Re: poll: Should we put new rings in this and run it

Looks like you made the right call....Great Stuff....Thanks for sharing the pics

Cordoba

Re: poll: Should we put new rings in this and run it

rozap_ wrote:

...we thought we were on fire...

No, that was the Avanti.

Good seeing you there!

1982 MG Metro 1300: IOE 2015 Pacific Northworst GP, Longest Distance 2010 Cd'L Box Wine Country Classic
1980 KV Mini 1: Worst of Show and Fright Pig Supremo 2009 Concours d'Lemons
1978 H Special: Second-Round Elimination 2010 Lemons Pinewood Derby at Sears Pointless
1967 SAAB 96: IOE 2012 Pacific Northworst GP, Organizer's Choice 2022 Hell on Wheels California Rally

Re: poll: Should we put new rings in this and run it

Major success for an Italian Lemons race car! Well done sir.

Captain of AFART Racing - 1987 and 1988 Toyota Supras
Captain of McDads/AFART Racing -1977 Lancia Scorpion (IOE Winner Sears Pointless 2021... wait, really?? YES, REALLY!!).
Captain of 42 Hours of MeLons (2013-14) - Vattenmelon Vagn 1984 Volvo 240, B-Class Winner: Arse-Freeze 2014

54 (edited by rozap_ 2022-08-04 01:59 PM)

Re: poll: Should we put new rings in this and run it

Ok, again!

We were back at ORP with the same engine, didn't touch it at all from the last race. We had all sorts of problems but again, self inflicted. We can't even blame uncle Enzo for our issues.

3 out of the 4 bolts holding the engine to the transmission vanished, leading us to wonder "why do we keep having to adjust the clutch slave cylinder to push farther?". That childlike wonder was shattered when the flywheel finally contacted the bellhousing and the engine "seized". Couldn't turn it by hand, and given some overheating problems we had earlier, we assumed the worst. So on Saturday afternoon after doing like 7 laps, we started disassembling it because, we're here and we're going to have to disassemble it anyway if the motor is toast. But after taking the axles out I look up and see the flywheel wedged into the side of the bellhousing. I look around some more and suddenly all the symptoms click in my tired, probably dehydrated brain. So we put it all back together and do 110 laps on Sunday, for an almost but not quite DFL class C finish.

https://i.postimg.cc/D0hR5wnD/DSCF5641.jpg

Car felt incredibly slow, but our best lap was better than last year. Brake upgrades worked well, so I wasn't contemplating my mortality at turn 8 every lap. I had a titanic battle with the beetle powered 911 and the peugot 505, and I crashed into a mustang. Also got home and unloaded the car, and realized the O2 sensor was unplugged the entire time. Cool!

Bought another X1/9 to help with our swap plans. We can work on the swap while leaving the racecar in one piece. A neat thing about the X1/9 is that they're all $500. That's right, every single one. I should buy 20 of them and start a spec series.

After getting home from ORP and contemplating how goddamn slow the car was (couldn't accelerate up the uphill parts of the track), I started cutting up an X1/9 to mock up our 98 car's ultimate fighting form.
https://i.postimg.cc/tTk8SHJ4/PXL-20220726-040217295.jpg

BSOD Racing, 1987 Fiat X1/9

Re: poll: Should we put new rings in this and run it

can you get file fit or oversize rings? I'd just clean it up and run it. If it is a little smokey just check the pugs after every race. Since it isn't a SBC, I'm guessing a bore and oversized pistons/rings are not available for peanuts.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

56 (edited by rozap_ 2022-07-27 09:38 AM)

Re: poll: Should we put new rings in this and run it

Regarding the OG engine, we haven't had any issues with oil consumption in either race. Though compression numbers are consistent, they are consistently low, at about 130psi vs 160psi for a healthy lampredi. We stuck a catch can in and have been checking it, and there's minimal blowby, so we haven't had any smoking issues at all.

the reason for the swap is just because 1) it's a bad idea and 2) that engine has been sitting in my shop for years (note the buildup of saw dust) and it's time to either use it for something or toss it 3) the current motor only put out around 70hp when it was new, and compression numbers and butt dyno make me think maybe 20 of those horses escaped.

In a straight drag race between the beetle powered porsche 996 (which iirc is like 2200 pounds, and the X1/9 should be around 1900) our car was marginally faster, but not by much. Their fastest lap was 1s up on us, but likely because they're better drivers. In any case, the car is comparable to a beetle powered 996, hence the beginnings of a swap.

BSOD Racing, 1987 Fiat X1/9

Re: poll: Should we put new rings in this and run it

I dont recognize what engine that is that you are going to swap in, but if it was me I would want an engine I could easily find in a local junkyard and get parts for on a Saturday night.

If you wanted to stay in the Fiat family, the Fiat Twin Cam engine would be awesome.

Team whatever_racecar #745 Volvo wagon

58 (edited by rozap_ 2022-08-04 02:00 PM)

Re: poll: Should we put new rings in this and run it

It's a 2.8L VR6. Found in all sorts of junkyard grade VW products.

I don't think it makes sense to keep it fiat due to junkyard availability. K20 would be the best choice but we're not going for best. Also everyone in the fiat world swaps in the K20, but I haven't seen anyone do a VR6. Are there good reasons for that? Probably. Do I know what they are? Not yet. But soon I'll know.

BSOD Racing, 1987 Fiat X1/9

Re: poll: Should we put new rings in this and run it

Fresh rings is a good start. oversize rings are possible, but need to cut the lip on the cylinder wall to clear them in. I do have good success rate with just putting a fresh set and putting fresh bearings. It does not give the max longevity as if full rebuild, but it seals it, adds to oil pressure and works just fine.
Before digging into it, probably good idea to check with leak down, or do the oil in cylinder trick to check compression leakage.
In most high mileage cars, it's the buildup on the back of a valve that cuts down on the power.

https://www.facebook.com/greatglobsofoil/
This car....Is said to have a will of it's Own. Twisting its own body in rage...It accelerates on.
1978 Opel/Buick Isuzu(C>B>C>B) , 1996 Nissan Maxima OnlyFans (B) , Sold 1996 Ford Probe GT(B),

Re: poll: Should we put new rings in this and run it

As a fellow confused vr6 swapper, I have heard that the middle cylinders get warm. Oil coolers have been advised.

That guy

Re: poll: Should we put new rings in this and run it

DirtyDuc wrote:

As a fellow confused vr6 swapper, I have heard that the middle cylinders get warm. Oil coolers have been advised.

Thanks for the tip. Yea the stock one sucks even on a street car, my corrado regularly sees oil temps of over 220 from light use. Do you have one that you're happy with for racing?

We're thinking we'll probably run two radiators. We oversized the existing one up front (it's from a scirocco) but it will be insufficient for the vr6, so we'll stick another one in the back.

BSOD Racing, 1987 Fiat X1/9

Re: poll: Should we put new rings in this and run it

rozap_ wrote:
DirtyDuc wrote:

As a fellow confused vr6 swapper, I have heard that the middle cylinders get warm. Oil coolers have been advised.

Thanks for the tip. Yea the stock one sucks even on a street car, my corrado regularly sees oil temps of over 220 from light use. Do you have one that you're happy with for racing?

We're thinking we'll probably run two radiators. We oversized the existing one up front (it's from a scirocco) but it will be insufficient for the vr6, so we'll stick another one in the back.

I have one from what I seem to recall was a Miata, that'll probably be my first stop. I don't think it has a thermostat, but I'm not sure that's really a concern on a racecar-thing that gets warmed up before being beaten.

That guy

Re: poll: Should we put new rings in this and run it

RX7s have large DIY junkyard available oil coolers with built-in in thermostat.  Racing Beat and/or Mazdatrix has fittings to convert to AN/JIC.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

64 (edited by rb92673 2022-08-02 01:39 PM)

Re: poll: Should we put new rings in this and run it

cheseroo wrote:

RX7s have large DIY junkyard available oil coolers with built-in in thermostat.  Racing Beat and/or Mazdatrix has fittings to convert to AN/JIC.

Volvo 740 Turbos have an oil cooler too. Sandwich plate has thermostat and uses common 3/4-16 thread.  It does use 1/2 BSP threads on the cooler, but there are -AN adapters.

Team whatever_racecar #745 Volvo wagon

Re: poll: Should we put new rings in this and run it

just going to leave this here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOmuPoZ-ObQ

BSOD Racing, 1987 Fiat X1/9

Re: poll: Should we put new rings in this and run it

rozap_ wrote:

just going to leave this here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOmuPoZ-ObQ

taking a page from the Priority Fail book of domination, I see

"THE WONDERMENT CONSORTIUM"
Everything dies baby that's a fact,
But maybe everything that dies someday comes back?

Re: poll: Should we put new rings in this and run it

derekste wrote:

taking a page from the Priority Fail book of domination, I see

I trust it worked out so well for them that they were banned from the series after too much winning. Much like the blue Corrado (which was 1.8t powered but we can ignore that detail).


https://i.imgur.com/H5EF02D.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/iBY9WnB.jpg

This is how it sits right now. Last touched it maybe 5 months ago, but after the race this weekend, I'll be able to cut the white car up and transfer it all over. And then the domination will truly begin.

BSOD Racing, 1987 Fiat X1/9

Re: poll: Should we put new rings in this and run it

I don’t have anything useful to add, but wanted to say thank you for posting up pics and results of your “rebuild”. I’m dealing with a fairly similar condition engine (rust in cylinder walls) and really wanna hone it and send it and this thread is making me feel much better about it! Where else but Lemons can you accumulate a log if “how much rust is too much rust to hone out in your garage “rebuilt” engine haha.

Full Ass Racing
#455 Piñata Miata - 1990 Miata
#735 BMDollhÜr 7Turdy5i - 1990 735i

Re: poll: Should we put new rings in this and run it

duthehustle93 wrote:

I don’t have anything useful to add, but wanted to say thank you for posting up pics and results of your “rebuild”. I’m dealing with a fairly similar condition engine (rust in cylinder walls) and really wanna hone it and send it and this thread is making me feel much better about it! Where else but Lemons can you accumulate a log if “how much rust is too much rust to hone out in your garage “rebuilt” engine haha.

Glad I could help lower your standards. It helps to also lower you expectations as well.

Car has been cut up. Waiting on a few bits and pieces and then the engine can go in.
https://i.postimg.cc/XNrgRJMs/fiat.jpg

BSOD Racing, 1987 Fiat X1/9

Re: poll: Should we put new rings in this and run it

doot doot
https://i.postimg.cc/CMt32pPZ/P-20231203-172648.jpg

BSOD Racing, 1987 Fiat X1/9

Re: poll: Should we put new rings in this and run it

As owner of a mid engine swapped street car ( V8 Corvair) I have concerns about the proposed cooling system.

Amongst us with swapped Corvairs, there are 2 groups, ones with front mount radiators, others with rear, the guys with rear have the least luck keeping cool while moving, air is much harder to manage in the back... Have yo considered rad in the front?

Just trying to help.

Homestead Chump 5th-Sebring 6th-PBIR Lemons 9th - Charlotte Chump  CrashnBurn 9th
Sebring 6th again -NOLA Chump 1st -PBIR Chump Trans Fail 16th
Daytona 11th - Sebring 6th - Atlanta Motor Speedway 2nd - Road Atlanta Trans Fail 61st-Road Atlanta 5th
Daytona 13th - Charlotte 9th - Sebring 2nd-Charlotte 25th broken brakes - Road Atlanta 14 10th-Daytona 14  58th- Humid TT 19th Judges' Choice!

Re: poll: Should we put new rings in this and run it

There is a rad in the front, we just added an extra one in the back for more capacity. The small rad is hooked into the heater core loop. We're space limited up front so we decided to add another. It won't get as much airflow as the front one, but we are planning to add a duct to it over the top of the car.

Do the swapped corvairs run two rads or do you mean the guys that have issues just have a single one in the back? Because that would be challenging.

BSOD Racing, 1987 Fiat X1/9

Re: poll: Should we put new rings in this and run it

rozap_ wrote:

There is a rad in the front, we just added an extra one in the back for more capacity. The small rad is hooked into the heater core loop. We're space limited up front so we decided to add another. It won't get as much airflow as the front one, but we are planning to add a duct to it over the top of the car.

Do the swapped Corvairs run two rads or do you mean the guys that have issues just have a single one in the back? Because that would be challenging.

That's a second rad? Awesome!!!

In rear or mid engine V8 Corvair land, we only run one rad, some folks, for ease/packaging reasons, attempt rear rads, it can be done, but it is far from the easy button, airflow dynamics go rabbit hole quickly.

Homestead Chump 5th-Sebring 6th-PBIR Lemons 9th - Charlotte Chump  CrashnBurn 9th
Sebring 6th again -NOLA Chump 1st -PBIR Chump Trans Fail 16th
Daytona 11th - Sebring 6th - Atlanta Motor Speedway 2nd - Road Atlanta Trans Fail 61st-Road Atlanta 5th
Daytona 13th - Charlotte 9th - Sebring 2nd-Charlotte 25th broken brakes - Road Atlanta 14 10th-Daytona 14  58th- Humid TT 19th Judges' Choice!

74 (edited by rozap_ 2024-01-02 02:05 PM)

Re: poll: Should we put new rings in this and run it

Team Infinniti wrote:
rozap_ wrote:

There is a rad in the front, we just added an extra one in the back for more capacity. The small rad is hooked into the heater core loop. We're space limited up front so we decided to add another. It won't get as much airflow as the front one, but we are planning to add a duct to it over the top of the car.

Do the swapped Corvairs run two rads or do you mean the guys that have issues just have a single one in the back? Because that would be challenging.

That's a second rad? Awesome!!!

In rear or mid engine V8 Corvair land, we only run one rad, some folks, for ease/packaging reasons, attempt rear rads, it can be done, but it is far from the easy button, airflow dynamics go rabbit hole quickly.

Makes sense. Current plan is to make a shitty fiberglass engine cover that has a duct on top of the car to feed the radiator and oil cooler. Process for actually making this is TBD...

Some more progress pics. Swivel AN lines freak me out...i feel like they're just going to leak?

https://i.postimg.cc/ZqRzHy4N/P-20231210-141128.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/m2Y4gsmP/P-20231230-174554.jpg

Display for the dash. This will have an stm32 which is reading the serial telemetry output from the speeduino.
https://i.postimg.cc/0y9s6B4c/P-20231230-162656.jpg
Wires are happening.
https://i.postimg.cc/YC8wQxKk/P-20231231-165505.jpg

BSOD Racing, 1987 Fiat X1/9

75 (edited by rozap_ 2024-01-04 10:18 AM)

Re: poll: Should we put new rings in this and run it

Made a firewall panel. Top portion needs to be removable to get at the alternator/oil fittings/etc. Mounted the relay box on the bottom portion which is not removable. Printing an enclosure for the ECU that will go next to it.
https://i.postimg.cc/Ss8F62Yk/P-20240103-205418.jpg

BSOD Racing, 1987 Fiat X1/9