• Registered: 2020-02-28
  • Posts: 2

Topic: Insurance/Liability

Hey everyone. New to Lemons, finally got a team to commit to putting a car together and cannot be more excited about it! We purchased a 2001 Mazda B-2500 (Ford Ranger) and our plan for the theme is the "B-25 Bomber", painted like an old WWII war bird. We have a good mix of skill sets on the team so it looks like we'll be able to handle all the modification/fabrication on our own.

The only lingering question comes down to liability. We've purchased the truck, but we haven't registered it yet because we're not sure about the liability side of things when it comes to who owns the vehicle. I know the waiver we sign releases the track and Lemons from liability but does it release the owner of the car as well? We're all life-long friends and relatives on the team but we're worried if someone get's hurt their insurance company will try to find someone to offset any expenses of medical bills etc.

Is this something we should be worried about or are we protected under the waiver we sign for Lemons?

Thanks in advance for any feedback. This is something we've dreamed about doing for many years now and cannot wait to make it happen!!

  • From: SF Bay Area
  • Registered: 2012-01-06
  • Posts: 721

Re: Insurance/Liability

For questions like this SEARCH is your friend.
https://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/view … p?id=37986
I turned this up for you.

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3 Reply by Guildenstern (edited by Guildenstern 2020-02-28 06:03 PM)

  • From: Cleveland, OH
  • Registered: 2011-09-03
  • Posts: 2,227

Re: Insurance/Liability

Most Insurance companies consider stuff on track to be null and void. If you somehow flew OFF the track, into the road and hit a normal car on the street, things would get complicated. Probably falling on track or event liability.

On the track, Car insurance doesn't exist. Life Insurance would probably ignore a claim unless you were paying a fortune for insurance that specifically allows motorsports. And event insurance is for them not you.

If you drive the car on the street, definitely decide who "owns" it, even if it's an LLC. And definitely get state required Liability.

On the track, you did sign wavers that said you knew you shouldn't be doing this if you value your health and safety, so really those could be pulled if someone's life insurance wanted to subrogate. And most likely the insurance would try to subrogate Lemons or the track first because they presumably have more money (probably not).

Your only real liability would be actual Criminal Negligence, so.....don't do that.

And again just to be clear.

THERE IS NO INSURANCE ON THE TRACK

They get hurt, it's between them and their Health Insurer. There's no collision or bodily injury. The track is technically and literally not "the road".(except some weird BS in New Jersey where you can get a reckless driving ticket because Jersey)

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  • Registered: 2020-02-28
  • Posts: 2

Re: Insurance/Liability

Good to hear! Thanks for the feedback Guildenstern!

  • From: Tustin, CA
  • Registered: 2010-12-30
  • Posts: 3,275

Re: Insurance/Liability

Hagerty is offering race car insurance.  https://www.hagerty.com/insurance/motorsports-insurance
Have a pretty good idea they didnt have us in mind though...

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  • From: Cleveland, OH
  • Registered: 2011-09-03
  • Posts: 2,227

Re: Insurance/Liability

You'll note those are all off track and HPDE/Non Competitive coverage. The Paddock and trailer insurance is a bit interesting because I bust a car I go make another car, I have all the tools I used to make the car stolen in a hotel parking lot, I can't make another car for a LOOONG time.

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88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

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  • From: South Jersey
  • Registered: 2013-12-01
  • Posts: 588

Re: Insurance/Liability

Guildenstern wrote:

(except some weird BS in New Jersey where you can get a reckless driving ticket because Jersey)

What is this?  Jersey resident here but I've never heard of this.  Reckless driving while on track?

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  • gtopat
  • gtopat
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  • From: Langhorne, PA
  • Registered: 2010-06-25
  • Posts: 465

Re: Insurance/Liability

meyers0150 wrote:

What is this?  Jersey resident here but I've never heard of this.  Reckless driving while on track?

I forget the finer details, but the first year we ran at NJMP (2011?) there was a NJ State Trooper in the tower ordering black flags to cars if he didn’t like how they were being driven. I don’t remember if he wrote any citations, but the moral of the story was you can be written for on-track incidents in NJ. Much the same reason as Lemons harness rule is different there than any other track in the country.

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  • From: East Meadow, NY
  • Registered: 2009-08-06
  • Posts: 1,553

Re: Insurance/Liability

meyers0150 wrote:
Guildenstern wrote:

(except some weird BS in New Jersey where you can get a reckless driving ticket because Jersey)

What is this?  Jersey resident here but I've never heard of this.  Reckless driving while on track?

Racing in NJ is run by and has links to the State Police. It is utterly stupid and completely insane. It wouldn't surprise me if they did something insane like this.

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  • Type44
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  • From: Phoenix, AZ
  • Registered: 2011-07-23
  • Posts: 1,696

Re: Insurance/Liability

Proximity, or complete lack thereof, is only the second ranked reason I will never race in NJ. Absolutely ridiculous... there are enough “Gotcha!” Moments in life without running afoul of the trooper in the tower. Fuggedaboutit!

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  • From: Gilbertsville, PA
  • Registered: 2009-12-22
  • Posts: 3,251

Re: Insurance/Liability

gtopat wrote:
meyers0150 wrote:

What is this?  Jersey resident here but I've never heard of this.  Reckless driving while on track?

I forget the finer details, but the first year we ran at NJMP (2011?) there was a NJ State Trooper in the tower ordering black flags to cars if he didn’t like how they were being driven. I don’t remember if he wrote any citations, but the moral of the story was you can be written for on-track incidents in NJ. Much the same reason as Lemons harness rule is different there than any other track in the country.


how did I not know this?  This is why I drive a racecar, the crap you do on a racetrack is generally frowned upon on the highway.

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  • From: Chicago-ish
  • Registered: 2010-04-19
  • Posts: 3,497

Re: Insurance/Liability

gtopat wrote:
meyers0150 wrote:

What is this?  Jersey resident here but I've never heard of this.  Reckless driving while on track?

I forget the finer details, but the first year we ran at NJMP (2011?) there was a NJ State Trooper in the tower ordering black flags to cars if he didn’t like how they were being driven. I don’t remember if he wrote any citations, but the moral of the story was you can be written for on-track incidents in NJ. Much the same reason as Lemons harness rule is different there than any other track in the country.

To date, this only happened once in the first year at NJMP.

However, my understanding is that there has often been NJ State Troopers in the paddock double-checking harness dates and/or making sure the gas pump is attended.

Eric Rood
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  • From: Akron-Canton
  • Registered: 2016-04-01
  • Posts: 85

Re: Insurance/Liability

therood wrote:
gtopat wrote:
meyers0150 wrote:

What is this?  Jersey resident here but I've never heard of this.  Reckless driving while on track?

I forget the finer details, but the first year we ran at NJMP (2011?) there was a NJ State Trooper in the tower ordering black flags to cars if he didn’t like how they were being driven. I don’t remember if he wrote any citations, but the moral of the story was you can be written for on-track incidents in NJ. Much the same reason as Lemons harness rule is different there than any other track in the country.

To date, this only happened once in the first year at NJMP.

However, my understanding is that there has often been NJ State Troopers in the paddock double-checking harness dates and/or making sure the gas pump is attended.


Yes....The all important "only a trained pump operator (that doesn't speak english)shall dispense the dinosaur juice" rules

MBTL Racing