Re: 24hr@CMP Afterthoughts from Rookie Team

VKZ24 wrote:

Since there doesn't seem to be another CMP 24 race thread, for those who were there, any update on the driver who was injured Saturday afternoon?  I think he was on the Jerry Curl Racing team who was fielding a Taurus SHO.

When I saw the red flag I new it was serious, but when it was quiet and I heard the helicopter, my heart just sank.   HQ announced over the PA the driver was conscious and aware enough to oppose the helicopter ride (HQ insisted he take it), but I didn't hear any updates afterwards.

BTW, regarding the red flag, I wasn't driving at the time, but I was watching from the hot pits.  I was quite impressed that all the drivers (within my view) handled it exactly as they should have.  You might say what the bid deal, but we've had red flag drills during my club's HPDE events, and more than a few drivers drove by several stations before they stopped.  Kudos to all my fellow Lemons racers who know what the flags mean, and how to react appropriately.


I had just pulled on the track (literally made it through Turn 5) and the accident happened just in front of me.  I couldn't see what happened (not that close), just the dust and the 2nd car parked on the side of the track.  I had no idea a car was WAY into the woods when I went by.   The first flag station already had a yellow flag out, and the next one had a red flag waving already when I got there.  Amazingly quick!  Like within 10 seconds of the accident happening.  They acted fast.   ....and I agree - everyone did exactly what they were supposed to.  I was more than a little caught off guard with just getting on the track (never been on the track before or driven the car before), but everyone did a great job. I probably could have pulled over sooner, but it was a shock to see the red flag so fast.   All I've heard is that he was released from the hospital.

Here's what I saw:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siXoKDB … e=youtu.be

Re: 24hr@CMP Afterthoughts from Rookie Team

VKZ24 wrote:

Since there doesn't seem to be another CMP 24 race thread, for those who were there, any update on the driver who was injured Saturday afternoon?  I think he was on the Jerry Curl Racing team who was fielding a Taurus SHO.

When I saw the red flag I new it was serious, but when it was quiet and I heard the helicopter, my heart just sank.   HQ announced over the PA the driver was conscious and aware enough to oppose the helicopter ride (HQ insisted he take it), but I didn't hear any updates afterwards.

BTW, regarding the red flag, I wasn't driving at the time, but I was watching from the hot pits.  I was quite impressed that all the drivers (within my view) handled it exactly as they should have.  You might say what the big deal, but we've had red flag drills during my club's HPDE events, and more than a few drivers drove by several stations before they stopped.  Kudos to all my fellow Lemons racers who know what the flags mean, and how to react appropriately.

Judge Eric mentioned else where that the driver got discharged from the hospital with nothing more serious than some bad bruising. They ment to tell everyone at the award ceremony but forgot.

Fourteen time loser. You'd think I'd know better by now.

28 (edited by steve 2019-05-02 10:46 AM)

Re: 24hr@CMP Afterthoughts from Rookie Team

VKZ24 wrote:

Since there doesn't seem to be another CMP 24 race thread, for those who were there, any update on the driver who was injured Saturday afternoon?  I think he was on the Jerry Curl Racing team who was fielding a Taurus SHO.

When I saw the red flag I new it was serious, but when it was quiet and I heard the helicopter, my heart just sank.   HQ announced over the PA the driver was conscious and aware enough to oppose the helicopter ride (HQ insisted he take it), but I didn't hear any updates afterwards.

BTW, regarding the red flag, I wasn't driving at the time, but I was watching from the hot pits.  I was quite impressed that all the drivers (within my view) handled it exactly as they should have.  You might say what the big deal, but we've had red flag drills during my club's HPDE events, and more than a few drivers drove by several stations before they stopped.  Kudos to all my fellow Lemons racers who know what the flags mean, and how to react appropriately.


Eric Rood Posted elsewhere, but he was discharged Saturday night with only bruising. No broken bones. We meant to mention it during awards, but we were hella sleep deprived and not thinking at our highest levels.


OOPS disregard I see this was already posted

2010, 26th @ CMP, 2011, 10th & 5th at CMP, 2012? (MIA), 2013 Spring CMP, 53rd, 2013 Fall CMP 44th, 2014 Barber 14th, 2014 CMP 46th, 2015 CMP 57th, 2015 CMP 80th, 2016 CMP 16th, 3rd in B class, Winner Judges choice, and First car under 2.0 liter Alex's lemon aide stand winner. 2017 WRL, Road Atlanta 43rd, 2017 NCM 9th O/A , 1st in B class, 2018 CMP 13th O/A 3rd in Class B

Re: 24hr@CMP Afterthoughts from Rookie Team

As a team that's done 10+ regular Lemons races, we had a great time at CMP.  First 24 for us, first time at CMP.  The Buick did wonderfully aside from chewing tires even faster than expected... and one lost caliper bolt.  The notorious Kink was a non-issue for us, never had to back off for it.  The track as a whole was great, fast track, and racing at night was awesome.   It did make ordinary non-24hour races seem rather tame and easy.  I hope we can make it back to CMP in the future.

I will say on Saturday the sudden silence seemed deafening & knew something wasn't good.  Glad everything went well & the driver was OK. 

-mike

30 (edited by gus 2019-05-02 01:11 PM)

Re: 24hr@CMP Afterthoughts from Rookie Team

VKZ24 wrote:

Since there doesn't seem to be another CMP 24 race thread, for those who were there, any update on the driver who was injured Saturday afternoon?  I think he was on the Jerry Curl Racing team who was fielding a Taurus SHO.

When I saw the red flag I new it was serious, but when it was quiet and I heard the helicopter, my heart just sank.   HQ announced over the PA the driver was conscious and aware enough to oppose the helicopter ride (HQ insisted he take it), but I didn't hear any updates afterwards.

BTW, regarding the red flag, I wasn't driving at the time, but I was watching from the hot pits.  I was quite impressed that all the drivers (within my view) handled it exactly as they should have.  You might say what the big deal, but we've had red flag drills during my club's HPDE events, and more than a few drivers drove by several stations before they stopped.  Kudos to all my fellow Lemons racers who know what the flags mean, and how to react appropriately.

Damn, I hope the driver is doing ok now. This is probably a good time to bring up helicopter insurance. It doesn't seem very common for people who track cars, but is pretty popular amount moto people, street or track. At $65/year for a household (if you use the coupon codes floating around on forums) it's cheap peace of mind.

Re: 24hr@CMP Afterthoughts from Rookie Team

gus wrote:

This is probably a good time to bring up helicopter insurance. It doesn't seem very common for people who track cars, but is pretty popular amount moto people, street or track. At $65/year for a household (if you use the coupon codes floating around on forums) it's cheap peace of mind.

I had no idea there was even such a thing a 'helicopter insurance'!  Got a link?

I once spoke with a guy who's a paramedic on a life flight copter who told me typical bill could be at LEAST $15K, but likely more.  I assumed that's why the guy was refusing the ride, but HQ insisted he take it.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

32 (edited by gus 2019-05-02 05:24 PM)

Re: 24hr@CMP Afterthoughts from Rookie Team

VKZ24 wrote:

I had no idea there was even such a thing a 'helicopter insurance'!  Got a link?

I once spoke with a guy who's a paramedic on a life flight copter who told me typical bill could be at LEAST $15K, but likely more.  I assumed that's why the guy was refusing the ride, but HQ insisted he take it.

$15k sounds cheap! Moto people I hear of getting lifted usually get billed $30-40k. Some health insurance cover the first $10k or so. It should (hopefully) be pretty rare with our kind of racing, but maybe the helicopter insurance people should be advertising to us too.

For a link with a coupon code, see here: https://www.bayarearidersforum.com/foru … p?t=510703
AirMedCare have a coverage map on their website that you can check out to see what's around you. I know CA coverage is quite good.

Re: 24hr@CMP Afterthoughts from Rookie Team

Hey guys. The driver of the SHO was discharged Saturday night, yeah. No broken bones, lots of bruising, lots of soreness. He complained of chest pain when the emergency crews arrived after he'd crashed, so the track workers decided immediately that he needed transportation. The nearest trauma center is a 45-minute ambulance ride, so the helicopter (~1/3 of the time) was the obvious choice. The initial impact was on the driver's door and the car had been built with NASCAR-style door bars that made a world of difference, we think.

***

As for Biffle's Crown Vic in Class B...it had been B at PittRace and I didn't think it was significantly cheaty enough to bump it up. The suspension looked and acted like OEM P71 replacements and it was a stock single-cam Mod engine as far as I could see. Yeah, a manual makes it a bit quicker, but it wasn't grossly cheaty in my eyes. They still needed to not step on their dicks and keep the car on the track.

As it turns out, the thing that you learn most from decades of racing professionally is the old adage "To finish first, first you must finish." The whole team were really well organized and knew that their jobs were:

(1) Keep the car out on the track with no black flags.
(2) Drive with lots of mechanical sympathies.
(3) Make efficient pit stops.

Aside from Biffle, none of them was really a rock star in the car and a 1:55 from a professional driver doesn't smack of a car rippled with cheats. I'd guess most pros could have wrung that out of a couple dozen cars at the track (many of which were in B). The team was basically a pro, a couple of good amateur drivers, and a couple of acceptable amateur drivers who didn't take risks. They won because they had their shit together on a level that very, very few Lemons teams do.

It's worth noting that the Class B winner from Barber—having graduated to Class A—finished three laps ahead of Biffle with the 37th-quickest lap of the race. Outright quickest-lap speed doesn't really mean a whole lot in endurance racing. I'm not flush with free time, but if anyone wants to assemble the MyLaps data, I bet the Crown Vic's average lap times aren't spectacular.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

Re: 24hr@CMP Afterthoughts from Rookie Team

therood wrote:

Hey guys. The driver of the SHO was discharged Saturday night, yeah. No broken bones, lots of bruising, lots of soreness. He complained of chest pain when the emergency crews arrived after he'd crashed, so the track workers decided immediately that he needed transportation. The nearest trauma center is a 45-minute ambulance ride, so the helicopter (~1/3 of the time) was the obvious choice. The initial impact was on the driver's door and the car had been built with NASCAR-style door bars that made a world of difference, we think.


Thanks for the update Eric, and we're all glad to hear the driver will be OK.  Does anyone know what actually happened?  That's not a part of the track you'd expect an off, hence why there wasn't a barrier, so I'm just curious.


I'm fine getting beat by a pro like Biffle as long as he's not an ass, and he's a nice guy.   My guess is he's just a regular guy that just likes to come out and play like the rest of us, and just not take it all too serious.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: 24hr@CMP Afterthoughts from Rookie Team

I wish more Nascar guys would come out and run with us, I mean we can sit back and tell the stories to our kids and grandkids about how we raced door to door with the Biff or Randy Pobst or John Andretti, come on Nascar step it up or are you scared?  wink

2010, 26th @ CMP, 2011, 10th & 5th at CMP, 2012? (MIA), 2013 Spring CMP, 53rd, 2013 Fall CMP 44th, 2014 Barber 14th, 2014 CMP 46th, 2015 CMP 57th, 2015 CMP 80th, 2016 CMP 16th, 3rd in B class, Winner Judges choice, and First car under 2.0 liter Alex's lemon aide stand winner. 2017 WRL, Road Atlanta 43rd, 2017 NCM 9th O/A , 1st in B class, 2018 CMP 13th O/A 3rd in Class B

Re: 24hr@CMP Afterthoughts from Rookie Team

Wait Biffle was the crown vic that was driving through the rain at Pitt like the rest of us were going backward and still got B at CMP?

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: 24hr@CMP Afterthoughts from Rookie Team

Guildenstern wrote:

Wait Biffle was the crown vic that was driving through the rain at Pitt like the rest of us were going backward and still got B at CMP?

Yes. Biffle was driving at Pitt in the Crown Vic.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C x2 and IOE winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

Re: 24hr@CMP Afterthoughts from Rookie Team

VKZ24 wrote:
therood wrote:

Hey guys. The driver of the SHO was discharged Saturday night, yeah. No broken bones, lots of bruising, lots of soreness. He complained of chest pain when the emergency crews arrived after he'd crashed, so the track workers decided immediately that he needed transportation. The nearest trauma center is a 45-minute ambulance ride, so the helicopter (~1/3 of the time) was the obvious choice. The initial impact was on the driver's door and the car had been built with NASCAR-style door bars that made a world of difference, we think.


Thanks for the update Eric, and we're all glad to hear the driver will be OK.  Does anyone know what actually happened?  That's not a part of the track you'd expect an off, hence why there wasn't a barrier, so I'm just curious.


I'm fine getting beat by a pro like Biffle as long as he's not an ass, and he's a nice guy.   My guess is he's just a regular guy that just likes to come out and play like the rest of us, and just not take it all too serious.


From the little I could see (check the video I posted above), and the skid marks I saw...I would say the two cars got tangled up for some reason (mechanical or driver error) and he got pointed off track at the wrong spot.  Once on the grass at that speed he was just along for the ride.

Re: 24hr@CMP Afterthoughts from Rookie Team

VKZ24 wrote:
therood wrote:

Hey guys. The driver of the SHO was discharged Saturday night, yeah. No broken bones, lots of bruising, lots of soreness. He complained of chest pain when the emergency crews arrived after he'd crashed, so the track workers decided immediately that he needed transportation. The nearest trauma center is a 45-minute ambulance ride, so the helicopter (~1/3 of the time) was the obvious choice. The initial impact was on the driver's door and the car had been built with NASCAR-style door bars that made a world of difference, we think.


Thanks for the update Eric, and we're all glad to hear the driver will be OK.  Does anyone know what actually happened?  That's not a part of the track you'd expect an off, hence why there wasn't a barrier, so I'm just curious.


I'm fine getting beat by a pro like Biffle as long as he's not an ass, and he's a nice guy.   My guess is he's just a regular guy that just likes to come out and play like the rest of us, and just not take it all too serious.

From the footage I saw, it looked like a little driver to driver miscommunication through the gentle kink going into 8. Although that run is effectively a straight, there is a slight bend to it, and if you stay to the left side of the track (exit from 7 and entry to 8) a lot of drivers would cut towards the center of the track in this bend. It looked to me like the SHO driver did this while passing the sentra, but the sentra did not move over as much. Effectively, they were driving to different 'racing lanes' and the Sho driver didn't clear the sentra. That's a pretty fast part of the track, and it looks like the SHO driver did not have a chance to recover the car when he got effectively pit maneuvered. 

This is just what I took away from the video, so take it with a grain of salt. That said, I had a number of times going through that kink where gaps would open or close depending on what drivers took to be the racing line through there as there seemed to be different opinions about how much to cut that. It just goes to show that we all need to be looking out for one another out there because a simple pass of a slower car by a faster car on a "straight" can just that quickly end with somebody in the hospital.

Owner of the Knights Templar Neon
A&D of middling proportions

Re: 24hr@CMP Afterthoughts from Rookie Team

VanillaHaze wrote:

From the footage I saw, it looked like a little driver to driver miscommunication through the gentle kink going into 8..

Can you share the footage.  If not here, privately?

I can't see any reason to move to the right headed to T8 unless you are passing someone prior to the turn, though as you said, some people want to do that.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

41 (edited by iampkrfn 2019-05-03 02:03 PM)

Re: 24hr@CMP Afterthoughts from Rookie Team

I was sent this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbkyyhD … -MsWF8nmZs

42 (edited by VKZ24 2019-05-03 02:06 PM)

Re: 24hr@CMP Afterthoughts from Rookie Team

Really hard to tell from that far away, but VanillaHaze's explanation seems very plausible.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: 24hr@CMP Afterthoughts from Rookie Team

steve wrote:

I wish more Nascar guys would come out and run with us, I mean we can sit back and tell the stories to our kids and grandkids about how we raced door to door with the Biff or Randy Pobst or John Andretti, come on Nascar step it up or are you scared?  wink

FWIW, John Andretti has been fighting colon cancer for a couple years now and just announced it has returned.  He's a really nice guy.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

Re: 24hr@CMP Afterthoughts from Rookie Team

cheseroo wrote:
steve wrote:

I wish more Nascar guys would come out and run with us, I mean we can sit back and tell the stories to our kids and grandkids about how we raced door to door with the Biff or Randy Pobst or John Andretti, come on Nascar step it up or are you scared?  wink

FWIW, John Andretti has been fighting colon cancer for a couple years now and just announced it has returned.  He's a really nice guy.

Can confirm, John Andretti is a top-notch guy and someone who is easy to root for.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

Re: 24hr@CMP Afterthoughts from Rookie Team

We had a blast in the Miata. Made it to the last two hours and did not have a spare hub for the drivers side rear....well other than my street cars original 275k one. Night racing was a blast. I am looking on the calendar for more night racing. Mostly Champ car but there are some around.

Our 1990 miata with 187k needs some power. Unlike the coronet it does not win the drag races. Granted its real value was at $600 even with the shocks. However drag racing some of the other miatas it would loose even if I had a better run out of the coroner. Was up to 17th overall at some point. We had lost about an hour on track at that point due to our car trying to throw water pump belts and the gas tank having pressure(seems still an issue from another driver). Sounds like we get to go threw all the evap lines off the gas tank and replace it all.

Will say the Hankook Rs-4 wore better than our Federal RS-RR. So think next things will be some wider wheels and 225 hankooks.

Re: 24hr@CMP Afterthoughts from Rookie Team

That was probably overly kind of you to give us an explanation on why you classed as you did, Judge Rood.

Big Hug.

Re: 24hr@CMP Afterthoughts from Rookie Team

chaase wrote:
Guildenstern wrote:

Wait Biffle was the crown vic that was driving through the rain at Pitt like the rest of us were going backward and still got B at CMP?

Yes. Biffle was driving at Pitt in the Crown Vic.

And he got beat by a Saturn.

Class B is a hard class to compete in.

Apparently my name is really "Craigers".  Who knew?
We might be yellow, but at least we are slow
I'm a WINNER!

48

Re: 24hr@CMP Afterthoughts from Rookie Team

96Formula6spd wrote:

Our 1990 miata with 187k needs some power

trying to throw water pump belts

225 hankooks.

Emilio has been working on a 1.6 engine recently, it's not too stout but might have advantages when racing to a power-to-weight rule set as he is. We don't race power-to-weight rules. https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thread … ller-98417

A $600 1.6 probably makes 90whp. You can probably run 6 hours on a 24 gal fuel cell. Either do a pick-your-part engine swap with a Kia V6 or make your time up by not being in the pits. On a "normal" weekend you could do a single pit stop. This would be a big advantage at Gingerman with 8 minute paddock fueling stops. Less advantage at a hot-pit fueling track.

The water pump is driven by the timing belt so.....don't believe you.

The fast* Miata guys run 225s on 9" wide wheels, we do the same on the MR2 based on these jabronies claims and we're pretty happy with the results. We would have gone with 245 and 15x10 but we didn't want to do body work on the narrow fender Toyota.

(*Note, the actual fast Miata guys run 295 Hoosiers on 15x12 wheels, prohibited by our communist rulebook)

Re: 24hr@CMP Afterthoughts from Rookie Team

MDG wrote:

Emilio has been working on a 1.6 engine recently, it's not too stout but might have advantages when racing to a power-to-weight rule set as he is. We don't race power-to-weight rules. https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thread … ller-98417

A $600 1.6 probably makes 90whp. You can probably run 6 hours on a 24 gal fuel cell. Either do a pick-your-part engine swap with a Kia V6 or make your time up by not being in the pits. On a "normal" weekend you could do a single pit stop. This would be a big advantage at Gingerman with 8 minute paddock fueling stops. Less advantage at a hot-pit fueling track.

The water pump is driven by the timing belt so.....don't believe you.

The fast* Miata guys run 225s on 9" wide wheels, we do the same on the MR2 based on these jabronies claims and we're pretty happy with the results. We would have gone with 245 and 15x10 but we didn't want to do body work on the narrow fender Toyota.

Not planning on a full engine swap yet. My lkq is full of Miatas including 99 and vvt cars. Its where our $100 set of konis came from. So picking up a $400.40 1.8 is an idea. Might be a couple high mileage auto cars coming threw soon. They buy a lot of copart and iaai cars.

Right now were are going to pull the head on this one. With the few overheats it started to drink so water near the end. Seen this before as signs of a failing head gasket. Even if its not I don't want to find out 3 hours in on the next race weekend.

Miata Bp engines water pump is driven with the alternator belt of the crankshaft. Water pump is behind the timing belt so maybe why you think it runs off the timing belt. Our plastic timing belt cover was broke and pushing the water pump belt off. Once we removed that no more belt issues for the rest of the weekend.

Not planning of a fuel cell. Shoot our weak 1.6 would eat 6-7 gallons of gas in 1.5 hours and I know the gas pedal was pretty much welded to the floor. When we got the car the gas tank was rusted out. Ended up with a 1.8 gas tank as 1.6 tanks are harder to find. So gained 0.8 gallons extra. There are ideas to maybe race this car with other organizations and some only allow a couple extra gallons with a fuel cell.

15x9 are the way to go. Was kinda the plan but when you build a car from scratch staring in January (bought the car on the day before Thanksgiving of 2018) the piles of 15x6 wheels you have laying around from your daily/track miatas get the job done. Next race might be different. But budget was running thin. Also got to make a life choice on something else that is purple.

Things to do. Got the list and we got some time. Just taking a break for a month form many weekends trying to finish a race car. It did good considering after the cage was in we built a race car from scratch in 9 weekends. Still had a blast. And this car was way easier on consumables than a 1972 dodge coronet.

50

Re: 24hr@CMP Afterthoughts from Rookie Team

96Formula6spd wrote:

Miata Bp engines water pump is driven with the alternator belt of the crankshaft. Water pump is behind the timing belt so maybe why you think it runs off the timing belt.

I'm on crack, ignore me. Carry on!