Topic: Baofeng radios can't reach, looking for solution (MSR Houston)

Hello All,

So my team and I just participated in a Lemons race down at MSR Houston. Had an absolute blast! One thing that we noticed however was that our radio system did not have the range necessary to maintain communication with the driver except for when the car was passing the grandstand overlooking the track (where the other radio was).

What we have:
2 x Baofeng UV-82 (1 with long antenna (out of car), 1 with short antenna (in car), both battery powered and set to high power mode (5 watt)
Simplex config (FRS frequency)

What is everyone else using to get range throughout the whole course?

Re: Baofeng radios can't reach, looking for solution (MSR Houston)

FRS has power restrictions FYI. Used to be 1/2watt, but I think it's 2 now. Depending on how the radio is setup it may not truly be in high power mode.

The in car radio really wants the better antenna. Ideally you want an external antenna. Putting the little rubber antenna inside the car can really cut off it's range. However realize that external antennas come with their own rules, depending on the band you're in, they might not be strictly legal or may require a license.

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Re: Baofeng radios can't reach, looking for solution (MSR Houston)

Thanks for getting back to me so quick. Was not aware of the power limit so Ill look into getting a license (just fee, no test correct?) Im willing to try the external antenna, just wasn't sure how much of a difference that would make.

Is there an alternative radio brand I should consider (The baofengs were cheap but may not cut it). I'm willing to spend the money to have a system that is reliable beyond turn 2  smile

Re: Baofeng radios can't reach, looking for solution (MSR Houston)

Radios are over rated. Why do you need 100% coverage? 

A lot of winning teams don’t bother with fans radio setups. We just use the radio to signal when we are coming in the pits by pressing the chime button 2-3 laps before we come in.

Re: Baofeng radios can't reach, looking for solution (MSR Houston)

From my limited knowledge base:

Basics of radio waves -
Trapped inside metal can = poor distance travel/broadcast
Set free on top of a metal ground plane (roof) = good distance travel/broadcast
Short antenna = poor reception
Long antenna = better reception

Having an antenna tuned for your chosen frequencies makes a big difference, too.

Anyone, feel free to correct me if I am mistaken.

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Re: Baofeng radios can't reach, looking for solution (MSR Houston)

DelinquentRacer wrote:

From my limited knowledge base:

Basics of radio waves -
Trapped inside metal can = poor distance travel/broadcast
Set free on top of a metal ground plane (roof) = good distance travel/broadcast
Short antenna = poor reception
Long antenna = better reception

Having an antenna tuned for your chosen frequencies makes a big difference, too.

Anyone, feel free to correct me if I am mistaken.

Mostly correct. Long vs short antenna, yes, in basic terms this is correct, but tuning the antenna to the bands you want is better.


GRMS license is just a fee to the FCC. Beyond that, it gets more complicated (I am not the expert there)


As for the why have radios debate, it's been hashed out many times. Different teams get different amounts of benefit from radios. Some run just fine without them, some need them. No right or wrong, do what makes things work for your team.

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Re: Baofeng radios can't reach, looking for solution (MSR Houston)

Get better antennas.  Mount a good antenna on the roof and get better antennas for your handheld.  The Baofengs are illegal to use on FRS, GMRS, etc. and are only legal to use on amateur radio 70cm and 2m frequencies with each user having a license.  That said I bet 99% of the millions of Baofengs sold are used on the FRS/GMRS.

Try a Nagoya NA-771 for the handhelds, and a bigger one like a Diamond 770 for the car.  You are still not going to have 100% coverage.  To get better range you need to have better line of site.  Try transmitting on a hill if there is such a thing in that part of TX.

Team whatever_racecar #745 Volvo wagon

8 (edited by RSB 2019-11-12 03:10 PM)

Re: Baofeng radios can't reach, looking for solution (MSR Houston)

Bigger isn't better. Specific antennas work best when used at specific frequencies. The Beofengs are 'dual band' radios, they work in the 136-174MHz (VHF) and 400-520MHz (UHF) bands which is a huge range. The stock antenna is therefore a compromise because it can't be most efficient over that entire frequency range. Get an antenna that will be most efficient (i.e., highest gain) at the frequency that you are going to be using. Antennas are most efficient when their lengths (or their electrical length if they include a loading coil) are certain fractions of the wavelength (1/4, 1/2 and 5/8 are most common).

Agree that an external antenna for the car will greatly improve your range. The metal car acts as a Faraday cage and will attenuate both transmit and receive signals and limit range. There are lots of choices for external antennas. If you are using UHF (GMRS) then here are some examples: https://www.theantennafarm.com/catalog/ … ennas-214/ You can get magnetic mount models or permanent bolt-ins that require drilling a hole in the roof of the car.

Also, make sure that both antennas are oriented the same way. That is, if the car radio antenna is vertical, make sure the antenna on the radio in the pits is oriented vertically. Doesn't seem like much, but mixed polarization can kill your reception.

We Audi Be Faster
'85 Audi Coupe G(in &) T(onic)

9 (edited by Troy 2019-11-13 08:47 AM)

Re: Baofeng radios can't reach, looking for solution (MSR Houston)

A roof mount antenna for your desired frequencies will give you the coverage you're looking for.

We are transitioning from Motorola business radios to Baofengs and currently run a mix of them in the Tetanus heard. MSR is our "home" track and radios are pretty easy there. The track is more or less a horseshoe around the paddock so your never very far away.

As others have mentioned, Baofengs have a huge frequency range so a one-size-fits-all-solution will be a compromise. We use UHF frequencies with hole mount roof antennas. Even the cheap mag mount antennas for Baofengs help get the antenna up and out of the car.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Baofeng radios can't reach, looking for solution (MSR Houston)

Troy wrote:

A roof mount antenna for your desired frequencies will give you the coverage you're looking for.

We are transitioning from Motorola business radios to Baofengs and currently run a mix of them in the Tetanus heard. MSR is our "home" track and radios are pretty easy there. The track is more or less a horseshoe around the paddock so your never very far away.

As others have mentioned, Baofengs have a huge frequency range so a one-size-fits-all-solution will be a compromise. We use UHF frequencies with hole mount roof antennas. Even the cheap mag mount antennas for Baofengs help get the antenna up and out of the car.

Hey Troy,

Do y'all run gmrs or amateur radio frequencies?

Trying to sort out how we ought to be doing this without running afoul of anyone.

Thanks,
Walton

Re: Baofeng radios can't reach, looking for solution (MSR Houston)

wallyworld wrote:

Hey Troy,

Do y'all run gmrs or amateur radio frequencies?

Trying to sort out how we ought to be doing this without running afoul of anyone.

Thanks,
Walton

I'm not Troy, but I'll offer my 2 cents.

If you don't have an amateur radio license, I would stay off the amateur bands.  You might accidentally step on a local repeater or reserved frequency.  Plenty of amateur radio dweebs that might think it is fun to triangulate your signal and track you down.  They can't really do anything though other than report you to the FCC if they find you, or transmit over you.

FRS bands 1-7 and 15-22 would be 'safer' to use.  I don't think anybody monitors those and many teams use them. If you keep under 5W, there really is no way for anyone to know if you are using licensed equipment or not unless they physically look at your equipment.

Team whatever_racecar #745 Volvo wagon

Re: Baofeng radios can't reach, looking for solution (MSR Houston)

rb92673 wrote:

I'm not Troy, but I'll offer my 2 cents.

If you don't have an amateur radio license, I would stay off the amateur bands.  You might accidentally step on a local repeater or reserved frequency.  Plenty of amateur radio dweebs that might think it is fun to triangulate your signal and track you down.  They can't really do anything though other than report you to the FCC if they find you, or transmit over you.

FRS bands 1-7 and 15-22 would be 'safer' to use.  I don't think anybody monitors those and many teams use them. If you keep under 5W, there really is no way for anyone to know if you are using licensed equipment or not unless they physically look at your equipment.

Good advice. Do the FRS bands get really congested? At MSR we had 100 teams. Seems like you might spend a bunch of time hopping around to try to find a clear frequency.

Re: Baofeng radios can't reach, looking for solution (MSR Houston)

wallyworld wrote:
rb92673 wrote:

I'm not Troy, but I'll offer my 2 cents.

If you don't have an amateur radio license, I would stay off the amateur bands.  You might accidentally step on a local repeater or reserved frequency.  Plenty of amateur radio dweebs that might think it is fun to triangulate your signal and track you down.  They can't really do anything though other than report you to the FCC if they find you, or transmit over you.

FRS bands 1-7 and 15-22 would be 'safer' to use.  I don't think anybody monitors those and many teams use them. If you keep under 5W, there really is no way for anyone to know if you are using licensed equipment or not unless they physically look at your equipment.

Good advice. Do the FRS bands get really congested? At MSR we had 100 teams. Seems like you might spend a bunch of time hopping around to try to find a clear frequency.

Yes, they probably do.  Some teams seem to think constantly chatting with the driver is important, we just use it for emergencies. You can use privacy tones so you don't hear the other teams, but you can't transmit if some else is transmitting.  FRS and GMRS overlap a bunch of frequencies.  MURS is another public range.

https://www.radioreference.com/ is a good website to see what bands may be in use in an area outside of public ranges and amateur bands.

Getting an amateur license is not very hard, just read a book and take a test at your local club.  You can also register for GMRS, that just takes money.

Team whatever_racecar #745 Volvo wagon

Re: Baofeng radios can't reach, looking for solution (MSR Houston)

We use UHF channels that are close to GMRS. We paid for the programming and do not know why those channels were selected and I ain't sharing.

If you are concerned about your frequencies, monitor the channel with no privacy codes to see if it's open.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

15 (edited by Guildenstern 2019-11-24 03:52 PM)

Re: Baofeng radios can't reach, looking for solution (MSR Houston)

Troy wrote:

We use UHF channels that are close to GMRS. We paid for the programming and do not know why those channels were selected and I ain't sharing.

If you are concerned about your frequencies, monitor the channel with no privacy codes to see if it's open.

Dots n stars n 70cm.

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