Re: First Time Racer starting build!

Other cars from other series at not super useful comparisons, neither are top speed numbers because you're only ever hitting that top speed in one place on the track. It's far more useful to look at speed per gear for your full setup (trans gearing, diff gearing, tire size) and compare that to average corner and segment speeds for various points along the tracks you want to run. If you have a bunch of places where you're on the hairy edge of needing to change a gear 5 seconds before a breaking zone that is much more important to fix compared to your top speed. We have that a couple places at NH where I really want to be shifting to 4th, but the braking zone is right there, so my choices are shift and get on the gas for 2 seconds, or lift for 3 seconds. Also at NH the turn onto the uphill we're in a weird place where 2nd is almost too low, but 3rd is bit too high and we get smoked going up that hill. I would love to shift something up or down to eliminate those "dead zones", but not going to happen in the saab.

I built out a whole spreadsheet somewhere for the E36 when trying to pick a transmission and diff, and not once did top speed come into play, instead it was looking at speed per gear and trying to minimize the points of awkward shifting like described above.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: First Time Racer starting build!

TheEngineer wrote:

Other cars from other series at not super useful comparisons, neither are top speed numbers because you're only ever hitting that top speed in one place on the track. It's far more useful to look at speed per gear for your full setup (trans gearing, diff gearing, tire size) and compare that to average corner and segment speeds for various points along the tracks you want to run. If you have a bunch of places where you're on the hairy edge of needing to change a gear 5 seconds before a breaking zone that is much more important to fix compared to your top speed. We have that a couple places at NH where I really want to be shifting to 4th, but the braking zone is right there, so my choices are shift and get on the gas for 2 seconds, or lift for 3 seconds. Also at NH the turn onto the uphill we're in a weird place where 2nd is almost too low, but 3rd is bit too high and we get smoked going up that hill. I would love to shift something up or down to eliminate those "dead zones", but not going to happen in the saab.

I built out a whole spreadsheet somewhere for the E36 when trying to pick a transmission and diff, and not once did top speed come into play, instead it was looking at speed per gear and trying to minimize the points of awkward shifting like described above.


We might just end up keeping all three gears and seeing how speeds and such works out.

I’d love the extra cash to keep the build dollars low, but don’t want to not have options.


But let’s be honest. We are all newbies and this is all probably over thinking

Re: First Time Racer starting build!

TheEngineer wrote:

Other cars from other series at not super useful comparisons, neither are top speed numbers because you're only ever hitting that top speed in one place on the track. It's far more useful to look at speed per gear for your full setup (trans gearing, diff gearing, tire size) and compare that to average corner and segment speeds for various points along the tracks you want to run. If you have a bunch of places where you're on the hairy edge of needing to change a gear 5 seconds before a breaking zone that is much more important to fix compared to your top speed. We have that a couple places at NH where I really want to be shifting to 4th, but the braking zone is right there, so my choices are shift and get on the gas for 2 seconds, or lift for 3 seconds. Also at NH the turn onto the uphill we're in a weird place where 2nd is almost too low, but 3rd is bit too high and we get smoked going up that hill. I would love to shift something up or down to eliminate those "dead zones", but not going to happen in the saab.

I built out a whole spreadsheet somewhere for the E36 when trying to pick a transmission and diff, and not once did top speed come into play, instead it was looking at speed per gear and trying to minimize the points of awkward shifting like described above.


We might just end up keeping all three gears and seeing how speeds and such works out.

I’d love the extra cash to keep the build dollars low, but don’t want to not have options.


But let’s be honest. We are all newbies and this is all probably over thinking

Re: First Time Racer starting build!

TheEngineer wrote:

Other cars from other series at not super useful comparisons, neither are top speed numbers because you're only ever hitting that top speed in one place on the track. It's far more useful to look at speed per gear for your full setup (trans gearing, diff gearing, tire size) and compare that to average corner and segment speeds for various points along the tracks you want to run. If you have a bunch of places where you're on the hairy edge of needing to change a gear 5 seconds before a breaking zone that is much more important to fix compared to your top speed. We have that a couple places at NH where I really want to be shifting to 4th, but the braking zone is right there, so my choices are shift and get on the gas for 2 seconds, or lift for 3 seconds. Also at NH the turn onto the uphill we're in a weird place where 2nd is almost too low, but 3rd is bit too high and we get smoked going up that hill. I would love to shift something up or down to eliminate those "dead zones", but not going to happen in the saab.

I built out a whole spreadsheet somewhere for the E36 when trying to pick a transmission and diff, and not once did top speed come into play, instead it was looking at speed per gear and trying to minimize the points of awkward shifting like described above.

We might just end up keeping all three gears and seeing how speeds and such works out.

I’d love the extra cash to keep the build dollars low, but don’t want to not have options.


But let’s be honest. We are all newbies and this is all probably over thinking

Re: First Time Racer starting build!

Mgoblue06 wrote:
TheEngineer wrote:

Other cars from other series at not super useful comparisons, neither are top speed numbers because you're only ever hitting that top speed in one place on the track. It's far more useful to look at speed per gear for your full setup (trans gearing, diff gearing, tire size) and compare that to average corner and segment speeds for various points along the tracks you want to run. If you have a bunch of places where you're on the hairy edge of needing to change a gear 5 seconds before a breaking zone that is much more important to fix compared to your top speed. We have that a couple places at NH where I really want to be shifting to 4th, but the braking zone is right there, so my choices are shift and get on the gas for 2 seconds, or lift for 3 seconds. Also at NH the turn onto the uphill we're in a weird place where 2nd is almost too low, but 3rd is bit too high and we get smoked going up that hill. I would love to shift something up or down to eliminate those "dead zones", but not going to happen in the saab.

I built out a whole spreadsheet somewhere for the E36 when trying to pick a transmission and diff, and not once did top speed come into play, instead it was looking at speed per gear and trying to minimize the points of awkward shifting like described above.

We might just end up keeping all three gears and seeing how speeds and such works out.

I’d love the extra cash to keep the build dollars low, but don’t want to not have options.


But let’s be honest. We are all newbies and this is all probably over thinking

I don't think you'll get any flack if you bring a nice safe truck to race. Especially if you are keeping it a V6.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: First Time Racer starting build!

TheEngineer wrote:

I built out a whole spreadsheet somewhere for the E36 when trying to pick a transmission and diff, and not once did top speed come into play, instead it was looking at speed per gear and trying to minimize the points of awkward shifting like described above.

Build that spreadsheet for a flathead 6 and Top speed becomes the deciding factor.  Sample size of 1.

Re: First Time Racer starting build!

Ive raced an s10 in Lemons several times.  one thing i can say is that the truck has no problem turning with the stock leaf and solid axle.  Another thing you have a truck, Lemons loves trucks, budget should be least of your concern.  Our s10 has kind of alot of cheaty bits in the suspension.  The engine/trans are bone stock.   Nobody bats an eye at it, gets class b no penalty laps and runs right at the pointy end of class b.  We have c4 corvette brakes on it which work GREAT,  it needs oil cooler and trans cooler on the 3500 or it will splode if youre fast with it.  Single cab SUCKS for the cage.  100% mount the seat first and build the cage AS TIGHT AS POSSIBLE or anyone over 5'9" will not fit, we got the truck pre caged and ive redone so much i have no idea why i didnt just make a new one.   S10 is a ton of fun out there good luck!

959 Toyota Tercel   6x Lemons loser

New England Area roll cages send me an email I'm in Central MA

Re: First Time Racer starting build!

https://i.imgur.com/dV1a66U.jpg

heres our truck intimidating the all evil e36

959 Toyota Tercel   6x Lemons loser

New England Area roll cages send me an email I'm in Central MA

Re: First Time Racer starting build!

NOPANTSDOUGIE wrote:

Ive raced an s10 in Lemons several times.  one thing i can say is that the truck has no problem turning with the stock leaf and solid axle.  Another thing you have a truck, Lemons loves trucks, budget should be least of your concern.  Our s10 has kind of alot of cheaty bits in the suspension.  The engine/trans are bone stock.   Nobody bats an eye at it, gets class b no penalty laps and runs right at the pointy end of class b.  We have c4 corvette brakes on it which work GREAT,  it needs oil cooler and trans cooler on the 3500 or it will splode if youre fast with it.  Single cab SUCKS for the cage.  100% mount the seat first and build the cage AS TIGHT AS POSSIBLE or anyone over 5'9" will not fit, we got the truck pre caged and ive redone so much i have no idea why i didnt just make a new one.   S10 is a ton of fun out there good luck!


You are 100% correct mount the seat before you install the cage. Sit the tallest driver in the seat with helmet, make sure the cage is 2" away. We didn't do that and in our 1st build we had to put the seat almost on the floor. Not ideal for looking out over a long firebird hood.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: First Time Racer starting build!

OnkelUdo wrote:
TheEngineer wrote:

I built out a whole spreadsheet somewhere for the E36 when trying to pick a transmission and diff, and not once did top speed come into play, instead it was looking at speed per gear and trying to minimize the points of awkward shifting like described above.

Build that spreadsheet for a flathead 6 and Top speed becomes the deciding factor.  Sample size of 1.

3 on the tree?

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: First Time Racer starting build!

NOPANTSDOUGIE wrote:

Ive raced an s10 in Lemons several times.  one thing i can say is that the truck has no problem turning with the stock leaf and solid axle.  Another thing you have a truck, Lemons loves trucks, budget should be least of your concern.  Our s10 has kind of alot of cheaty bits in the suspension.  The engine/trans are bone stock.   Nobody bats an eye at it, gets class b no penalty laps and runs right at the pointy end of class b.  We have c4 corvette brakes on it which work GREAT,  it needs oil cooler and trans cooler on the 3500 or it will splode if youre fast with it.  Single cab SUCKS for the cage.  100% mount the seat first and build the cage AS TIGHT AS POSSIBLE or anyone over 5'9" will not fit, we got the truck pre caged and ive redone so much i have no idea why i didnt just make a new one.   S10 is a ton of fun out there good luck!


What did you rig up for an oil cooler and trans cooler?

Re: First Time Racer starting build!

NOPANTSDOUGIE wrote:

https://i.imgur.com/dV1a66U.jpg

heres our truck intimidating the all evil e36


Also, what size wheels and tires are you running here?

Re: First Time Racer starting build!

245/45R17 ON 17X8.5

Im not sure on what or how the coolers are I didnt build the truck i just race it.  I havent seen the trans cooler yet, I havent seen the truck in a while and it wasnt on when I raced it last (and trackside transmission swap occured then) .

959 Toyota Tercel   6x Lemons loser

New England Area roll cages send me an email I'm in Central MA

Re: First Time Racer starting build!

NOPANTSDOUGIE wrote:

245/45R17 ON 17X8.5

Im not sure on what or how the coolers are I didnt build the truck i just race it.  I havent seen the trans cooler yet, I havent seen the truck in a while and it wasnt on when I raced it last (and trackside transmission swap occured then) .

why would you need a trans cooler on a T5? or were you all running an auto? When we ran an Auto (700r4) we used the AC condenser as the cooler.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: First Time Racer starting build!

Mr.Yuck wrote:
NOPANTSDOUGIE wrote:

245/45R17 ON 17X8.5

Im not sure on what or how the coolers are I didnt build the truck i just race it.  I havent seen the trans cooler yet, I havent seen the truck in a while and it wasnt on when I raced it last (and trackside transmission swap occured then) .

why would you need a trans cooler on a T5? or were you all running an auto? When we ran an Auto (700r4) we used the AC condenser as the cooler.


Its an nv3500  idk it got really hot? so hot the brake fluid boiled in the slave and the clutch didnt work after 3 or 4 hours of 1:29s at Thompson?

959 Toyota Tercel   6x Lemons loser

New England Area roll cages send me an email I'm in Central MA

Re: First Time Racer starting build!

Mr.Yuck wrote:
NOPANTSDOUGIE wrote:

245/45R17 ON 17X8.5

Im not sure on what or how the coolers are I didnt build the truck i just race it.  I havent seen the trans cooler yet, I havent seen the truck in a while and it wasnt on when I raced it last (and trackside transmission swap occured then) .

why would you need a trans cooler on a T5? or were you all running an auto? When we ran an Auto (700r4) we used the AC condenser as the cooler.


A a stick shift trans can still overheat under heavy use. It's just not as common a problem.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C x2 and IOE winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

Re: First Time Racer starting build!

NOPANTSDOUGIE wrote:
Mr.Yuck wrote:
NOPANTSDOUGIE wrote:

245/45R17 ON 17X8.5

Im not sure on what or how the coolers are I didnt build the truck i just race it.  I havent seen the trans cooler yet, I havent seen the truck in a while and it wasnt on when I raced it last (and trackside transmission swap occured then) .

why would you need a trans cooler on a T5? or were you all running an auto? When we ran an Auto (700r4) we used the AC condenser as the cooler.


Its an nv3500  idk it got really hot? so hot the brake fluid boiled in the slave and the clutch didnt work after 3 or 4 hours of 1:29s at Thompson?


WOW.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

43 (edited by Mgoblue06 2020-08-22 06:15 AM)

Re: First Time Racer starting build!

Update:

Truck 2 showed up. Cab is junk, found one for 200 bucks on marketplace, but havent hit the yards yet.

Parts that we are keeping off the xtreme are all stripped, so maybe we can trade that pile of junk to the local U Pull it for a cab. Lets hope. lol

Starting the front suspension tomorrow morning. Plans are use the xtreme sway bar, springs, new shocks, and steering box. Hopefully have the rear end mocked up by next weekend!!

Re: First Time Racer starting build!

Mgoblue06 wrote:

Update:

Truck 2 showed up. Cab is junk, found one for 200 bucks on marketplace, but havent hit the yards yet.

Parts that we are keeping off the xtreme are all stripped, so maybe we can trade that pile of junk to the local U Pull it for a cab. Lets hope. lol

Starting the front suspension tomorrow morning. Plans are use the xtreme sway bar, springs, new shocks, and steering box. Hopefully have the rear end mocked up by next weekend!!


Sometimes it is better to spend a little more for a nice clean starting point. As mentioned nobody is going to hammer you for racing a pick-up. Unless you drop an LS in it or something. Our 1st car cost $850 running driving rust free 84 L69 Trans Am...almost a shame to cut it up. I sold over $1200 in parts. A bunch to some guy in Sweden.
Good luck, truck are cool.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: First Time Racer starting build!

Mr.Yuck wrote:
Mgoblue06 wrote:

Update:

Truck 2 showed up. Cab is junk, found one for 200 bucks on marketplace, but havent hit the yards yet.

Parts that we are keeping off the xtreme are all stripped, so maybe we can trade that pile of junk to the local U Pull it for a cab. Lets hope. lol

Starting the front suspension tomorrow morning. Plans are use the xtreme sway bar, springs, new shocks, and steering box. Hopefully have the rear end mocked up by next weekend!!


Sometimes it is better to spend a little more for a nice clean starting point. As mentioned nobody is going to hammer you for racing a pick-up. Unless you drop an LS in it or something. Our 1st car cost $850 running driving rust free 84 L69 Trans Am...almost a shame to cut it up. I sold over $1200 in parts. A bunch to some guy in Sweden.
Good luck, truck are cool.


Agreed. The rust free starting point is a must to all newbies. Can get overwhelmed quickly