Topic: Helmet certification for 2021

Hello all, new to the forum and Lemons racing!

Years back I bought a helmet in anticipation of running a Chump/Lemons car with a guy who was doing a ridiculous build but should have been fun.  Long story short he ended up moving to the DR and scrapping everything leaving me without a team.

Life happened and in that time I decided against finding a random team to join.  Lately some friends and I have formed a new team and bought a car, prepping to run in 2021. 

My helmet is a Simpson SA2010 rated unit that's only been used for some local karting.  I know for 2020 Lemons is still accepting SA2010 helmets but worried that may change to SA2015 minimum for 2021.  Does anyone know of impending changes to this rule?  Is it possible to have a helmet recertified to a newer date (my research says no but I would be happy to be wrong)?

Thanks for the help!

Re: Helmet certification for 2021

As far as I know, a helmet cannot be recertified to a newer date. In 2021, SA2015 will be the minimum requirement and if history repeats it will be good through 2025 season.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
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1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

Re: Helmet certification for 2021

Here's some interesting information:

SA2015 Release Notes

It references helmets in good condition, not damaged, perhaps not needing to be replaced.

Recommends replacing helmets 5 years after they were first worn.

The cover for the new SA2020 standard shows the small changes in the impact standards.

But they do reference 'the immediate previous standard', which would make obsolete the SA2010 helmets.

How strict are the inspectors about the condition of the helmets? And, date of first use?

Re: Helmet certification for 2021

Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:

Here's some interesting information:

It references helmets in good condition, not damaged, perhaps not needing to be replaced.

Recommends replacing helmets 5 years after they were first worn.

The cover for the new SA2020 standard shows the small changes in the impact standards.

But they do reference 'the immediate previous standard', which would make obsolete the SA2010 helmets.

How strict are the inspectors about the condition of the helmets? And, date of first use?

And what constitutes "first use"?  I have worn it a few times on a kart track (not anything professional just a local place) but never in a car let alone competition.

I imagine it's going to be useless after this season which....bummer.  Hate to toss a perfect condition lid for no reason

Re: Helmet certification for 2021

Exactly. That's why I asked about a visual inspection. But, organizations are risk averse, and for good reason.

One of the standards documents (above) discusses continued production under the previous standard up to about a year (and a quarter?) after the new standard becomes effective, because new standard stickers can't be used until the implementation date; and, I'm sure, because production needs to continue until new standard helmets are actually (destructively) tested for compliance and approval, and are available.

So, first use within certification standard could reasonably be considered to be as late as that "new old standard stock" end date.

But that means the SA2010 will be outdated - by date standard, anyway - soon.

.:. In the sport I play, I've done safety inspection at national and international events. The first inspection is always a quick look to see if the head/face protection is in good shape to begin with. Then you look at the cert tag. At one event, I saw the head tech look at one piece, and immediately destroy it beyond any further potential use by the athlete - even at home. It was very old, but had obviously just been used in warm-up.

And we both confiscated equipment that was recent production and recent standard, because they shouldn't be used anymore - but those had parts that could be reused with another base unit. But they would be hard to pick out of the crowd, so we kept them off the floor until the event was over.

Re: Helmet certification for 2021

Your SA2010 helmet cannot be used for competition in 2021.  Its a couple hundred for a SA2015 so just get one and move on.  I've got a few dated out helmets.  Its all part of the deal.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

Re: Helmet certification for 2021

Assuming for a minute that the verbiage in the standard is written with the intent that some clock does start the first time you wear it, that is way too hard to enforce for an organization as large as this series. I don't think you'll ever see Lemons adopt some rule allowing different people to use helmets different lengths of time. They will stick with what is easy to enforce, which at the moment is 10years from the year on the SA rating. SA2010 helmets are good through the end of 2020, regardless of how much you've used it. SA2015 good through 2025, and SA2020 good through 2030.

The only exception they have ever made was giving SA2005 helmets an extra year because the SA2015 models were not coming out on time, so it was almost impossible to get a new one by the end of 2015. I don't think the same will happen this year as the SA2020 models do seem to be coming out now (something about they couldn't sell/ship them before October 1?)



Sucks to lose a helmet that never really got used, but that's the rule. My advice is get an SA2020, not an SA2015, you'll get an extra 5 years of life out of it.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Helmet certification for 2021

I have not seen anything from Lemons that states SA2010 helmets will expire at the end of this year. It only says:

     Undamaged, full-face Type SA helmet, Snell SA2010 or newer, mandatory. SA2010 helmets are legal throughout the 2020 season. 

It does not say they are not allowed in 2021.  With COVID, SA2020s were delayed, perhaps they will give us some more time.

Team whatever_racecar #745 Volvo wagon

9 (edited by bobnowoc 2020-10-26 05:06 PM)

Re: Helmet certification for 2021

That note came from Snell, not from Lemons. I would read the Lemons rules again. But as I read it, OP's 2010 helmet would not be usable in 2021.

But i dont know.  Maybe email Pagel, Eric Rood or Nick

Former Captain
1996 Crown Vic. #55
Team Racing Cosmo

Re: Helmet certification for 2021

bobnowoc wrote:

That note came from Snell, not from Lemons. I would read the Lemons rules again. But as I read it, OP's 2010 helmet would not be usable in 2021.

But i dont know.  Maybe email Pagel, Eric Rood or Nick

The Lemons rule states 2010s are usable through the end of 2020 but does not give any indication of future restrictions. My base assumption is it will be outdated by next year and I will replace with a 2020 if necessary but if not necessary even better.

Also hello to a fellow Raleigh member!

Thanks for the replies everyone, I guess we'll see what the rules say for next year. No sense sweating it until the time comes, I have plenty of other gear to find in the mean time

Re: Helmet certification for 2021

COVID did not delay SA2020.  The spec was preliminarily out in 2019, finalized in April 2020 with the spec written to prohibit sales of SA2020 cert helmets prior to Oct 1, 2020.  Lemons gave a couple month extension for SA2000 or  SA2005 helmets (I forget which) when there was supply chain problems but there is no such issue now.  Your SA2010 helmet will not be competition legal in 2021.  There's no weaseling around this one.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

Re: Helmet certification for 2021

Yeah, the wording of "SA2010 helmets are legal throughout the 2020 season" is telling you that they are good for 2020, no longer. The historical precedent has been set that helmets get 10 years from the SA date, no reason it would change now.

The rule updates usually come after the schedule release, but should come out before the end of the year. I almost guarantee one of the changes will be to simply update to "Driver’s Helmet. Undamaged, full-face Type SA helmet, Snell SA2015 or newer, mandatory."


Lots of options already out there, for a large range of prices. First link result for "SA2020 Helmet" search
https://store.windingroad.com/drivers/s … 20-helmets

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Helmet certification for 2021

TheEngineer wrote:

Assuming for a minute that the verbiage in the standard is written with the intent that some clock does start the first time you wear it, that is way too hard to enforce ...

Yes; they were 'urging' replacement, but it was not a requirement.

TheEngineer wrote:

... the SA2020 models do seem to be coming out now (something about they couldn't sell/ship them before October 1?)...

Yes - part of the proposed release schedule (SA2020 Cover)

TheEngineer wrote:

... Sucks to lose a helmet that never really got used, but that's the rule. My advice is get an SA2020, not an SA2015, you'll get an extra 5 years of it sitting in your closet before you sell it.

ftfy.
I'm thinking there'll be clearance sales of SA2015 helmets shortly. There might be a big difference in price.

14 (edited by Stan in Bham 2020-10-27 06:28 PM)

Re: Helmet certification for 2021

Might want to save the outdated helmet for refuel use. We have an old one (marked "refuel-only") that we keep with the fuel cart for new crew who don't have their own helmet yet, or for that time when somebody left theirs in the truck that just went to the parts store and the car is about to come in to the pit for gas.  XL size makes it universal fit for refueling.

Re: Helmet certification for 2021

That is a great idea

Former Captain
1996 Crown Vic. #55
Team Racing Cosmo

16 (edited by Lemon_Newton-Metre 2020-10-27 07:29 PM)

Re: Helmet certification for 2021

+1 for refueling - thanks Stan

17 (edited by TheEngineer 2020-10-28 06:20 AM)

Re: Helmet certification for 2021

FYI, HQ isn't too thrilled on the outdated refueling helmet idea. I had asked Nick directly about that at some point and the response was along the line of we don't like it because they don't' have a good way to mark a helmet as being "fueling only" and having out of date helmets floating around increases the chances that one makes it out on track. They've never made a formal rule that you can't, but they aren't thrilled about people doing it. Looking at my SA2010, it would be all too easy to get on track with that helmet next year with its 10years of tech stickers on it.

Just throwing that out there.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Helmet certification for 2021

TheEngineer wrote:

They've never made a formal rule that you can't, but they aren't thrilled about people doing it.

There is such a rule, so it's really more of a question of enforcement:

3.C.1...all wearing the same safety gear as a driver.

Can a driver wear an outdated helmet? No. Therefore neither can a fueler, as it isn't the same as what a driver must wear. As a matter of enforcement, however, I've never been at a race where someone is checking for a current helmet sticker anywhere except for getting on track.

TheEngineer wrote:

Looking at my SA2010, it would be all too easy to get on track with that helmet next year with its 10years of tech stickers on it.

That's one reason HQ has finally taken to regularly changing the design of the helmet sticker. An expanse of old stickers is meaningless without the current one in there somewhere.

1982 MG Metro 1300: IOE 2015 Pacific Northworst GP, Longest Distance 2010 Cd'L Box Wine Country Classic
1980 KV Mini 1: Worst of Show and Fright Pig Supremo 2009 Concours d'Lemons
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Re: Helmet certification for 2021

I stand corrected, thank you. I'm sure someone can try to weasel around that wording a little, but the intent I'm sure is there. The way Nick worded his replay I had read it as there was no formal rule, but it was a few years ago and emails always have the possibility of interpreting wording slightly different.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

20 (edited by MZAVARIN 2020-10-31 06:01 PM)

Re: Helmet certification for 2021

I just got an ad from one of the big online racing car parts, equipment, etc. for SA2020 helmet for $189

Looks like my old Zamp helmet....probably re badged....

MarioKart Driving School: 1987 Honda Prelude Si (Opus #28) 
Loudon, NH 2014 - Millville, NJ, Lightening 2019 (RIP)
New and improved: 1987 Honda Prelude Si (Opus #11) Pittsburgh, PA 2021 - ??
and finally won something, Class C Win: Loudon, NH 2022

Re: Helmet certification for 2021

Which one?

22 (edited by MZAVARIN 2020-11-02 09:37 AM)

Re: Helmet certification for 2021

Speedway

Actually they sell Zamp for $175, I just saw

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Zamp-RZ- … 18738.html

But I ordered their brand, since I did not see the Zamp

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway … 25828.html

Seems like the Zamp has holes on top for a hose to attach for ventillation
Speedway has holes on chin

quality probably similar...

but check availablity....their brand said will ship in February....so I suppose I could cancel my order and re order a Zamp if I wanted to go cheaper and save $14....I wonder who makes the helmets for Speedway..probably Zamp since the hinges on the sides of the visor look similar...

I kind of like the idea of the thing on top of the helmet where you could plug in a hose for venting...for those hot Thompson races....but I'm really at the limit of clearing the roll bar with the top of my helmet....so I wonder if they will not allow it, since
Rules....
--On all sides, all drivers’ helmeted heads must be at least two inches inside the area enclosed by the cage
--you need at least two inches of clearance between the top of the tallest guy’s helmet
and the area enclosed by the cage.

MarioKart Driving School: 1987 Honda Prelude Si (Opus #28) 
Loudon, NH 2014 - Millville, NJ, Lightening 2019 (RIP)
New and improved: 1987 Honda Prelude Si (Opus #11) Pittsburgh, PA 2021 - ??
and finally won something, Class C Win: Loudon, NH 2022

Re: Helmet certification for 2021

mharrell wrote:

That's one reason HQ has finally taken to regularly changing the design of the helmet sticker. An expanse of old stickers is meaningless without the current one in there somewhere.

Depending on the staff at a race, gear tech inspectors will specifically place the sticker in a way to distinguish it from previous race stickers.  People trying to slide by without gear tech at a 2nd or 3rd race for the year have been busted...

Apparently my name is really "Craigers".  Who knew?
We might be yellow, but at least we are slow
I'm a WINNER!

Re: Helmet certification for 2021

Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:

How strict are the inspectors about the condition of the helmets? And, date of first use?

No one can tell when a helmet was "first used". (i.e. when it was taken out of the warehouse and exposed to UV)

What I look for when I check any helmet (Lemons, autox, rallyx, carting, ...) no obvious signs of misuse (eg. it hasn't been washed in gasoline), no deep scratches, no cracks of any kind anywhere, no burns or melted spots, no discoloration, the interior padding is all there and firm but springy and isn't soaked with anything. HANS anchors have to be secure and correct for the HANS being used. (I've actually pulled someone from the car for using the wrong anchors.) And of course, look for the correct (not fake or transplanted) SA / FIA seal.

(Checking a HANS is a similar process, but there's also straps / webbing to check for any breaks or wear. [I only recall failing one.])

(In case anyone is wondering, the incorrect HANS was a post HANS with quick release helmet. That's a Hell No! The post strap ends greatly concentrate force to a very small contract area that will snap a quick release. Plus it requires a 90deg twist in the strap greatly reducing the rating of the strap.)

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Re: Helmet certification for 2021

TheEngineer wrote:

...the wording of "SA2010 helmets are legal throughout the 2020 season" is telling you that they are good for 2020, no longer.

Given that, I think the first part of 3.B.1 should be rewritten.

Current
3.B.1 Driver’s Helmet. Undamaged, full-face Type SA helmet, Snell SA2010 or newer, mandatory. SA2010 helmets are legal throughout the 2020 season. FIA 8860-2000 certification is also acceptable....

Proposed
3.B.1 Driver’s Helmet. Undamaged, full-face helmet, FIA 8860-2000 or Snell SA2015 or newer, mandatory.

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