1 (edited by AJay 2020-02-23 06:44 PM)

Topic: Accords anyone?

Hey gang!
Is anyone racing an Accord, specifically the 6th Generation?

Me and my brother were looking for a Civic, but may go Accord. It’s a super cheaty, hush-hush Skunkworks type project but I can leave a few clues...

2001 I4 5-speed Coupe
16 year old.
Mexico.
Ran out of oil.
Every panel except the roof is bent. (Actually, the roof is bent to).

If we spend $369 on an F23 rebuild kit and do the machine work ourselves, we will have $369 invested. (Our Team has an accomplished skill set.. I’m the weak link.)

Is anyone racing an Accord? Is this a suitable Lemons platform for a bunch of kids in their 50’s that have never road raced (a car)?

We’re looking at the 2021-2022 time frame, so we have a few more months before we get seriously started.

Comments welcomed and encouraged!

AJ

2 (edited by Mkotzias 2020-02-24 08:06 AM)

Re: Accords anyone?

Welcome to the insanity.
Plenty of Accords have "Raced" as I remember.
Love your cheaty car choice......You should be fine.
Manny

Re: Accords anyone?

You know, I wonder that myself.  You'd think Lemons would be positively littered with 6th/7th gen Accords and 7th/8th generation Civics, but, you very rarely see them.  No idea what the problem is, I'd think they would be a better bet than the older Hondas people seem to prefer.  You can certainly find them within budget.  Personally, I have a thing for 6th gen Accords - as street cars, I think they're some of the best Honda made.  Competitively, the power should be decent (assuming you're staying in the neighborhood of stock power levels), especially with a manual, and the handling will also be decent, with tons of aftermarket support. 

Are you east coast or west coast?  West coast could be different, but east coast doesn't seem to have too many (as if I've been around long enough to keep tabs).  Surely someone has done one, and can offer a little advice about common failure points.  Prepare yourself for a lot of opinions on Honda headgaskets...

Semi-Sentient Centenarians
1996 Buick Century - we upgraded our crappy GM sedan with parts from a crappy GM minivan.
"It's got a van motor, a 220 cubic inch plant, it's got van tires, van suspension, van shocks. It's a model with the catalytic converters ripped out so
     it'll run good on regular gas. What do you say, is it a racecar or what?" - Blues Brothers, Probably

Re: Accords anyone?

Well, the open deck Honda engines in Lemons are primarily known for being about the most head gasket blowey engine in the series so head gasket should be a concern for anybody considering racing one.  A search on this forum will shed light on how to prevent the problem.  As to why there isn't more, it might be because of a) Head gaskets, b) guessing they don't fit well in any particular class so they don't win or c) eating warm oatmeal is more exciting than racing a Honda.  Who knows?  There have been many, many Hondas over the years but I don't really pay attention to them.  The "Tape-R" Honda in Texas and the Accord-ian are about the only two that stand out to me.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

Re: Accords anyone?

Lemons Accords have mostly been fourth- and fifth-generation Accords. The F-Series engine has been so-so in Lemons, probably a little less reliable than the B- and D-Series.

The Fourth-Gen Accords with the A20—namely the Blue Shells and the Frankenstein Motorworks cars—have been really durable and finished well based on consistent running with loooooooong fuel runs. They are not fast.

One Fifth-Gen Accord racked up a couple overall wins, though I couldn't tell you what engine they run/ran. I haven't seen them for a couple years. Others running this generation have been a mixed bag.

Sixth-Gen Accords are fairly new to Lemons and the couple I've seen lately have been automatics. They're sure not fast, but at least one of them has been durable.

I think of the Accord as probably a good My First Lemons Car™: Plentiful parts, front-wheel drive (tougher to spin unless you're really trying), not so much power to be problematic, relatively easy on tires/brakes/fuel. Of course, those things are even more true of a Civic, so I think that's why people have opted instead to run the smaller car.

YMMV, but if you've already got one, that makes the decision easier.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

Re: Accords anyone?

Hondas do well and win from time to time. Didn't count but it seems to me that there were as many Hondas at Barber and Atlanta as there were BMWs. What these guys are calling a head gasket problem is really an overheating problem primarily in the D series and B series engines. Add ARP head studs and an oil cooler to any Honda 4 cylinder before going racing and you will never see the issue.

The Accord chassis you've selected is a good one but an F23 that has been run out of oil would not be my choice. Picking Honda because parts are cheap and readily available is good but the F23 wasn't well liked in the U.S. so there isn't a lot of third party parts support. Consider doing a swap to an H or K.

7 (edited by AJay 2020-02-25 10:40 AM)

Re: Accords anyone?

Mkotzias wrote:

Welcome to the insanity.
Plenty of Accords have "Raced" as I remember.
Love your cheaty car choice......You should be fine.
Manny

Thanks for the reply MK!

AJ

Re: Accords anyone?

mthew_m wrote:

You know, I wonder that myself.  You'd think Lemons would be positively littered with 6th/7th gen Accords and 7th/8th generation Civics, but, you very rarely see them.  No idea what the problem is, I'd think they would be a better bet than the older Hondas people seem to prefer.  You can certainly find them within budget.  Personally, I have a thing for 6th gen Accords - as street cars, I think they're some of the best Honda made.  Competitively, the power should be decent (assuming you're staying in the neighborhood of stock power levels), especially with a manual, and the handling will also be decent, with tons of aftermarket support. 

Are you east coast or west coast?  West coast could be different, but east coast doesn't seem to have too many (as if I've been around long enough to keep tabs).  Surely someone has done one, and can offer a little advice about common failure points.  Prepare yourself for a lot of opinions on Honda headgaskets...

I'm East Coast (Fort Bragg, North Carolina) but the car building will be done in the Mid-west, Jefferson City Missouri.  The car is an F23 4 cylinder with a five speed.  One motor has 300k and a hint of a knock, the other was ran out of oil.  Zero invested in it and we are hoping to have enough crank left that we can make a motor with just a set of pistons, bearings and some machine work.  If this pans out, we'll meet the intent of $500.  If not, we can sell what we got and continue shopping.

Thanks for the reply!

Re: Accords anyone?

cheseroo wrote:

Well, the open deck Honda engines in Lemons are primarily known for being about the most head gasket blowey engine in the series so head gasket should be a concern for anybody considering racing one.  A search on this forum will shed light on how to prevent the problem.  As to why there isn't more, it might be because of a) Head gaskets, b) guessing they don't fit well in any particular class so they don't win or c) eating warm oatmeal is more exciting than racing a Honda.  Who knows?  There have been many, many Hondas over the years but I don't really pay attention to them.  The "Tape-R" Honda in Texas and the Accord-ian are about the only two that stand out to me.

My Brother is a Honda Master tech, I'm hoping he knows how to keep a head gasket in it. Warm oatmeal is certainly more interesting than an Accord LOL.

Re: Accords anyone?

moparfan wrote:

Hondas do well and win from time to time. Didn't count but it seems to me that there were as many Hondas at Barber and Atlanta as there were BMWs. What these guys are calling a head gasket problem is really an overheating problem primarily in the D series and B series engines. Add ARP head studs and an oil cooler to any Honda 4 cylinder before going racing and you will never see the issue.

The Accord chassis you've selected is a good one but an F23 that has been run out of oil would not be my choice. Picking Honda because parts are cheap and readily available is good but the F23 wasn't well liked in the U.S. so there isn't a lot of third party parts support. Consider doing a swap to an H or K.

Thanks!
Yeah, we noticed already that F series parts are limited to stock replacement.  We do have two motors and one is running at present.  If they are both junk we will certainly look to one of the other variants.  We do have a manual transmission, fortunately and are investigating cooling options.  Lots of stuff laying around.

Re: Accords anyone?

When you're thinking about themes, just know Accordion has already been done.

https://youtu.be/_QHgUTMdlvc?t=19

Re: Accords anyone?

jiggermyster wrote:

When you're thinking about themes, just know Accordion has already been done.

https://youtu.be/_QHgUTMdlvc?t=19

'


LOL... we'll be a little more subtle than that JM.

AJ

Re: Accords anyone?

AJay wrote:
jiggermyster wrote:

When you're thinking about themes, just know Accordion has already been done.

https://youtu.be/_QHgUTMdlvc?t=19

'


LOL... we'll be a little more subtle than that JM.

AJ

I am not sure we understand that word.

14 (edited by AJay 2020-02-26 06:29 AM)

Re: Accords anyone?

OnkelUdo wrote:
AJay wrote:
jiggermyster wrote:

When you're thinking about themes, just know Accordion has already been done.

https://youtu.be/_QHgUTMdlvc?t=19

'


LOL... we'll be a little more subtle than that JM.

AJ

I am not sure we understand that word.


LOL....  I meant, “Our paint isn’t that nice”.

Re: Accords anyone?

mthew_m wrote:

You know, I wonder that myself.  You'd think Lemons would be positively littered with 6th/7th gen Accords and 7th/8th generation Civics, but, you very rarely see them. ...

Doing some research on rebuild kits, I'm wondering if it's the lack of "cheaty" parts for the F23?  There is a fix available for the head gaskets, but the car still starts out at 3000lbs.  Not ideal, but one of the two wives that will be driving has never raced anything at all before and a boring FWD car is probably best for her... and the rest of us.

We've got the car running (with a bad motor) and licensed, so at least we know it ran before we started.  Time is still on our side right now!

AJ

Re: Accords anyone?

Take the time to go to the upcoming CMP race. Find the Old Guys Racing team out of Beaufort, they will be running a gold Ranchero. They ran an Accord with F motors for a lot of years. They can walk you through how to balance that chassis and what you can reasonably do to the F motor to help. Another good resource for you, also at the CMP race, is the team running a blue Del Sol, ask for Craig.

Re: Accords anyone?

moparfan wrote:

Take the time to go to the upcoming CMP race. Find the Old Guys Racing team out of Beaufort, they will be running a gold Ranchero. They ran an Accord with F motors for a lot of years. They can walk you through how to balance that chassis and what you can reasonably do to the F motor to help. Another good resource for you, also at the CMP race, is the team running a blue Del Sol, ask for Craig.

Thanks Mopar,

I'm still Active Duty Army for another year and traveling is a bit restricted right now.  Me and Rebecca will be at NOLA next month and CMP for the fall race. I suspect my brother and his lovely wife will be at all the mid-west races.

We're tracking the F-motor isn't the preferred item.  Initially we just want to learn how to keep it alive and get the rest of the car balanced out.  We are coming from a mostly motorcycle and short-track background, so power is kind of an afterthought for us.

Guys, thanks again for the welcomes and responses.

AJ