Topic: Budget across multiple races/years?

This may be a potentially stupid question but I couldn't find an answer easily. It might have been answered already (potentially multiple times), but I haven't ran across the answer yet. Anyways..

So the budget restriction is $500 as we all know. So if I were to enter, I'd have to acquire and modify a car for under that budget. Pretty simple.
However, if I were to come back in say, 2022 with the same car, would what I spent on it before contribute to the budget and leave me with nothing, or would I get more money to work with?

Re: Budget across multiple races/years?

I am.happy to answer, but i am a rookie myself.

The $500 budget is for the car, engine & trans.
$500 to make the car go.


Everything else is unlimited.
Unlimited budget for brakes and tires
Unlimited for safety gear like the cage, seat, and fire supression.

No, you dont get another $500 budget for next year.
No, you cant buy a $500 engine upgrade in 2022.

Former Captain
1996 Crown Vic. #55
Team Racing Cosmo

Re: Budget across multiple races/years?

^Answer is not correct.  Please don't answer questions when you you dont know the answer.  After each race, you can email Judge Phil and ask for a residual value.  He may set a residual of $200, leaving you $300 to spend on upgrades to your next race.  He could set your residual at $0, leaving you $500.  The residual process is how you see years old racecars exceed the $500 spending limit.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

Re: Budget across multiple races/years?

cheseroo wrote:

^Answer is not correct.  Please don't answer questions when you you dont know the answer.  After each race, you can email Judge Phil and ask for a residual value.  He may set a residual of $200, leaving you $300 to spend on upgrades to your next race.  He could set your residual at $0, leaving you $500.  The residual process is how you see years old racecars exceed the $500 spending limit.

I appreciate the response, thanks! I figured there would be some system like that but I really didn't want to assume. Unfortunately I'm not in a place to compete due to financial reasons (plus no team, plus time commitments for college, COVID, et cetera.) I'll admit my exposure to Lemons is limited, but I've gotten the impression that people are pretty warm to newcomers. How easy is it to get into the series, both socially and competitively?

Re: Budget across multiple races/years?

Thank you cheeseroo.  My bad.  I appologize.
Bob

Former Captain
1996 Crown Vic. #55
Team Racing Cosmo

Re: Budget across multiple races/years?

AspieRandonneur wrote:
cheseroo wrote:

^Answer is not correct.  Please don't answer questions when you you dont know the answer.  After each race, you can email Judge Phil and ask for a residual value.  He may set a residual of $200, leaving you $300 to spend on upgrades to your next race.  He could set your residual at $0, leaving you $500.  The residual process is how you see years old racecars exceed the $500 spending limit.

I appreciate the response, thanks! I figured there would be some system like that but I really didn't want to assume. Unfortunately I'm not in a place to compete due to financial reasons (plus no team, plus time commitments for college, COVID, et cetera.) I'll admit my exposure to Lemons is limited, but I've gotten the impression that people are pretty warm to newcomers. How easy is it to get into the series, both socially and competitively?

Super easy. 

When COVID restrictions are relaxed come to a race.  You just need to pay the gate fee of $30.  You can wander around the paddock, meet different teams, make friends.  With COVID, there is no spectating.

After that you could do an arrive and drive. Many teams are looking for another driver to fill a seat.  Typically it is $600 - 800 for a seat, a competitive team may be more.  You can also rent gear for ~$200 for the weekend.  All in it is around $1000 for a weekend which will probably include ~3 hours of driving time if everything works out.

Team whatever_racecar #745 Volvo wagon

Re: Budget across multiple races/years?

cheseroo wrote:

^Answer is not correct.  Please don't answer questions when you you dont know the answer.  After each race, you can email Judge Phil and ask for a residual value.  He may set a residual of $200, leaving you $300 to spend on upgrades to your next race.  He could set your residual at $0, leaving you $500.  The residual process is how you see years old racecars exceed the $500 spending limit.

Y'all please be nice, this is supposed to be the flame-free section so newbies aren't scared off by the grumpy, grizzled vets.

bobnowoc's answer is generally correct, although perhaps not completely accurate. The only inaccuracy I see is the "you don't get another $500 next year", which may or may not be true based on any residual value.

Cheeseroo is correct about residual values, but none of the teams that I know well even bother to ask.  My observation is that if you spend less than $500 in improvements per year on most hoopties, you can expect to do so annually without worrying about getting penalty laps.  If you have a car that is older, has a reputation for poor performance or reliability, or is otherwise a low threat for winning anything, then you'll pretty well sail through BS inspection every time unless you show up with a car that has new coilovers and/or a big collection of shiny new bits under the hood.  I think if you brought a 2CV, an '88 Tempo, or anything with Lucas electrics you could spend thousands without penalty laps.  If you buy that Studebaker Scotsman wagon that I saw on Craigslist last month, you could make ANY engine or suspension upgrade imaginable with nary a penalty lap.  Come to think of it, it would have been pre-themed - just buy kilts...wonder if it's still there...

And remember, penalty laps only matter if you're competitive for a trophy: so they are irrelevant to most teams.

rb92673's suggestion is good: go to a Lemons race when they open back up to spectators, and bring your friends who may be interested in racing with you. Wander the paddock, look at the different cars and teams, and feel free to ask questions of any team who isn't desperately wrenching on their broken car or currently cussing and throwing wrenches at the car, each other, or around the paddock in general. If either of those conditions are present, odds are that they have a very broken car and won't be in the mood to politely answer your questions.  Otherwise, most teams will be happy to tell you about their car - advantages and disadvantages of that model, why they chose it (often the answer is "it's what we found at the right price"), what they've done to it, etc.  Ask anyone in a driver's suit what team they're with and what they drive.  Stick around and wander the paddock after the race ends Saturday night and watch the activity. If you see a team rotating tires and checking fluids rather than wrenching madly, watch and engage in conversation when they are done.  If you don't want to wait until COVID restrictions on spectating are lifted, check the forums and offer to join a team as a maintenance crew.  Many teams would be happy to have you help with tire changes, fetch the "x" mm socket from the toolbox, run from paddock to paddock to find/borrow an 8mm triple box wrench, be the camp cook/coffeemaker/waterboy, refill fuel jugs, and even help refuel if you have the gear.  A lot of teams would even pay your entry fee in exchange for those chores.  Look for a team in your area, or post to help an out-of-town team at a race near you.

Re: Budget across multiple races/years?

Racesuitrental.com will rent you all your Lemons wearable gear for a $200 fee, but they require you to send them a fully refundable deposit, something like $500.

Former Captain
1996 Crown Vic. #55
Team Racing Cosmo

Re: Budget across multiple races/years?

Stan in Bham wrote:

[...] go to a Lemons race when they open back up to spectators, and bring your friends who may be interested in racing with you. Wander the paddock, look at the different cars and teams, and feel free to ask questions of any team who isn't desperately wrenching on their broken car or currently cussing and throwing wrenches at the car, each other, or around the paddock in general. If either of those conditions are present, odds are that they have a very broken car and won't be in the mood to politely answer your questions.  Otherwise, most teams will be happy to tell you about their car - advantages and disadvantages of that model, why they chose it (often the answer is "it's what we found at the right price"), what they've done to it, etc.  Ask anyone in a driver's suit what team they're with and what they drive.  Stick around and wander the paddock after the race ends Saturday night and watch the activity. If you see a team rotating tires and checking fluids rather than wrenching madly, watch and engage in conversation when they are done.  If you don't want to wait until COVID restrictions on spectating are lifted, check the forums and offer to join a team as a maintenance crew.  Many teams would be happy to have you help with tire changes, fetch the "x" mm socket from the toolbox, run from paddock to paddock to find/borrow an 8mm triple box wrench, be the camp cook/coffeemaker/waterboy, refill fuel jugs, and even help refuel if you have the gear.  A lot of teams would even pay your entry fee in exchange for those chores.  Look for a team in your area, or post to help an out-of-town team at a race near you.

The big issue I have with this is I'm in Indiana with no reliable transportation, and I'm unaware of any events within a sensible distance. When I'm financially on my feet, it won't be too big an issue though. I'm currently in training to be a mechanic, and having exposure to a Lemons event would definitely give me some "interesting" experience, especially if a team or two lets me watch over their shoulder.

But it's something that needs to sit on the backburner for a bit. My car is not in a position to make a major trek, and my asthma is keeping me on my toes with COVID. Hopefully things change by next year though.

Stan in Bham wrote:

[...]be the camp cook/coffeemaker/waterboy[...]

Slight issue with that, there'd be no coffee left for the team after I'm done with it!

Re: Budget across multiple races/years?

AspieRandonneur wrote:
Stan in Bham wrote:

[...]be the camp cook/coffeemaker/waterboy[...]

Slight issue with that, there'd be no coffee left for the team after I'm done with it!

Then you clearly aren't making enough coffee. 55 Gallon Drum Percolator or bust!

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Budget across multiple races/years?

AspieRandonneur wrote:

[

The big issue I have with this is I'm in Indiana with no reliable transportation, and I'm unaware of any events within a sensible distance. When I'm financially on my feet, it won't be too big an issue though. I'm currently in training to be a mechanic, and having exposure to a Lemons event would definitely give me some "interesting" experience, especially if a team or two lets me watch over their shoulder.

But it's something that needs to sit on the backburner for a bit. My car is not in a position to make a major trek, and my asthma is keeping me on my toes with COVID. Hopefully things change by next year though.

Where in Indiana?

There are races in southern Michigan (Gingerman) and Joliet (autobahn). Not too far of a hike depending on where you’re at.

There are a few teams based out of Indiana. We are in NW Indiana/far south suburbs.  Another option is to contact local team to hang out while working on the car. They’ll give you some perspective on how it all works. 

If you are low on funds, a lot of teams could use help with organization, sometimes known as the team mom. You make sure everyone is where they are supposed to be, suited up, fed, organize tools, etc.

Re: Budget across multiple races/years?

Yep, you're right.  My response was a bit harsh.  Apologies for that.  Forgot for a moment that this isn't the Citrus Racer's Lounge where the founder who had never raced in his life regularly handed out bad information.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

Re: Budget across multiple races/years?

Thanks cheesro.
I didnt feel any hate.
I was wrong.
I get to be right next time it is asked.

Bob

Former Captain
1996 Crown Vic. #55
Team Racing Cosmo

Re: Budget across multiple races/years?

My experiences on residule value:

  • Jay = $499.07 - I left you enough to buy a pine tree air freshener.

  • Phil = Just fix the transmission (an automatic) and make it reliable. Definitely more than $500

Capt. Delinquent Racing
RUST-TITE XR4Ti - '21 ARSE-FREEZE-APALOOZA  I Got Screwed
The One & Only Taurus V8 SHO #31(now moved on to another OG Delinquent)
'17 Vodden the Hell - (No) Hope for the Future Award, '08 AMP Survivor, '08 ARSE-FREEZE-APALOOZA Mega-Cheater

Re: Budget across multiple races/years?

rlchv70 wrote:

Where in Indiana?

There are races in southern Michigan (Gingerman) and Joliet (autobahn). Not too far of a hike depending on where you’re at.

There are a few teams based out of Indiana. We are in NW Indiana/far south suburbs.  Another option is to contact local team to hang out while working on the car. They’ll give you some perspective on how it all works. 

If you are low on funds, a lot of teams could use help with organization, sometimes known as the team mom. You make sure everyone is where they are supposed to be, suited up, fed, organize tools, etc.

Indianapolis area, the route to Gingerman puts it at just over 200 miles away from me. Joliet seems to be a bit more doable as I could take a greyhound to Chicago and potentially bribe a friend in the area to drive me. (Or as a backup, there's both train and bus routes available to there).

As a side question, do you know of any teams in the Indy area that would be open to having a random nerd nearby? I might be able to help with some minor organization with tools but most of the time would be filled with the nerd asking a seemingly endless series of questions.

16 (edited by majo 2020-09-06 06:41 PM)

Re: Budget across multiple races/years?

Another thing to keep in mind -- if you race something truly awful, you will rarely be scrutinized for spending money for upgrades between races.

Example -- you replace your 74 AMC Matador's 258 inline six with a 360 V8.  Good.

               --  you replace your E36's stock suspension with a ( cough cough ) "used" coil-over set up.  Bad.

Edit:  Ooops  -- saw that a similar response was already made earlier.  Carry on!

COM ( Chief Operating Moron ) of Burnt Rubber Soul Racing
Current fleet: 95 Ford Probe, 81 Mazda 626.  Past: 81 Imperial
Facebook page:  https://www.facebook.com/burntrubbersoulracing

Re: Budget across multiple races/years?

Remember that not all parts are counted in the budget. Things like wheel bearings, ball joints, brakes, suspension parts that don't change your performance like control arms, they can all affect your safety and they do wear out. Racing puts a lot of wear and tear on the car, so you should have a budget for just general parts that won't technically go against your performance budget.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Budget across multiple races/years?

rlchv70 wrote:
AspieRandonneur wrote:

[

The big issue I have with this is I'm in Indiana with no reliable transportation, and I'm unaware of any events within a sensible distance. When I'm financially on my feet, it won't be too big an issue though. I'm currently in training to be a mechanic, and having exposure to a Lemons event would definitely give me some "interesting" experience, especially if a team or two lets me watch over their shoulder.

But it's something that needs to sit on the backburner for a bit. My car is not in a position to make a major trek, and my asthma is keeping me on my toes with COVID. Hopefully things change by next year though.

Where in Indiana?

There are races in southern Michigan (Gingerman) and Joliet (autobahn). Not too far of a hike depending on where you’re at.

There are a few teams based out of Indiana. We are in NW Indiana/far south suburbs.  Another option is to contact local team to hang out while working on the car. They’ll give you some perspective on how it all works. 

If you are low on funds, a lot of teams could use help with organization, sometimes known as the team mom. You make sure everyone is where they are supposed to be, suited up, fed, organize tools, etc.

I know this is a year old, but I'm in southern Indiana trying to figure out what teams are around me and coming up a bit empty. What are the other Indiana teams you're aware of? Thanks!

Re: Budget across multiple races/years?

dahlberg.ba wrote:

I know this is a year old, but I'm in southern Indiana trying to figure out what teams are around me and coming up a bit empty. What are the other Indiana teams you're aware of? Thanks!

How southern?  What’s your closest city  Know some folks in Indy, Kokomo, and Ft. Wayne. Can also help you get in touch with some folks in Kentucky.

20 (edited by chaase 2021-06-29 05:55 AM)

Re: Budget across multiple races/years?

majo wrote:

Another thing to keep in mind -- if you race something truly awful, you will rarely be scrutinized for spending money for upgrades between races.

Example -- you replace your 74 AMC Matador's 258 inline six with a 360 V8.  Good.

               --  you replace your E36's stock suspension with a ( cough cough ) "used" coil-over set up.  Bad.

Edit:  Ooops  -- saw that a similar response was already made earlier.  Carry on!

Yeah...No one questioned the budget on the Javelin. I don't know if swapping the V6 for the V8 would be a positive though. Our AMC 360 burn rate is like 12 gallons/hour. She is fast but man it drinks fuel 8-)

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C x2 and IOE winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

21 (edited by SwarlesInCharge 2021-07-03 07:21 PM)

Re: Budget across multiple races/years?

I got a residual one time, but it was really just to swap out the auto and Phil said just do it.

Every race Eric asked us what we did and usually reply with boring stuff that won't make us competitive but may prevent us from causing a mess (new coolant expansion tank & cap, lower rad hose, etc.) Once the judges know you, they know whether or not to care. Fast or well-organized teams probably get more scrutiny than people who are consistently in the bottom half and there for fun.

We're based out of Indy. You should come down to NCM.

-Robert, Party Sheep Racing
The Jerry Lundegaard GMAC Financing Award, Joliet 2013 [Cutlass Ciera w/ Iron Duke]
Eta E30: IL Fall '15, MI Spring '16, IL Summer '16, MI Spring '17, KY '17, MI Summer '21, KY '21, MI Summer '21, MI Fall '22