functional.

Back on topic, that is not a free car.  That is a pay me to take from you car!  Not sure if the judges will allow a number less than zero, but I can't see you getting any sweat from them, sans dropping in an LS power plant.  The original 305 was weak when brand new, so any run of the mill SBC would likely be a good substitute with the judges.  Drop in something interesting and they won't even bat an eye for sure.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Determining Value of a Free Car

The questions around the hood aren’t because of value, but because of tech requirements. You’ll need an OE hood that will keep the con rods and flames from flying upwards. But that’s a free car if I ever saw one.

Low Road Racing:  Mustang II/Sunbird/Spirit AMX

We will not compromise our morals and build anything but a class C car.
"You take the high road, we'll take the low."

Re: Determining Value of a Free Car

It was the same discussion for me about two years ago:

3.J.2 Fenders, Doors, and Hoods Required. All cars must have fenders at all wheels so that no tire surface extends past the body; all doors in place; and OE hoods. Hoods must be securely mounted by OE hardware and/or strong fasteners at all corners.

Mine was a Cervini. American [NJ] made aftermarket hood, metal. I decided to not risk failing tech because of it. The new owner was thrilled it came with the car.

Best of luck.

Re: Determining Value of a Free Car

Jay hates camaros, so that would a great car to make a Lemons racer.
That said, you are going to be spending $2-5k to make it a racecar,
so I would say pick the car to build not based on how cheap you can get one.

Note the last IOE winner was a stock 250k mile CRV that did very well,
and plenty of other 'not fast' cars do quite well in Lemons, like the stock Prius.
And finding an exiting Lemons racer is your best choice.

Just make it safe, and by safe I mean the brakes, steering, suspension won't fail.

Re: Determining Value of a Free Car

Value of that car: free.

To quote Billy Gibbons
"I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole!"

Believe me, this borders on a  Class C Z28 (ponder that for a minute)...

#888-Hong Kong Cavaliers Benz S500: formerly known as OMG Racing #140...
Judges Choice and Regional Award winner! Chuckwalla '12, Buttonwillow '13, BFE GP '15, Miller '14 & '15, Sonoma '13,'14,'15,'17, '18. Inde '16,'17,'18. Other foolishness: Finisher of the inaugural Lemons Rally, in the black Jag.... and IOE in the Super Snipe back in '12.

Re: Determining Value of a Free Car

VKZ24 wrote:

I'm not a 3rd gen F-body expert, but I did own a '86 Camaro for 6 years.  To my knowledge, and again I'm no expert, but I don't recall GM making a factory fiberglass hood for that car.   The vents on the factory hood were fake, those look functional..

Factory fiberglass with a solenoid to open the snooters; that’s 1982 GM performance!  Be still my beating heart

Re: Determining Value of a Free Car

Thats a 12 pack and you loan me your trailer and I'll take it away kind of deal.

#44 VW Jetta "Le Mondrian"
Arsesweat '17 finished 10th in (B), 3 finishes in 7 races
#96 Silver Subaru Legacy Automatic w Orange Top (formerly)

Re: Determining Value of a Free Car

Ran when parked