1 Topic by King 1 (edited by King 1 2019-10-16 09:06 AM)

  • From: near Bellingham, WA
  • Registered: 2019-09-10
  • Posts: 71

Topic: Other race tracks

I'm pretty much a total noob to this whole scene so maybe this has come up before but the new 2020 schedule got me wondering.  Why aren't there more races at more tracks?  I'm up in the northwest corner, so I'm extremely pleased that The Ridge is on the list, but if I wanted to race additional races, the next nearest races to my house are in the 900+ mile range. 

Portland, OR and Seattle (Kent anyway) both have large road courses that seem like they would be suitable for Lemons.  I'm a literal outlier but looking at a map it seems like there is a large portion of the country (and lets not forget Canada) for whom Seattle or Portland would be their nearest (or second nearest) race, if those were options.

I don't mean to sound whiny.  I'm not complaining so much as curious.  Is it a matter of projected attendance?  If there were more of a demand for venues up here, would that increase the likelihood of it happening?  Are a lot of people who race at The Ridge already coming up from California?  Is PIR a bunch of turds?

Anyway, thanks for humoring me smile


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2 Reply by Spank (edited by Spank 2019-10-16 09:53 AM)

  • Spank
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  • From: Escondido, CA
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Re: Other race tracks

From my basic understanding, Jeff Glenn of HQ is the one who evaluates tracks for their viability for the unique demands that a Lemons race brings to an event. The most basic is whether or not the track is safe (which entails far more than my pea brain can comprehend beginning with the racing surface on to the proximity of emergency facilities) and whether or not the facility's infrastructure can support the number of participants.

In tandem with that is the financial viability of holding an event there.

There is also the issue of if track will want to both host the event attended by anti-prestigious cars, and if the personalities involved in both running the track and running the Lemons show actually can get along. There's a lot of ego involved when the Top Dogs of two different entities get together in a room to hash things out.

edit:

There's also the matter of scheduling and staffing the event to meet that schedule.  If you REALLY wanted to see a particular facility on the Lemons calendar for any given year, you could probably do a bunch of pot stirring yourself by approaching your favorite facility, finding out some of the basics:
Do They Want Lemons? What dates do they have available for the upcoming (2021) season? How many vehicles / participants can their paddock hold? What costs are involved in using their facility? Once you have this information, you can reach out to Lemons HQ with that much of the leg work done and see if they are interested.

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  • Registered: 2013-08-12
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Re: Other race tracks

Another things that excludes a bunch of tracks is paddock access.  The paddock for some track is in the infield of the track and accessed by crossing the track itself.  This won't work for endurance races where you have to be able to leave the facility to go on parts and fuel runs.

  • From: South of Chicago
  • Registered: 2011-11-26
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Re: Other race tracks

rlchv70 wrote:

Another things that excludes a bunch of tracks is paddock access.  The paddock for some track is in the infield of the track and accessed by crossing the track itself.  This won't work for endurance races where you have to be able to leave the facility to go on parts and fuel runs.


Yes, this one eliminates dozens of club tracks from consideration.

  • From: Seattle, WA
  • Registered: 2009-10-28
  • Posts: 2,110

Re: Other race tracks

King 1 wrote:

Portland, OR and Seattle (Kent anyway) both have large road courses that seem like they would be suitable for Lemons.

I'm in Seattle, so I've contemplated the same thing over the years. Very much unofficial rumor has it that Lemons is unhappy with the safety of one of the corners at Pacific Raceways, so it's a no-go. Lemons did try scheduling a race at PIR in 2012 but cancelled due to (again, unofficial rumor) some combination of too few entries, a forecast of ice storms, and perhaps something about the facility. They've never tried again; I don't know why. Another Pacific Northwest option is Oregon Raceway Park, which did actually host the very first PNW Lemons race in 2012, but it's apparently just a little too far out in the middle of nowhere with respect to emergency medical response (once again, unofficially speaking).

Whatever the actual reasons may be, whenever I've asked Lemons HQ about those three tracks in particular, the answer was some variation of "yeah, probably not" with a certain reluctance to discuss specifics, so there may very well be other factors at play.

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  • erich
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  • From: Vancouver BC
  • Registered: 2011-12-09
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Re: Other race tracks

Seattle repaved the back half of the track last year and fixed the safety issues with corners 5a and 5b.  It's a tremendous amount of fun now.  You still need to be careful coming out of turn 9, the runoff there is not fun.
The paddock is huge, but the hot pits are terrible and far away.  There are strict noise regulations, no race motors after 6pm or before 9am.

I'm not sure how Lemons would fare there, it's a power track now.

7 Reply by nimblemotorsports (edited by nimblemotorsports 2019-10-16 11:26 AM)

  • From: Sacramento, California
  • Registered: 2012-08-02
  • Posts: 354

Re: Other race tracks

I wonder why there are actually so few races in general, but certainly on the west coast, where there are lots of people and don't seem to be lack of entries. 
Only 1 sonoma race and 1 thunderhill race for entire year?   

Although I must say, it isn't cheap, but why build and maintain a racecar to run twice a year?

Note the fire system and belts have to be renewed every 2 years, you get 4 races out of you expense?
And tires go bad just sitting too.

Towing long distances at 55mph towing speed is not fun either.

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Re: Other race tracks

nimblemotorsports wrote:

I wonder why there are actually so few races in general, but certainly on the west coast, where there are lots of people and don't seem to be lack of entries. 
Only 1 sonoma race and 1 thunderhill race for entire year?   

Although I must say, it isn't cheap, but why build and maintain a racecar to run twice a year?

Note the fire system and belts have to be renewed every 2 years, you get 4 races out of you expense?
And tires go bad just sitting too.

Towing long distances at 55mph towing speed is not fun either.

There are 5 races within a long days tow of my house on the 2020 schedule. Running lots of races is fun for some, I'd personally like to get it together to run 3 yearly. We did that back in 2015. Any more than that it starts to feel like a job. An expensive job, rather than a fun diversion. That's just my take. Coming from someone who has OK income but not anything amazing. With FU money, yeah, I'd probably want to race monthly.

Towing long distances isn't a blast, but I do this with a bunch of old friends. A day spent ROFLMAO with my buddies riding down the highway listening to comedy and classic rock beats any day working I can remember... The track time is better than the hauling,  but there are worse ways to pass the time.

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  • From: NH
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Re: Other race tracks

3 is our magic number. More than that is just too expensive and way too taxing on our time to prep cars. We've done 4 in a year, and it's fun, but it's taxing. Next year there are 4 races inside our towing range, and we'll be picking 3.

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  • VKZ24
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Re: Other race tracks

TheEngineer wrote:

3 is our magic number. More than that is just too expensive and way too taxing on our time to prep cars. We've done 4 in a year, and it's fun, but it's taxing. Next year there are 4 races inside our towing range, and we'll be picking 3.

We've been doing four, but I'd like to do more.  The problem is a lot of the ones within our reasonable towing distance are spaced (calendar-wise) too close together.  We can't afford back to back events, and if we blow up (or whatever) and can't make the next one, we're hosed out of that $$$ since Lemons doesn't do refunds.

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  • bilcoh
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Re: Other race tracks

Hey King1:

I've got nothing to add about the "Why" so few races up here, other than that I'm guessing others are correct in their assessments.  I definitely think attendance must be part of it.  50'ish cars in summer, only 29 at the last race.  So I'm guessing they'd like to see it build before trying to add another venue. 

Our team's in a similar boat to you, being in Seattle and having the only other options being NorCal or further.

We've run the two events at The Ridge this year.  Well, tried anyway, but two blown engines in the first hour of each race and we've yet to do our first Lemons fuel stop.  Lemons Gods hate us.

We found another series that has several events in the NW.  One at The Ridge, one at Pacific Raceways, two at PIR and one at ORP.  We have a car that, if it ever cooperates, is probably lower Class A for Lemons, and Class C for the other series (in which we've run 75% of the available laps, so go figure).  So that's given us plenty of options, mostly within a 3 hour tow. 

The other series is a very different vibe than Lemons.  We've liked the fun and casualness of Lemons, though the other is very well run, with good people, good racing, and we're definitely going to continue.  But, it's focused on the racing.  No theme cars, but we're finding our way in our definitely Lemons-worthy Rx7.

So there's another perspective and option depending on what you might be looking for.  I'm not sure everyone believes you can have a car that runs both series.  I guess we actually don't, given the engine carnage.  But we'll figure it out someday, then......Lemons Domination.

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