Topic: Hankook Tires required for LD races in 2020

That other endurance racing league in the northwest is going to require all cars use only Hankook RS-4 tires.    That seems pretty draconian.   Lemons isn't going to follow suit and require Yokohoma tires anytime soon I hope.

Re: Hankook Tires required for LD races in 2020

nimblemotorsports wrote:

Lemons isn't going to follow suit and require Yokohoma tires anytime soon I hope.

That seems rather unlikely, I hope, as it would bring about the end of people racing unusual cars/trucks/motorhomes/etc. with "nonstandard" tire sizes, as well as create another up-front cost barrier to getting started in the series.

1982 MG Metro 1300: IOE 2015 Pacific Northworst GP, Longest Distance 2010 Cd'L Box Wine Country Classic
1980 KV Mini 1: Worst of Show and Fright Pig Supremo 2009 Concours d'Lemons
1978 H Special: Second-Round Elimination 2010 Lemons Pinewood Derby at Sears Pointless
1967 SAAB 96: IOE 2012 Pacific Northworst GP

Re: Hankook Tires required for LD races in 2020

nimblemotorsports wrote:

That other endurance racing league in the northwest is going to require all cars use only Hankook RS-4 tires.    That seems pretty draconian.   Lemons isn't going to follow suit and require Yokohoma tires anytime soon I hope.

If I read the press release correctly, I think you can run any tires you want. If you don’t run R-S4’s, you cannot compete for the series championship. Hankook sponsorship provides discounts on the most commonly used tires in the series and has a contingency program to boot. I call it win-win. 

I have raced in other spec tire series. Other than having to figure out a new tire, it has always been a good thing and made racing less expensive.

Re: Hankook Tires required for LD races in 2020

I read it as 'required' didn't see any exceptions, except if you don't have LDRL stamped RS-4's you cant podium or get prizes.   

I don't like rules and restrictions,
Lemons has the least which is what I like about it.  But 2 races a year is not enough in norcal for me.

5 (edited by Guildenstern 2019-10-20 05:02 PM)

Re: Hankook Tires required for LD races in 2020

billy bee wrote:
nimblemotorsports wrote:

That other endurance racing league in the northwest is going to require all cars use only Hankook RS-4 tires.    That seems pretty draconian.   Lemons isn't going to follow suit and require Yokohoma tires anytime soon I hope.

If I read the press release correctly, I think you can run any tires you want. If you don’t run R-S4’s, you cannot compete for the series championship. Hankook sponsorship provides discounts on the most commonly used tires in the series and has a contingency program to boot. I call it win-win. 

I have raced in other spec tire series. Other than having to figure out a new tire, it has always been a good thing and made racing less expensive.

"Starting in January 2020, Lucky Dog Racing League/Powered by Hankook Competition teams will be required to run Hankook’s Ventus R-S4 tire, "

Nope captive tire selection. Also you have to deface the car with Hankook stickers too.

Also the full name of the series is: Lucky Dog Racing Leauge/Powered by Hankook Competition. So the correct abbreviation should be LDRL/PHC or you know, just call it Spec E30.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Hankook Tires required for LD races in 2020

I emailed them, and he said:
"Starting in 2020 all cars are required to run marked Hankook R-S4 tires purchased through Hankook Motorsports. If other tires are fitted the car will be ineligible for podium finishes or contingency tires and will be classed accordingly."

So looks like you can fit other tires and still run (but maybe not still 'race'..)  I will guess the language means at some point they will not allow other tires to run given the "required" language.

Re: Hankook Tires required for LD races in 2020

And do you still need to put all the ugly stickers on the car?

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Hankook Tires required for LD races in 2020

Guildenstern wrote:

And do you still need to put all the ugly stickers on the car?

I didn't ask about that.  I thought I read somewhere they must be attached before you pass tech.   
What was also annoying now they do 'rollcall' for drivers meeting.    I am looking into the other racing group, they have 4 races, thill, sonoma, bwillow, laguna, and their own quirks..

9 (edited by Guildenstern 2019-10-20 06:46 PM)

Re: Hankook Tires required for LD races in 2020

You can just say Chump. They require sponsor stickers too. And boy howdy if you don't like rules.....well...

Also I would NOT feel comfortable doing Chump or Lemons at Laguna. That corkscrew is no joke, and seeing how flaky it has been for them to get flag workers......nah.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Hankook Tires required for LD races in 2020

Just curious, but what do you mean difficult to get flag workers?

I am under the impression that the flag workers work for the facility being raced at, not for the series.

Ghetto motorsports - Car #555 1980 Mazda RX7 (3x winner of BFE GP / 1x 2nd place of BFE GP...BOO!)
Car #350 78 Chevy Malibu (Least horrible Yank Tank, Heroic Fix) (Gone)
Car # 556 1987 Mazda RX7 (6th place MMC 2013) (1st place Capitol Offense 2013)

Re: Hankook Tires required for LD races in 2020

So most teams in lucky dog were already running the RS-4 (because it's awesome), and getting a huge price discount seems like a win-win. They have said that if the RS-4 doesn't come in your size they'll make exceptions, and you can still run whatever you want if you don't want to be able to get a podium.

doesn't sound like a bad thing to be considering how much of a discount they're getting on a great tire that lasts a long time.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Turbo Dodge Powered E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Hankook Tires required for LD races in 2020

I only run one race a year with LD, but I still plan to switch to their RS4s when my current tires are done after Sonoma. The RS4s will be less than Dunlops or Falkens through their program.  I usually take the stickers off my car after each LD race.  I don't see the big deal, if it keeps LD making money to pay their people as well as save racers a few bucks a tire, I'm good for that.

Re: Hankook Tires required for LD races in 2020

If for some reason this means it will be easier for my team to get the RS-4s in the 205/50/R15 size we run...GREAT!  It been harder and harder for us to get them in time for several Lemons races in the past.

As for a "spec tire" I doubt you'll ever see that in Lemons.  I think it's funny that Yokohama is the official tire of Lemons, yet I know of no top teams that run Yokohama tires.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Hankook Tires required for LD races in 2020

VKZ24 wrote:

If for some reason this means it will be easier for my team to get the RS-4s in the 205/50/R15 size we run...GREAT!  It been harder and harder for us to get them in time for several Lemons races in the past.

As for a "spec tire" I doubt you'll ever see that in Lemons.  I think it's funny that Yokohama is the official tire of Lemons, yet I know of no top teams that run Yokohama tires.

Probably not, 195/50r15 and 225/45r15 are the 15" sizes in the program.

Re: Hankook Tires required for LD races in 2020

rb92673 wrote:

Probably not, 195/50r15 and 225/45r15 are the 15" sizes in the program.

Ack!  I meant to say 225/45/15....my bad.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Hankook Tires required for LD races in 2020

We are just finishing our first season of racing.   Lucky Dog has 5 races within 5 hours of Seattle (4 of them within 3 hours), so it's our major series, though we've tried to run both Lemons races this year, but the Lemons Gods seem to share the judges view of rotaries. 

Anyway, while we've been running Dunlop Direzzas, we've heard nothing but great things about the RS-4.  They're going to be a little cheaper, which is nice, and even though we've run 205/50/15's, the Hankook 195/50/15's area actually a slightly wider footprint.  Go figure.

We're not the rebels that you hardcore Lemons racers are, so we don't mind the stickers and sponsors.  We're just a 3 person race team, so total registration cost is only $900 ($300/driver, car included), where as Lemons is $1,380.  So it's not so much a cheaper cost of tires, but that it allows the series to keep overall registration a lot lower. 

Just my 2 cents.  We look forward to someday running a Lemons race where we actually drive as much as wrench.  Even having said that, Lemons definitely has a fun and mellow vibe that we've enjoyed.  But we've also really liked Lucky Dog.  Great people and organizers, rules really aren't too crazy from our standpoint.  Actually, we've found Lemons is MORE restrictive in most ways.

OH, regarding the role-call at driver meetings?  Yeah, sucks that some teams ruined it for everyone.  But in truth, they just randomly call out two teams, and all drivers need to show they're present and accounted for.  Everyone should be at the meeting, so shame on the people who got too lax about it. 

Anyway, it's a well run but different type of series.  Both are excellent in their own ways.  Ones an orange, the other is some weird star fruit.

Dave

Re: Hankook Tires required for LD races in 2020

wvumtnbkr wrote:

Just curious, but what do you mean difficult to get flag workers?

I am under the impression that the flag workers work for the facility being raced at, not for the series.

Like the operation of most wealthy pastimes, it’s more convoluted and needlessly complex.

For most tracks corner workers are “psudo employees” ad-hocked together by the track when a contract requires the track to provide corner services. This pool of workers consists mostly of local club racing members who volunteer as corner “workers” at club events, with the remainder being itinerant hobby-fessionals (race carnies) who contract up with pro events usually through the national and pro level club event system.

The key takeaway being they aren’t “employees” of the track, so the track has no REAL way of guaranteeing staffing because to do so would mean having the hassle and liability of real W-2 flavor employees, which most tracks probably couldn’t ever meet OSHA standards to have.

If a holiday, or even more often, a more prestigious or “politically” desirable club/pro event conflicts with a track ganged event, you end up short on potential flaggers. And the ones you do get may not be as well trained or experienced. Which since it’s a gigged 1099 means there isn’t much remedial, or directed training, since as a 1099 the worker must operate independently as an independent “professional” or the track/org risks the dreaded miss-classification of employees hammer of IRS and Department of Labor justice.

Which means you end up with stuff like flaggers flagging out the window of their car.......yea.........or space cases playing with their phones/wandering out of the flag station. And the good old fashioned “I don’t wanna git off mah stool so I’ll just hang/lay the flag here on the ledge/tire pile.” Or all too frequently, unstaffed flag stations.

On some tracks like the insipidly flat Gingerman it’s not a big deal since there are few blind corners or drastic chassis destabilizing elevation changes so the surprise level is low. Others like Laguna, or as was a problem in years past, the second quarter of Sonoma, you don’t get so much time to react, or room to run off.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

18

Re: Hankook Tires required for LD races in 2020

My first thought after reading through the press release is whether the price of those tires with shipping will be less than if I pick up at our local Tirerack distributor.  I'm guessing we can save ~$50-80 a set.

Re: Hankook Tires required for LD races in 2020

Tire Rack has our tires for $550/set ($503 + $47 tax) with free delivery.  We've been quoted $410 for the tires through the new program, though I'm not sure yet about delivery cost or tax.  I expect we'll be saving between $50-100/set (hopefully).

Re: Hankook Tires required for LD races in 2020

Shipping via UPS is probably $25 a tire, so unlikely they will be a lot cheaper.  What always happens is the price starts increases after everyone firmly entrenched, that is how business operates.
And make no mistake, this is 100% to make more income for LDRC and Hankook. 
Not level playing field, lowering costs, etc,
Totally turns me off from LDRC.     

Frankly, I wonder if there is room for yet another series, maybe one that isn't this style of endurance racing where pitstops make all the difference.  It was a clever idea back when cars were junk heaps.