Radio Tips (Page 1 of 2)

Hey Charles. I've put together an Amazon list as a reasonably priced, GMRS based communications kit. I don't make any money if anyone buys of this list, it's purely informational: https://www.amazon.com/ideas/amzn1.acco … cp_vl_ov_d

All you have to worry about is getting a GMRS license. Technically everyone on your team should (if they aren't family members) but that's pretty fudge-able.

As for "Lemons" channels: there's no such thing. Lemons sells Rugged Radios that are pre-programmed to business band channels that require a license you won't be able to get. They've called them "Lemons" in the name but there's nothing about them that is specific to Lemons. Can you still use them? Yes, but not legally. And Lemons won't be there to back you up if you get in trouble for doing so.

I HIGHLY recommend sticking to GMRS.

As for the mechanics of it... we mount the radio in the car, then each driver has a helmet kit that has a plug pigtail sticking out. That get connected to the radio pigtail. There's also a button on the steering wheel that you use to push-to-talk. Then, of course, an antenna on the roof. Typically magnetic mount, but you can also drill a hole and install them that way...

You have a few good options for radios, depending on how much you value your time/effort.

Option 1, Easy, $600+ -> Buy a complete setup from the Sampson Racing Radios (Lemons store, Rugged Radios for lower quality). Plug it all together and go racing.

Option 2, Moderate Effort, $200+ -> Piece together a DIY plug and play setup using the good suggestions from Aaron. Programming radios isn't too hard, especially if you can get a file from someone. You will eventually have issues with connectors and cables so get some spares.

Option 3, High Effort+Quality, $250+ -> Take Option 2 and replace all the connectors with quality made-for-purpose connectors. Build your own in-car harness for the PTT button and the helmet headset jack extension cable. Here's an Amazon list of what I used for the two cars I've run in Lemons: http://a.co/e0cdXQw
I use quality brand-name 1/4" connectors from DigiKey as those Amazon ones fail eventually:
https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=sc3486-nd
https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=sc1040-nd

I went for option 3 since electronics is what I do all day, and I ended up with a higher quality system than the expensive setups from Option 1. It will take a good few hours of careful soldering, splicing, heat-shrinking though.

I've started piecing together a digital radio system using components sourced directly from China, but that list isn't ready for prime-time yet. The quality and range of a digital system is very encouraging though.

Some general tips for radio systems:
- All the options above use the exact same radios. The $85 blue "Rugged" radios are just pre-programmed Bagfeng UV-5R's which are $25 on Amazon. Learn to program radios and save yourself $60 per radio. Charging a premium for pre-programming illegal frequencies is deceptive and I wouldn't encourage it.
- Have extra components on hand for Option 2 or 3 (and 1 if you're made of money). I carry a few extra helmet headsets and car harnesses to each race because they are cheap insurance if something fails.
- A quality brand name roof mount antenna will do wonders for your reception at the track.
- For the sake of yours and everyone else's sanity, use BCL (Busy Channel Lockout). This blocks your from stepping over others on your frequency. If you transmit over someone there's a good change your message won't be received at the other end, so it's best to just transmit when the channel is clear.
- We used to hard-wire our radio into the cars 12V system, but found it a pain to not have radio comms during red flags or starting grids when the car was off. We just use the battery in the radio now and it lasts all day.
- Radios fail sometimes, have regular check-ins and discuss a backup communications strategy with your drivers.
- Mount the radio within reach of the driver so they can adjust the volume to their sensitive ears

Another option is to buy a pair of Baofeng's UV-5Rs via Amazon, along with a battery eliminator, and external antenna.  Next contact Troy at Nerdie Racing and he will sell you a wiring harness for the car, and kit's for each driver's helmet.  He's a fellow Lemons racer, and he's BTDT, and know what works and what doesn't.

I second having backup supplies.  Even with their unlimited budget, even the NASCAR boys have radio problems quite often.  Radios just seem to be a fickle b*tch sometimes.  We keep a spare of just about everything.

If you are a by-the-book rule's type group, you'll technically need an FCC license to operate the Baofeng's legally on the non FRS frequencies.  In reality, as long as you don't step on any of the first responder frequencies, you'll more than likely be just fine.  Most of the first responders are digital anyway, but I guess it's still possible to interfere. 

Unlike some teams who like to read the stock reports, discuss the weather, debate the next election, etc over the radio, we use the radio to tell the driver when we are ready for him to pit.  The driver typically only radios if he has a problem so we can be ready to assist.  Translation, we probably have a total air time of 10 minutes over the entire weekend.

As for the debate do you need a radio or not, IMO it's a must have.

To be clear, the Baofengs are only legal to use on the amateur 70cm and 2m frequencies and each user must have an amateur license, they are not legal to use on FRS, GMRS, MURS, etc.  That being said, if you stick to the GMRS frequencies you will probably never get caught.  I have never heard anyone use a call sign on any of those and they don't travel far at 5 watts.  We used GMRS for our first few races on Baofengs.

The UV-5RTP supposedly is 8 watts versus 5 watts for extra power.  Get an antenna like the Nagoya NA-771 or NA-701 and it will work a lot better, the stock antenna sucks.

A couple of us on my team have amateur licenses and switched to the amateur bands.  Nerdie racing made me a great harness and a bunch of helmet kits for us.

I will be the naysayer.  We stopped using radios in the traditional sense and few other teams have as well.  Truth is, it was a hassle.  Same reason we use a cool seat instead of a cool shirt...no extra connections.

Clock on the dash (or in the dash) tells you when to come in.

Radio in reach of the driver...hit the music button if you are coming in early.

Yes.

Never felt the need for a radio.

I would recommend that new teams focus on other, much more important stuff, first.

I'd have to say that at the tracks we typically run (CMP, Barber, RA) my team could have a pit board that was a 4'x8' sheet of plywood with flashing lights and I'd never see it at speed.

We use radios, but when they flake out, which is about 10% of the time, we use the clock in the car as a backup plan.

Totally agree on the personal preference.

Lack of two way radio communication has caused no additional stress on my team.  We had a (mostly) well functioning setup for years but then...as drivers cycled in and out and started running two cars more often it grew to be a hassle with little to no value. 

If you are coming in on the hook...what are we going to do until you get here?  If you are coming into the penalty box, we will still meet you there.  If you are coming in early due to issues...hit the button mentioned (actually, supposed to do that no matter what if coming in).

Not sure what the stressor for you is but we have not experienced it.

We have run three races without using the radios and I'd say if you are a newbie  team,  then it isn't needed.  If you are trying to WIN then you need them to cut time off your pit stops.  Otherwise a clock does the job and if you come in early, someone will notice sooner or later..

If you watched my video, you will see my approach is using speakers for output and a throat mic that is shared for input, so nobody has to jack up their helmet or worry about compatibility, and this makes it
simple and cheap.
This setup is not good for conversation, but works to pass messages.

It was all setup for the last race, but we didn't bother to use it.   
Probably going to use it for the next race, as this time we are going for the WIN. 

The stress for us came from the daytona days when we broke a lot. We had a few races where the radios didn't work right, and something would happen, the car would come in, and the driver would find that everyone was off somewhere else trying to watch the race, so they had to get out and fix the car alone until someone else noticed the car wasn't on track anymore and came back. It was annoying. And other things like trying to find your team mates on the hot pits when everyone out there has the same blue suit and white helmet, we've had the driver blow by the waiting crew before.

It's just nicer to have the radios for us. Everyone grabs a radio if they leave the garage now, so if something happens they can hear and come back. For fueling stops the driver can be told exactly where to look. If something is funky with the car the driver can report back and ask if it's worth coming in or not. All around it just makes race weekend easier on us.

Like I said, we aren't on the radio much at all. We radio check the driver when they get in. They'll call in once or twice with car status updates if they feel like it. At the end of the stint we'll call the driver to say we're walking to the hot pits, and then again to say we're ready for them and where we are. that's mostly it. But those small bits of communication do help us out a lot. I get that not everyone needs it, and that's cool.

We have struggled with radios and almost given up with them. I think you need at least one person dedicated to maintenance, making sure everyone has their helmet kits and that they are all working etc. My theory (mostly out of frustration) was that if we need to radio in we are out of contention anyway as our chances of winning require a perfect race with no additional stops at all. We will keep tying to get a good working solution.  We did manage to sneak an overall win without working radios because everything did go right. We got damn lucky, I went out first and realized that there were some small adjustments to brake bias and suspension that needed to be made for the next driver and would have struggled to get these done without losing time. Luckily as my pit window opened up the track went black for 30 minutes giving me ample time to make the adjustments. If we had radios and the track stayed hot I could have at least had the team prepped to make the adjustments.
I see them now as a necessary evil!

Things like that are why I've never considered using a battery eliminator. I want the radio to work when the car is off, or if wiring fails, or whatever. The standard battery from the UV-5R lasts all weekend for us even now that it's 5 years old.

However, the UV-5R will charge while on in the charging base. I've been meaning to pull a charging base apart and build it into a car mount so i can run the charger with a battery and have the best of both worlds.