The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Tech → oil level sensor
I need to add an oil level sensor to our car for the 24 hr race, otherwise we'd lose too much time doing oil check stops. The damn car eats a quart every 3 hours, and I only have 3+1 to begin with.
Educate me: what's a common car with an easy-to-remove oil pressure sensor that screws into a nut in an oil pan, works well, and (ideally) closes the circuit under low oil conditions?
I know E46 6 cyl has one that bolts to the bottom of the oil pan. Seems like a leakproof way to do it would be to cut the mount off the pan and weld it into yours.
1992 Ford Explorer (4.0L V6, so also Ranger+who knows what else) has an oil level sensor, mounted to the side of the pan.
Unless the pan was baffled, wouldn't the light come on every time you took a corner?
Also, wouldn't this only be an issue on tracks with hot pits -- during paddock fuel stops/driver changes a team member could check the oil while the others were strapping the next driver in?
Just a couple of thoughts. We have a car that we need to check the oil every stop too -- uses a quart every 1.5-2 hours.
Also, wouldn't this only be an issue on tracks with hot pits
The race in question is at CMP where we have hot pits.
Doesn't the oil pressure idiot light tell you when you are low on oil? When it starts blinking in corners, we add oil.
GM 12603782
Many, many GM cars have this sensor.
Check Rockauto.com and you can see what cars came with this sensor.
GM 12603782
Many, many GM cars have this sensor.
Check Rockauto.com and you can see what cars came with this sensor.
I think all our Series II 3800's have it but it is ALWAYS non-functional. Not sure if it is a comment on GM oil level senders or the condition of the vehicles we get.
So...could you not just fix it's oil loss/useage?
Doesn't the oil pressure idiot light tell you when you are low on oil? When it starts blinking in corners, we add oil.
Indirectly, and also very late. By the time you see low oil pressure it means your pump is sucking air. Meaning you have already lost oil volume for cooling and oil stability. And any low oil pressure indications while the engine is spinning at much above idle is risking eventual bering failure.
You ideally want to know when you’re a quart low, not only a quart left.
So...could you not just fix it's oil loss/useage?
Most manufacturers consider a Quart every Thousand miles to be acceptable, so barring a full engine teardown and rebuild. In a race where a two day session is equivalent to over 10,000 miles of “regular” duty, you’re just going to consume oil.
accusump and carry extra oil.
Or do like the practical Canadians up at DeHavilland did and put a filler in the cabin:
(see the yellow cap?)
Not technically against tech... maybe.
Not technically against tech... maybe.
3.F.6 Fuel, Oil, and Coolant in the Cockpit. Any fuel, oil, or coolant reservoirs or lines that are exposed to, or pass through, the driving compartment must be encased by heavy-duty conduit, durable steel or aluminum pipe, or strong metal plate.
I'm guessing that "encased" doesn't encompass "except, of course, for a conveniently located filler cap."
We don't currently have a big oil consumption problem, but we did add 2 quarts of capacity when we added the oil cooler and remote filter.
Adding capacity seems like a plausible solution.
Maverick74 wrote:So...could you not just fix it's oil loss/useage?
Most manufacturers consider a Quart every Thousand miles to be acceptable, so barring a full engine teardown and rebuild. In a race where a two day session is equivalent to over 10,000 miles of “regular” duty, you’re just going to consume oil.
This seems like a gross over generalization... We've never had a car that drank oil so bad that we were worried during a race. The saab uses literally none. I can't think of a single race we had to add oil. The daytona, even on it's worst engines, was maybe add half a quart. The better engines used none.
Guildenstern wrote:Maverick74 wrote:So...could you not just fix it's oil loss/useage?
Most manufacturers consider a Quart every Thousand miles to be acceptable, so barring a full engine teardown and rebuild. In a race where a two day session is equivalent to over 10,000 miles of “regular” duty, you’re just going to consume oil.
This seems like a gross over generalization... We've never had a car that drank oil so bad that we were worried during a race. The saab uses literally none. I can't think of a single race we had to add oil. The daytona, even on it's worst engines, was maybe add half a quart. The better engines used none.
We had an '08 MINI Clubman that drank 1 qt of oil every 2 tanks of fuel and it had under 80K miles on it. Didn't leak a drop. Didn't blow visible smoke. didn't change at all after doing some valve cover pcv valve magic. Checked with the dealer mechanics: "Oh, that's normal for the N12 engine"
rb92673 wrote:Doesn't the oil pressure idiot light tell you when you are low on oil? When it starts blinking in corners, we add oil.
Indirectly, and also very late. By the time you see low oil pressure it means your pump is sucking air. Meaning you have already lost oil volume for cooling and oil stability. And any low oil pressure indications while the engine is spinning at much above idle is risking eventual bering failure.
You ideally want to know when you’re a quart low, not only a quart left.
6 races with this strategy and it hasn't blown up, but it is a redblock. Seems to be happening more since I added a remote oil filter, so we started adding an extra quart. Maybe I should get a pressure gauge, but I only have one driver who has ever looked at a gauge (cheseroo).
Maybe I should prep my spare engine.
If you know how much it consumes, then why the need to check the dip stick?
Perhaps you need a 'full' light instead, so just top it off every pit until the full light goes on.
it only has to work with engine off and car not moving, so easier and more reliable than a car running and driving trying to determine the oil level, which btw is probably possible if it has a 'level' tube in the pan that is not sensitive to sloshing, like how they do fuel level in gas tanks.
Maybe I should get a pressure gauge, but I only have one driver who has ever looked at a gauge (cheseroo).
I can't imagine racing a car without an oil pressure gauge. If your drivers won't watch the gauge, just get a big light instead. We actually have both.
You can get a oil pressure switch with a high enough pressure rating to be useful, but not annoying to turn on the light all the time. We have a 30 PSI switch in our Honda, but to be honest, if you only have 30 PSI in a Honda, it's going boom pretty soon.
rb92673 wrote:Maybe I should get a pressure gauge, but I only have one driver who has ever looked at a gauge (cheseroo).
I can't imagine racing a car without an oil pressure gauge. If your drivers won't watch the gauge, just get a big light instead. We actually have both.
You can get a oil pressure switch with a high enough pressure rating to be useful, but not annoying to turn on the light all the time. We have a 30 PSI switch in our Honda, but to be honest, if you only have 30 PSI in a Honda, it's going boom pretty soon.
I have a really bright oil pressure idiot light, my drivers do notice that.
What I really think I should do is get a combo idiot light and pressure gauge sensor and connect it to microsquirt and log it.
Sorry for the thread hijack.
Whenever we have a oil burner someone is assigned to monitor how much it uses in what timeframe, when we pit for fuel a predetermined amount of oil is added at certain intervals through a fill hole cut in hood.
After each race we see if there is too much or little oil to adjust.
Oh,we always start one qt over factory fill, even with non burner engines to make up for lack of baffled pan. A blinking oil light in the turns has proven to increase rod bearing wear.
(nissan VG30DE)
Most manufacturers consider a Quart every Thousand miles to be acceptable...
8th gen Honda engineer? Is that you?
Guildenstern wrote:Most manufacturers consider a Quart every Thousand miles to be acceptable...
8th gen Honda engineer? Is that you?
Both my 02 golf and my 02 outback were quoted as 1Qt/1000mi being acceptable. My guess is any more would effect emissions, and any less would be luck/“over engineering”
No kidding? I know Honda stated there were issues with the piston rings in these engines leading to consumption, but I've never burned oil like this car does, especially as a DD. At the same time though, it's about 1qt/1,000 miles, which is basically an oil change within every oil change duration, so it's not excessive compared to what you're saying. I check it often though, so I don't know how people who don't are still driving these cars.
No issues in the 6th gen Accord we raced years ago, or with the L-series motors in the Datsun. We still run a pressure gauge and an idiot light though, on top of a remote filter and oil cooler for added capacity. Never, ever burned a noticeable amount of oil though.
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