Re: New Hampshire race: good videos? opinions? praise or criticism?

therood wrote:

General notes:

- You can only get towed so many times. That number is up to the Race Director and the safety crews, either of whom may have decided you were occupying too much of their time.

- You can only get told to "Fix your smoking car" so many times. If your first attempt or two doesn't work, then you're seen as a ticking time bomb for oiling down the track, which is dangerous and time-consuming.

- You only get told to fix a fuel leak once.

- You will very likely be asked to return to the judges/tech for show-and-tell on what you fixed, so spend the extra time to do it safely and correctly.

Good to know. Despite the much-oft affection the recaps show clueless teams who show up unprepared and figure it out, these are key points to remember.

March 2016 bought running 1988 VW Fox Wagon
March 2016 - Spring 2018 Car was on its side with no engine
2018 Thompson Organizers' Choice (25 laps)
2019 Thompson Judges' Choice (58 laps) NHMS Judges' Choice (74 laps)

Re: New Hampshire race: good videos? opinions? praise or criticism?

I have to agree here. The aggression was amazingly high this weekend, but that doesn't meant it's a guarantee that you'll be in an incident. We went all weekend long without a single black flag or contact (that I know about). It can be done, it just requires you to be aware of what is going on around you, drive predictably, and back off now and then when you see that aggressive guy coming. We were as high as 14th on Saturday, and in 17th sunday when we had our brake failure so we were not exactly going easy either. Don't take low percentage passes, and if you see someone who is, back off a few seconds. Let the traffic clusters sort themselves out before you trying to move through.

This year's field actually was smaller than years past. 113 cars total I think? We've had north of 120 before. I want to say we've had 130 at NH before, But I can't be certain. I didn't think the track was quite as crowded as it could have been.


Encouraging class C is hard. Class C takes it's toll on you after a while. Myself, I put in my years, I suffered, I paid lots of money for laps I never turned. Eventually you decide that isn't fun anymore, I actually want to drive. So you get a B or A class car. Speed creep was always going to happen, and it's very hard to combat. You can assign BS laps, but those cars are still out there driving the same speed.

Lemons first and foremost is a way for the average Joe to come racing. Junky cars was just the way to get it started. Junky cars are still encouraged, but the audience that is interested in the masochism will always be smaller than the audience that just wants to have some fun racing.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: New Hampshire race: good videos? opinions? praise or criticism?

I agree with Chris....
10 years and I have had contact twice.
Most of the time if you let the yahoos go you wont have any trouble.
Its when you fight for a corner and not "leave room" that the bad stuff happens.
Manny

29 (edited by chaase 2019-10-24 05:52 AM)

Re: New Hampshire race: good videos? opinions? praise or criticism?

Sonic wrote:

If anyone is "getting hit" a lot, I would encourage them to think about if they may be contributing to the problem.  Our team of 4 cars had very minor incidental contact only all weekend, but we have all been doing this a long time and are pretty good at avoiding bad situations, and have had lots of class C experience to be aware of who is around us and playing nice in the sandbox leaving room for everyone on a crowded track.

/agree

I did just over 2 hours on Saturday and I wasn't touched. It was close a couple of times but I was able to avoid the contact. One incident, I guess they just over cooked the entry into 3, and even though I gave them the inside. they shot completely across the front of the car going all the way to far left of the track. The second incident, I am guessing someone didn't see my to their right and started pushing me off the track.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C x2 and IOE winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

Re: New Hampshire race: good videos? opinions? praise or criticism?

Yep, I agree that having too much contact is an issue that someone may need to look internally as much as externally. 

From the track time I had...sadly our normally unbreakable Cressida had a case of diarrhea...I did notice the driving to be far more agro than races in the past.  But that's purely within control of each driver.  I just made sure not to stick my nose in with the yahoos who thought that rubbin' is racin'. 

Yes, Lemons is getting faster and faster and faster.  Don't know how to "fix" that, if it needs to be fixed.

Three Pedal Mafia

Jack of all trades (???) Lemons staff

Re: New Hampshire race: good videos? opinions? praise or criticism?

I noticed a lot of bad decisions coming out on track this race. Although I was not at NJMP this year, this was by far the most aggressive and stupid decision Race I have been involved in. I by far was not helping stop this problem, because what I noticed is that a lot of drivers were over driving their cars once I got past them. I am still learning every race and keep it as clean as I can, but I make mistakes and errors, but I know when to back off and continually am learning more reasons to back off.

The prime example of Watching someone overdrive their car was the Blue PT Cruiser that hit Feral's Miata late on Sunday. I came up on a pack of 4 cars real quick on the back straight, then battled up the hill and in the bowl passed the PT Cruiser. The driver was not impressed that he got passed real cleanly by a little green Miata. I made a mistake coming down back onto the Nascar straight by the turtle by taking an inside line that slowed me down a ton. This gave the PT Cruiser the opportunity on the front straight to try and beat me into the braking point. I am glad I took the high line, but the Pt Cruiser made a either really stupid decision or he had in fact lost his brakes... I was not in the car so I do not know, if there was video I would be happy to view.

Make your own opinion but here is the video - https://youtu.be/bjFOUq-zpuM

Start at 25:44 to watch the whole lap transpire. In hindsight I know I made a stupid decision by not slotting in with the Camaro. That decision may have been the whole cause of the accident. I feel responsible one way or another. At the end of the race I made sure to see that the Miata driver was ok and waited with him until his team got to the garage. then I talked with the PT Cruiser driver and asked what happened. He was worried about the Miata driver as well too.

This is just one incident of many that occurred and I would really appreciate people in our community to see this and learn from my mistakes.

a lethal overdose of brick wall, taken while under the influence of a Ferrari and a bottle of tequila.

32

Re: New Hampshire race: good videos? opinions? praise or criticism?

Although I have been so far free from incident or difficulty driving with others (can't say the same for all members of my team...), crowding, aggression, speed creep, and frequency of 'minor' incidents have helped me decide to take a hiatus and go back to HPDE for a little bit. Ill be back when my stress is back to normal and I organize a team of less angry people.



P.S. - I think the judges should have access to 'restrictor plates' to help mitigate speed creep. A couple tennis balls in your CAI should slow down the pointiest end of the field a bit.

Re: New Hampshire race: good videos? opinions? praise or criticism?

That blue PT cruiser is the car I ranted about blocking people earlier in the thread. They got caught running cheater tires at one point. I followed them a couple laps looking for a safe passing point and he was actively turning in early on a few corners where I tested sticking my nose in to pass. I finally decided I had enough and took the inside line into the bowl and he swerved right at me when I was next to him. I swore he was going to just hit me. Funny thing, half a lap later he was so far behind there was no chance he'd catch me again. Their fast lap at that point was 4 seconds slower than mine.

I know of another car they actually hit doing the same thing do.

This is my sunday morning stint, should start around the time I had caught him. 1:16:30 is the first time he swerves down on me at the bowl and I held back to see what he was doing. He does it again the next lap, though I can excuse that one for just driving the line. 1:19:30 is where I went for the inside line and he turns in waaaay early and almost hits me. Honestly that was probably a low percentage pass on my part, and I should have thought twice about it. I will next time especially around them.
https://youtu.be/tJNwRgEk-us?t=4474
yes I know I was shuffle steering, my shoulders were absolutely killing me.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: New Hampshire race: good videos? opinions? praise or criticism?

When you catch up with a slower car, having to slow down and wait to pass really kills  momentum, and to keep up fast lap times you can't do that, and want to just race past the slow cars instead.  And if you are known to be aggressive like that and people let you by as was suggested to be safe, it just encourages these 'racing to win' drivers to keep doing it.

I was smashed into at the Ridge because the other guy thought I'd just let him pass, and he didn't realize there was a driver change and I was NOT going to slow and let him pass.

35 (edited by williamggruff 2019-10-24 01:30 PM)

Re: New Hampshire race: good videos? opinions? praise or criticism?

I’m a team member of the BMW 2002 that rolled down the hill Saturday morning. We’d love to see video of the incident if anyone has it. Our driver says he was rear ended in the driver’s rear quarter panel—so hard that it bent the rear wheel and axle so that it toed out by 25°—by a green V8 Miata. The hit and resulting damage to the rear suspension knocked the car off track between turn 4 and the flag station above the bowl. The car skidded down the hill, caught a wheel and barrel rolled twice. The chassis is toast, main hoop in the cage bent, rear subframe, several wheels, CV axle, other suspension parts, windshield, and a few other parts were destroyed. Driver walked away from the incident, but was unsurprisingly quite sore for a few days.

According to what Lemons organizers told us, the Miata driver didn’t self report the incident, nor did he or his team visit the medical center to check on the driver of the car their teammate sent off track, causing a red flag incident. Lemons apparently revoked the offending driver’s driver privileges later in the day, and gave the team an hour penalty. That seems like a very gentle slap on the wrist for behavior that falls well outside the sprit of Lemons.

Re: New Hampshire race: good videos? opinions? praise or criticism?

This incredible Bob Ross inspired hood was auctioned off for charity Sunday night.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48955157306_3d0f2343a7_k.jpgB5C69718-D477-4644-8202-E8B74E469FED by Chris Arroyo, on Flickr

And some more photos :-)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48955346357_67e275fbcf_k.jpg9C180A4B-B955-4003-B3A8-98F1198F3D42 by Chris Arroyo, on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48955158461_3825eff3ed_k.jpg54454901-4B87-42C7-9AA3-9BB1D37E2E24 by Chris Arroyo, on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48955348442_0fc47bc2f7_k.jpg2E390284-A101-4F29-B805-B35A71766F50 by Chris Arroyo, on Flickr

Re: New Hampshire race: good videos? opinions? praise or criticism?

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48955160251_b50e5b73a3_k.jpgAEE4C9C1-0516-425D-B641-DE9F5D349799 by Chris Arroyo

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48955160631_2ee2863bcf_k.jpgC7FF4376-2D41-4039-A3E4-57E686E465BA by Chris Arroyo

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48955349122_80ddceea2b_k.jpg69CC7587-BB0E-4A46-91FE-3E52624E580C by Chris Arroyo

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48954609368_9c51fd6171_k.jpg6C2CFF14-02E7-4459-B1FB-CDA9CA8786B4 by Chris Arroyo

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48955349352_d386798584_k.jpg004BC954-EE29-45CE-9A35-129EA047E634 by Chris Arroyo

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48954609603_82daba99cd_k.jpg9D76456F-870D-4BB8-A858-AC0CFA78C3EE by Chris Arroyo

Re: New Hampshire race: good videos? opinions? praise or criticism?

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48954610068_ec20480db0_k.jpg2E9BA96B-2CF5-4549-9B6A-DE2B2CBFE0AD by Chris Arroyo, on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48955350222_0e1b463654_k.jpg1879EF51-1A58-41E3-BA36-46CB44634095 by Chris Arroyo, on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48954610408_de1d5f9561_k.jpgAE20CF06-515B-467F-835E-2F15C7109A58 by Chris Arroyo, on Flickr


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48954610768_f44142fae8_k.jpgFEBC4F51-CC2C-49B7-95A4-0B712AB498F0 by Chris Arroyo, on Flickr

Re: New Hampshire race: good videos? opinions? praise or criticism?

The Hooptober had a decent weekend with minimal incidents, zero flags. Had a couple minor rubs that as far as I can tell weren't our fault and fell into the "it's racing" category (both from cars that have posted in here ironically). That being said we too are certainly getting more 'serious' as the years go on so as always if anyone was put off by my or any of my driver's driving please let me know, I take it to heart!

There was plenty of out of place blocking, dives, or general obliviousness, but I'm starting to associate it with 'normal' as every race there's atleast a couple. I try to balance even dicing through slow traffic with the assumption the next car will cut me off.... I don't know how many times this weekend all the car language would tell me they knew I was there, only for me to back off a hair and the other.... "motorist" occupy the space I was just in. If my hood isn't at their mirror I assume their mirrors suck and back out and its saved me 100 times over

Last 10 minutes of Sunday when seemingly all hell broke loose, myself and the 495 BMW had a great head to head that made my weekend. We both knew the other one was racing the other and was as far as I could tell executed with minimal effect on others on the track. Even though it's in the other thread here it is again along with 59 coming over to check my mirror for me.

https://youtu.be/b2RwQ5g9dEc

Didn't get back by him but was well worth the cost of admission with thumbs up and hand shakes at the end

Re: New Hampshire race: good videos? opinions? praise or criticism?

This was my second Lemons.  I'm the rookie driver on an established team, and my co drivers make it look easy...like when you see the figure skaters at the Olympics rip a triple axel and think you want to do that but you can only skate like a hockey player.

I thought things quite aggro, but in my limited experience I've no yardstick...are they ALL this way ?   It seemed a lot rougher than Thompson.   All my other high performance driving experiences has been one car at at time or very carefully structured, notably Rallying, where you aren't wheel to wheel whilst at the edge of engine and traction, or alone on a track where you can obsess about "the line". 

--- the opposite problem of one poster...the rest of the team is very fast so other drivers just assume I'm them and act accordingly...yeesh, I need a Rookie Stripe smile 

There are definitely some gentlemen on the track and a few less-so.....

----missed two major pileups ahead of me on Saturday, and avoided a spin in turn 2 when a car dumped ATF.  Luck didn't hold Sunday when I contacted another car in turn 3 (that tire wall on the straight) and snapped a tie rod-hit it just right-POP, the aluminum part of the arm broke, car was otherwise still driveable but  with one loose wheel the day was over, and we were doing well too-we'd no flags all weekend, great position on the big board, and the car was running great.  The hit wasn't even especially hard, but just right/wrong to kill the car for the day.

Coming back on a flatbed is a walk of shame I'd prefer not to repeat....ever.

I had been rotating 45 degrees at the right side of the tire wall and taking an inside line mostly to avoid the mosh on the outside of the corner...the other driver took a wider but tighter line and I hadn't completed the rotation.  Video shows I was looking to the right, not left-should have seen him. (winter project-better mirrors)  The guy I contacted kept going, fortunately and finished.

I'm sorry to anyone caught up in that-including the driver who came by our garage saying we took him out of the race and said a few uncomplimentary/unlemony things, but he wasn't the guy I contacted-he did keep going immediately after and did finish.

Earlier, our car had been hit in the same corner, almost in the same way when another team member was driving.  A car spun, hit another car, which then contacted our car....we were able to keep going that time though, although there was a nice rip in the right front quarter.

Our next race is NJMP, and I'm going to make sure I do a high performance school before the Lemons race so I don't have to learn the track in traffic....

Re: New Hampshire race: good videos? opinions? praise or criticism?

As far as speed creep goes, yes overall there are more fast cars on the track. However, the fast cars are not getting faster (the data actually says the exact opposite). Fastest lap time of the race for the past 4 years:

2016: 01:20.771
2017: 01:21.379
2018: 01:21.782
2019: 01:22.484

Sorry For Party Racing! - 1985 Pontiac Firebird - Car #35

A race car exists only in two states: broken or in the process of becoming that way.

Re: New Hampshire race: good videos? opinions? praise or criticism?

williamggruff wrote:

I’m a team member of the BMW 2002 that rolled down the hill Saturday morning. We’d love to see video of the incident if anyone has it. Our driver says he was rear ended in the driver’s rear quarter panel—so hard that it bent the rear wheel and axle so that it toed out by 25°—by a green V8 Miata. The hit and resulting damage to the rear suspension knocked the car off track between turn 4 and the flag station above the bowl. The car skidded down the hill, caught a wheel and barrel rolled twice. The chassis is toast, main hoop in the cage bent, rear subframe, several wheels, CV axle, other suspension parts, windshield, and a few other parts were destroyed. Driver walked away from the incident, but was unsurprisingly quite sore for a few days.

According to what Lemons organizers told us, the Miata driver didn’t self report the incident, nor did he or his team visit the medical center to check on the driver of the car their teammate sent off track, causing a red flag incident. Lemons apparently revoked the offending driver’s driver privileges later in the day, and gave the team an hour penalty. That seems like a very gentle slap on the wrist for behavior that falls well outside the sprit of Lemons.

I wasn't there, but this is my 11th year in Lemons, and the above (bolded) is IMO unacceptable behavior, for a human being, not just a driver in a Lemons race.   If I caused a car to roll, whether it was jackassery, or just an accident beyond my control, I would want to apologize and know the driver was OK.  The offending driver's privileges should have been PERMANENTLY revoked IMO since he obviously didn't GAF about injuring someone.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: New Hampshire race: good videos? opinions? praise or criticism?

piper.gras wrote:

As far as speed creep goes, yes overall there are more fast cars on the track. However, the fast cars are not getting faster (the data actually says the exact opposite). Fastest lap time of the race for the past 4 years:

2016: 01:20.771
2017: 01:21.379
2018: 01:21.782
2019: 01:22.484

I was curious about other tracks, because NHMS pavement gets worse every year. Looks like it depends. CT is definitely getting faster. NJ, about even. Overall fast lap doesn't tell the whole story though, speed creep is defiantly real. C class has been getting faster and faster. When we were making a run at C class win, the winners were finishing in the 30's - 20's overall. Now the winners are often top 20. The field as a whole is speeding up.

Thompson:
2019 - 01:25.103
2018 - 01:26.166
2017 - 01:25.892
2016 - 01:27.049

NJMP (Thunderbolt)
2018 - 01:42.074
2017 - 01:45.101
2016 - 01:42.020

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: New Hampshire race: good videos? opinions? praise or criticism?

Fast lap is often not as clear an indicator as we might like.  For example when we had fast lap at Thompson with the civic, it was because we had a clear track and cool tires after a red flag and the 2 lead cars pushing each other, no other lap was within a second.  At NH this time, we had a 1:22.8 but on several cleaner traffic laps my telemetry was saying I was 2 seconds ahead of the 1:22.8 pace by the time I was at the treehouse and ran into traffic I couldn’t cleanly pass.   

It is cumbersome but maybe a mean of the fastest laps of the top 20 or 50 cars would probably be a bit more insightful.

Chris from 3 Pedal Mafia

Re: New Hampshire race: good videos? opinions? praise or criticism?

MZAVARIN wrote:
squidrope wrote:

We got hit twice on Saturday and once on Sunday.  We also got rear ended at Thompson.  I understand that accidents are part of racing, but I'm getting sick of spending money and time repairing damage that we didn't cause. To many yahoos out there that just don't give a *#%@.  I hope that Lemons keeps the hammer down like they did on Sunday. The car that took us out for 2 hours also hit our garage mates, and at least one other team I'd talked to last weekend.

#frustrated


Seems to me that "Lemons" is allowing "speed creep" by not discouraging "cheaty" fast modifications ( giving penalty laps) and allowing newer faster cars, (to increase attendance) and at the same time discouraging slower, older cars (that are now considered "getting in the way, too slow, and a hazard"), and at the same time not encouraging people to build/bring really old cars, shitty builds (by giving them a discount?-I think any team that brings a Class C car should get a voucher for a big discount at their next race!)
All this for the sake of covering their expenses, making more $$, covering their losses at tracks with low turn out, etc.....which I understand).  Its probably tough to discourage paying customers to want to come....

But if you are allowing the pace of the race to increase in speed, seems to me that you will need to cut down on the total number of cars that are allowed to race...so,  many slower cars vs fewer faster cars?...at a race....since too many fast cars at a track (with not the best drivers)==too many accidents).  So is "Lemons" actually to blame that there were too many accidents?  I certainly remember the Lightening race in NJ, and it seemed like there were way too many cars there...and incidents
But then you got to do the math and figure out your profits???
I certainly appreciate "Lemons" being strict about aggressive drivers, not tolerating significant contact....it was encouraging to see them park aggressive drivers on Sunday...they weren't kidding....!

Anyways, where is this all heading??!!

Speed creep is not new, especially here in the South Region where the ratio has been 80/20 (A&B/ C) for at least the last 5 or 6 years.  Stupid stuff still happens but I haven't seen it become unmanageable from the standpoint of a "faster" car perspective.  My biggest complaint has been intentional blocking by cars not even remotely in the hunt for the podium.  I often can't tell if these moves are malicious or simply due to lack of skill but I have encountered many a "B" Class car throwing what appear to be blocks on the straights.  Aggravating, but not unmanageable.

Quite simply, if a team doesn't have radio contact in the car most drivers have no idea who they are racing against and I tend to believe this leads to certain "heroes" trying to maintain their position by blocking any and all cars attempting to pass.

Maybe stress in the driver's meetings how and why that car which is all over your ass just magically appeared in your mirrors.....????    HINT:........ It ain't a shape shifting time traveler which just opened a portal on your rear bumper...... wink

whatever it was i didn't do it
dorifto dogs E30 - gone but not forgotten

Lee Ho Fook's Racing E36

Re: New Hampshire race: good videos? opinions? praise or criticism?

adamspn wrote:

The Hooptober had a decent weekend with minimal incidents, zero flags. Had a couple minor rubs that as far as I can tell weren't our fault and fell into the "it's racing" category (both from cars that have posted in here ironically). That being said we too are certainly getting more 'serious' as the years go on so as always if anyone was put off by my or any of my driver's driving please let me know, I take it to heart!

There was plenty of out of place blocking, dives, or general obliviousness, but I'm starting to associate it with 'normal' as every race there's atleast a couple. I try to balance even dicing through slow traffic with the assumption the next car will cut me off.... I don't know how many times this weekend all the car language would tell me they knew I was there, only for me to back off a hair and the other.... "motorist" occupy the space I was just in. If my hood isn't at their mirror I assume their mirrors suck and back out and its saved me 100 times over

Last 10 minutes of Sunday when seemingly all hell broke loose, myself and the 495 BMW had a great head to head that made my weekend. We both knew the other one was racing the other and was as far as I could tell executed with minimal effect on others on the track. Even though it's in the other thread here it is again along with 59 coming over to check my mirror for me.

https://youtu.be/b2RwQ5g9dEc

Didn't get back by him but was well worth the cost of admission with thumbs up and hand shakes at the end

This was my first race back after stepping away for 4 years. Battles like we had are the reason I love road course racing as much as I do. There was a ton of mutual respect for each other, and I had a blast dicing through traffic with you. It was great to watch from your perspective. I wish I had the camera rolling on Sunday, but I only have my Saturday stint. I personally matured as a driver since my last go at it years ago. Proud to say my 3 stints over the weekend were black flag and incident free, something I could never do before. lol

Re: New Hampshire race: good videos? opinions? praise or criticism?

Wow, this thread is really getting some attention!

This race finished our 3rd season with the truck. We started in C, and by the end of last season we were placed into B.  But honestly when we started we had no idea what we were getting into....We got onto the track at Thompson with a wood bed and 28" All Terrain tires!  We learned real quick what was going on, and what you need to do to be competitive. One of them being...just turn laps....you don't have to be the fastest, but you do need to be out there.   I think our truck  put out the 70th fastest lap of the race at 1:31 or so...nothing spectacular, far from it.

On our team we know for the most part who is in what class and who are competition is, and speaking for myself, and not the rest of my team, I may or may not just let someone by because they are faster, or in the lead, or just being outright aggressive.  But sometimes I do. If your car and driver is that good you'll get around me.  I'm not saying Im going to put someone into a wall.  But, I don't have a back seat with Miss Daisy in it going to Sunday brunch, so Im not letting everyone and their mother get the wave by.  It is racing! There is a very clear winner, and lots of losers! If you are that good to get first, then you've overcome slow cars, traffic, active blockers, aggressive drivers, etc...

With all of that being said, we will help anyone out!  We were 4 laps behind the Altimate Warriors, and they came in off the track, and stopped by chance in front of our garage with an issue, they ran over asking for a 10 mm wrench to fix something, and we gladly helped. We joked only if they gave up a lap of course.  That happened a few times during the race with other teams.  And we always lend our tools out, to help out a team.  I think that is one of the best parts of Lemons, almost everyone is willing to help the next team out.

1998 Ford Ranger 4.0 High Output
Organizers Choice Award Thompson Motor Speedway 2017
Class C Winners NHMS 2018
Hit'em With the Hein

Re: New Hampshire race: good videos? opinions? praise or criticism?

stano316 wrote:

Wow, this thread is really getting some attention!

This race finished our 3rd season with the truck. We started in C, and by the end of last season we were placed into B.  But honestly when we started we had no idea what we were getting into....We got onto the track at Thompson with a wood bed and 28" All Terrain tires!  We learned real quick what was going on, and what you need to do to be competitive. One of them being...just turn laps....you don't have to be the fastest, but you do need to be out there.   I think our truck  put out the 70th fastest lap of the race at 1:31 or so...nothing spectacular, far from it.

On our team we know for the most part who is in what class and who are competition is, and speaking for myself, and not the rest of my team, I may or may not just let someone by because they are faster, or in the lead, or just being outright aggressive.  But sometimes I do. If your car and driver is that good you'll get around me.  I'm not saying Im going to put someone into a wall.  But, I don't have a back seat with Miss Daisy in it going to Sunday brunch, so Im not letting everyone and their mother get the wave by.  It is racing! There is a very clear winner, and lots of losers! If you are that good to get first, then you've overcome slow cars, traffic, active blockers, aggressive drivers, etc...

With all of that being said, we will help anyone out!  We were 4 laps behind the Altimate Warriors, and they came in off the track, and stopped by chance in front of our garage with an issue, they ran over asking for a 10 mm wrench to fix something, and we gladly helped. We joked only if they gave up a lap of course.  That happened a few times during the race with other teams.  And we always lend our tools out, to help out a team.  I think that is one of the best parts of Lemons, almost everyone is willing to help the next team out.


By no means am I suggesting anyone not try to race against another competitor, but blocking is not racing particularly when it is repetitive and on the straights.  We do most of our passing in the turns truthfully.  My point is when you check your mirrors and a car is clearly much faster and pulling you on a straight ... throw a brother a point-by.....

whatever it was i didn't do it
dorifto dogs E30 - gone but not forgotten

Lee Ho Fook's Racing E36

Re: New Hampshire race: good videos? opinions? praise or criticism?

stano316 wrote:

I think that is one of the best parts of Lemons, almost everyone is willing to help the next team out.

Snipping just for wall of text reduction. This line is why we've stuck with Lemons so long. We were hopeless our first race and the kindness of others is what got us through. We try to be the same way, and that's why this past weekend irked me a bit. On track, sure, I never expect teams to just give up corners, but active blocking, especially of cars that are obviously faster, is a whole other thing and a bit extreme for Lemons. And some of the attitudes I've heard from the 147 mustang in regards to the 888 car are downright disgusting. This was not a normal weekend from my experience.

Off track we try to pay back all the help we've gotten along the way. Need a tool? a part? a beer at the end of the day? ask, we'll do what we can, because so many others have done the same. I think it was last year at NHMS we were really close to the bright ideas yellow truck in the standings, it would come down to their last pit stop who finished better. Then they came in with broken wheel studs and we were immediately over there seeing if they needed help (which apparently no, they fixed that issue amazingly fast). The community is what makes Lemons awesome and why I enjoy coming back so much.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

50 (edited by chaase 2019-10-25 02:29 PM)

Re: New Hampshire race: good videos? opinions? praise or criticism?

TheEngineer wrote:

I was curious about other tracks, because NHMS pavement gets worse every year. Looks like it depends. CT is definitely getting faster. NJ, about even. Overall fast lap doesn't tell the whole story though, speed creep is defiantly real. C class has been getting faster and faster. When we were making a run at C class win, the winners were finishing in the 30's - 20's overall. Now the winners are often top 20. The field as a whole is speeding up.

Thompson:
2019 - 01:25.103
2018 - 01:26.166
2017 - 01:25.892
2016 - 01:27.049

NJMP (Thunderbolt)
2018 - 01:42.074
2017 - 01:45.101
2016 - 01:42.020

It depends on the class C car. We won Class C at Thompson a couple of years ago in the Rover and it was the 3rd slowest car in the entire field. Class C cars are not really the basis for speed. Many Class C cars have been fast, but they have also been terribly unreliable. Being put in C says the car is going to be seriously explodey, incredibly slow or a combination of the two.

I would see what Class B looks like and everyone gets faster the longer they have been racing. Driving our first Saturn we got faster with no modifications to the car. You just get better at it.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C x2 and IOE winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner