Lemons car info (Page 1 of 2)

Most of these questions have been previously answered if you search the site.
1.  I'd go with the GTP
2.  They don't specify method.  I suppose an amazing stick welder could make a cage that will pass but I'd want mig or tig.  Cage building is a bit of an art so I wouldn't suggest doing it yourself if your welding skills are lacking in any way or you don't educate your self on the order of operations of building one.  There are people who sell pre-bent cages if you have someone who is a good welder   Also study the "How not to fail tech" guide.  The Lemons store sells safety gear.
3.  Tire opinions = buttholes.  Azeni RT615k, Hankook RS4 and Dunlop Direzza are popular 200TW tires
4.  You're probably gonna have around $5k in the car by the time its all said and done unless you are very good at scrounging so be prepared to lay out some dough to make this happen.  Racing cheap cars does not always equate to cheap racing.  Search this site for basic info.  They kicked around the idea of having experienced Lemons racers be available to serve as mentors for newbies.  Maybe email HQ to ask if that program is available and if someone is in your area.

I Am brand new , and going to my first race in 14 days. So I may not have the most experience. But here is what I learned building my team and car

Car,  something reliable and popular.
Popular = cheap plentiful parts
Small and light is better than big and heavy
I ended up with a crown vic.  (Oops.  Big and heavy)

Tires.    Dont worry about that until after you bought car, and decided if upgraded rims and brakes are necessary.   We moved up from stock 15s to 17s for bigger tires and brakes.   

Welding was the trick part for us, so i waited until i found a pre raced Lemons car with a cage.
Mine had already passed Lemons tech.
I hunted craigslist, this forum and facebook market place for a year.
(Keywords roll cage or race car) 
If you buy a preraced car, BE CAREFUL.
Other series cages may not pass Lemons tech.  Buying a circle track car and cage is worthless.
We bought a used Lemons race car that already passed tech.

Wanna race now?  Go to "teams looking for drivers" and "Drivers looking for teams" on the forum.   Lots of options. I got 2 of my 4 driverrs there.

14 hour race, 4 drivers.
24 hour race, you can do up to 6 drivers.

Racesuitrental.com  for a rental suit and helmet.

Plan on spending $5,000 to $7,000 between today and your first race, if you include admission, car, weld a cage, safety gear, uniforms,  fire suppression, etc.

Vrbo.com and airbnb.com for race housing, when you are ready.

Dont pay race fees until your car is ready, but signing up for a race is free.

Print off " how to not fail Lemons tech" from this website, and make all your team read it.

There is a ton of good information on this forum .
Most of these guys are brilliant, but there are one or two idiots that don't know what they're talking about, but post often.
So be careful on any advice you get on this forum.

O.P.    "re read the rules"  and "ask Pagel" is always the correct answer

Newton,  thank you for self reporting, but the Black Flag was not for you.

You are good to go.  Green Flag

dup

I would say build what you know. If you are an import FWD guy build that. The GTP would be a PITA to work on. The V6 is sideways. If you have never built a cage, have somebody else do it. Be prepared to pay. Our cage is the most expense thing in/on the car. We run a 88 Firebird and are happy with Dunlop Direzza's.  You probably want to build something you can get parts at any parts store. Odd ball cars are cool, but if you need a brake rotor or distributor, you are done for the weekend.

Re: Cage building - You can do it. However, there are some big caveats.

Here are some things to ponder:

- Build your cage on plinth boxes. It's A LOT easier, and makes 360° welds easier.
- Use the largest diameter you can (1.75"), with the thickest wall that makes sense (.120" wall), for your first cage.
   Overbuilt is better than underbuilt.
- Mandrel bends only!! No crush bending.
- No grinding on welds without express permission from J.Pagel. (You probably won't get it.)
- If your welding skills are Meh, make weld samples of tubing joints and tube/plate joints and send pics to John Pagel.
   He'll tell you if they suck or pass. BTW, it's always easier to weld on a bench, so make you samples in side of a box, or something,
   to simulate difficult welding positions.
- Take the time to have as little gap as possible on your joints.
- Install your main hoop a bit behind the B-pillar for extra fore/aft space.
- 4-door cars have easier access for cage building.
- READ THE DAMNED "How Not to Fail Lemons Tech Inspection" manual many, many times.
- Buy more tubing than you think you'll need.
- Check OffRoadFabNet for cage building tutorials, advice, and ideas. There's a lot there.
- Try to keep your bars as tight to the sheetmetal as you can manage.
- Remove the glass for install.
- Look for fluid lines and wiring harnesses under the areas you will be welding on.

That's just a few of the things to keep in mind.
Good luck, and enjoy the build.

I learned Motorcycle helmets will not pass tech

I will look on ebay and such thanks for the idea i never thought to look there duh!!!!

i will have to have someone build a cage my welding experience is youtube tutorials and mig welding exhausts together with enough slag so it doesnt fall off lol.

check raceimage.com as well

+1 on stalking deals on ebay if you are patient and have time. You can start inexpensively with closeouts and "worn once" gear.  I got everything except the neck harness from overstock/clearance sales, dirt cheap. You can find a lot of deals from people upgrading, too; and then upgrade if you stick with racing (lots of folks don't). Lemons actually has the best prices on nomex long johns if you snag a single-layer suit cheap (they are as low as $45/50 new).  And great deals from drivers that started with the low-cost suits and upgraded to the NASCAR surplus stuff, like Big Bird (and I) did.

I started in December 2019, planning for the Sept 2020 Buttonwillow race. We are just barely getting it done.

Forced induction cars have a history of blowing up in Lemons. I'd suggest having a complete and known good spare engine and transmission on hand. Also, make sure your cooling system is up to date and unrestricted. Have new spare waterpump, hoses, pullys and belts on hand.

Had my cage pro welded at a shop, cost around $3k (including welding the seat and belt mounts and a few other small items).

There are several good options in TW200, we are using Yokohama Advan. Brakes, we are running ST43 brake pads, plain EBC rotors and Motul brake fluid.

Focus on reliability.