1 (edited by ratroaster 2021-03-03 04:04 PM)

Topic: Am I dong this? Well...

Just bought a car for Lemons (yep, a 1993 Camaro...sorry I mean CAMERO - sans motor and trans, cluster, nearly all wiring and whatever else the previous drug addled owner decided to remove (really not much left), no I haven't seen the car in person, but I have a TITLE!  oh and by the way its RACY RED). 

I found this car on craigs and paid...wait for it....wait....wait some more...are you still waiting?

$260!?! 

Holy Carp a 1993 Camero for $260 you say?  Yep.  Just let me say this: drugs are bad, barbed wire fences aren't a good look for a car, and off-roading in a camero is not advised.  Wait, what?  "Well the frame may be bent" you say...I say perfect Lemons car!!  How bad could it REALLY be?  Got to be something I can sell off this car!!  I want negative car cost and lots of budget!

I'll be hauling this home soon and starting the long road of race prep. 

Next step will be MORE POWER!  Hmmm...maybe a way to compensate for a Camero being too cheaty...hmmm...let me thinks...oh wait - what's that in the back of the garage?  Oh, why yes, I believe it is a motor and a trans!  What kind of lumpy iron is that you ask?  Well I believe that's a 259 studebaker motor and a 3 speed transmission...you say it was running when pulled?  Why yes it was.  This sounds like a match made in heaven a Studebaker powered Camero...

Live in Northern Colorado.  Shooting for the Sept Colorado race and CA after.

Re: Am I dong this? Well...

Almost all Cameros are not cheaty...and they are marginally good to aweful in Lemons racing.  That said, some are amazing.

You have a lot to do to make a September race but it is totally doable...except maybe the people part.  Getting and keeping a team of idiots that can pay, will show up and help more than they break is the hardest (but eventually most rewarding) part of Lemons.  FYI, I have heard it all before...you got 4 buddies that are good to go, financially stable and have understanding wives/girlfiends/husbands/boyfriends and they are all totally committed...you are mistaken.  Want to find out for sure, make them all put up $1500 toward the build right now, only refundable if they replace themselves with a new sucker willing to put up $1500.  Then give them a 100 hour each schedule of stuff to do.

FYI, this coming from the guy is tasked with managing the team that runs the Chrysler flathead Camero, a dustbuster minivan and a '47 Plymouth with a supercharged 3800 in it.

OH, and welcome to the insanity..

Re: Am I dong this? Well...

LSS - Speaking of commitment, well that's exactly what just happened - my friend just decided to pull back from this insanity, so I'm in need of a team!  He was all in yesterday!

I have a car, garage and some tools (My Dad's a TV repairman and he has an awesome set of tools, I can FIX it!!), not sure on the studebaker power - that may be more hassle than I can take at this point.  May look for another power plant - there's a nice pick (your nose) and pull (up your underwear) in Greeley that's likely to have some GEMS.  I do know of a 1960 Studebaker Lark that might be available...may have to pull it out of the mud, weeds, trees and wasps, but hey you never DO know now, do YOU?  Maybe it's a very very rare R2 supercharged LARK and I'll DOMINATE Lemons (yeah, I know, NOT!)!

I like the $1500 commitment up front thingy.  That should kill the tire kicking!

So I suppose I'll post in Looking for a team?

Oh and by the way - this CAMERO, it's special.

Re: Am I dong this? Well...

let me know what questions you have we race a Gen III Firebird (same car) 305 5 speed, It is fast. Lots of go fast cheap parts available. only down side is the tank. 15.9 gallons. That + 1.5 hours a stint.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpZHzZYXhJQ&t=371s

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

5 (edited by ratroaster 2021-03-03 04:57 PM)

Re: Am I dong this? Well...

Mr.Yuck - thank you!  Great Video!

Hmmm...I could only wish to have that much fun!!!  This car is auto, but looking for something that will bolt in fairly easily to solve the time issues.  Also racking my roadrunner brain for a theme!!

Re: Am I dong this? Well...

So, I fully support putting that studebaker engine in the dang ole camero.  If you haven't already, look up the Colorado Lemons mafia on FB.  Most of the Colorado based teams are on there and many will probably be willing to help with terrible ideas.

Re: Am I dong this? Well...

ratroaster wrote:

Mr.Yuck - thank you!  Great Video!

Hmmm...I could only wish to have that much fun!!!  This car is auto, but looking for something that will bolt in fairly easily to solve the time issues.  Also racking my roadrunner brain for a theme!!


ours was an auto the 7004r will last if you keep it cool. Our theme is Tiredbird, because well it is. Try Mullet express, or All Mullet Racing...you get the drift. You could probably get a running 305 for free and T5 for not much more. The factory holes and such are there. I think there is one hole to cut.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Am I dong this? Well...

I just pinged an infamous Colorado racer known for the Grmupy Cat so you might have some advice/help/assistance with poor life choices coming your way.  Great guy, very helpful and Lemons successful.

Re: Am I dong this? Well...

Thank you!  I just requested to join the CLM!  Outstanding!

Maybe the FlyingMullets?  That could have dual meaning...

Re: Am I dong this? Well...

Hmmm...ford made an infamous 2.8...could be the Z2.8 flying mullet...

Re: Am I dong this? Well...

Every Studebaker that has raced in Lemons has won an award...generally the esteemed I.O.E....
(I say this as a pilot of the IOE-winning Avanti...) (But I don't want to brag toooo much....)
You bring a Stude-powered 'Mero to a race and you will be hailed as a hero.....

That being said,I also drive the 'Ugly Brown Camero" at West Coast races..
The 305 is enough to get us around the track in a hurry,but the fuel tank capacity only lets us go 1:45 stints....

40+x Loser.....You'd think I would learn......
5x I.O.E  Winner   1 Heroic Fix Winner   1 Org Choice Winner
2x  I Got Screwed Winner    2x Class C Winner
(Still a Class B driver in a Class A car)

Re: Am I dong this? Well...

Rat roaster??!?!?!  RAT ROASTER?!!!?!?!?!???!?!!!!!

Why you....

its all good man, more Camaros in Lemons is better and I love the idea you have!

Team Sucker Punch:Winner Org Choice award Were the Elite Meet to Cheat 2015
Chevy Camaro (Tiger striped #38)  (1989-2017 RIP old friend)
Chevy Corvette 1984......and still racing!

Re: Am I dong this? Well...

BigBird wrote:

Every Studebaker that has raced in Lemons has won an award...generally the esteemed I.O.E....
(I say this as a pilot of the IOE-winning Avanti...) (But I don't want to brag toooo much....)
You bring a Stude-powered 'Mero to a race and you will be hailed as a hero.....

That being said,I also drive the 'Ugly Brown Camero" at West Coast races..
The 305 is enough to get us around the track in a hurry,but the fuel tank capacity only lets us go 1:45 stints....

how are you guys getting 1:45? we're lucky if we get 1:30???

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Am I dong this? Well...

Mr.Yuck wrote:

let me know what questions you have we race a Gen III Firebird (same car) 305 5 speed, It is fast. Lots of go fast cheap parts available. only down side is the tank. 15.9 gallons. That + 1.5 hours a stint.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpZHzZYXhJQ&t=371s

So I'm looking at Roll Cages - so the original weight of the Camero was 3241 lbs. Is the fireturd race weight over 3000lbs?  I'm thinking not, but the Studebaker plant will be a boat anchor and may notch us up over the 3000k limit for 1 5/8" tubing.  I'm seeing kits for good prices on Jegs, but none show the 1 3/4" tubing as an option.  The ones I am seeing on line get spendy on the larger tubing.  Of course I'll have this installed professionally, but a kit makes things a lot quicker IMHO.  Any thoughts are appreciated.

I think I'm just gonna push with getting this car done mostly by myself - most of the Colorado Mafia guys are saying that having a full team here in CO is rare.  I'll get most of the major stuff put together as team owner, I guess.

I like the 305 idea as an option (easier to get mounted etc.) - I see those frequently.  Still thinking the Stude V8 is a nice way to go. 

So as far as wear items on the gen III chassis - what do I need to look for?  The car has about 191k on it.  It is a Z. 

Thank you in advance!

Re: Am I dong this? Well...

Always just go 1 3/4" DOM for all cages...there is no real benefit for Lemons to not do so and there are benefits to doing so.

Re: Am I dong this? Well...

ratroaster wrote:
Mr.Yuck wrote:

let me know what questions you have we race a Gen III Firebird (same car) 305 5 speed, It is fast. Lots of go fast cheap parts available. only down side is the tank. 15.9 gallons. That + 1.5 hours a stint.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpZHzZYXhJQ&t=371s

So I'm looking at Roll Cages - so the original weight of the Camero was 3241 lbs. Is the fireturd race weight over 3000lbs?  I'm thinking not, but the Studebaker plant will be a boat anchor and may notch us up over the 3000k limit for 1 5/8" tubing.  I'm seeing kits for good prices on Jegs, but none show the 1 3/4" tubing as an option.  The ones I am seeing on line get spendy on the larger tubing.  Of course I'll have this installed professionally, but a kit makes things a lot quicker IMHO.  Any thoughts are appreciated.

I think I'm just gonna push with getting this car done mostly by myself - most of the Colorado Mafia guys are saying that having a full team here in CO is rare.  I'll get most of the major stuff put together as team owner, I guess.

I like the 305 idea as an option (easier to get mounted etc.) - I see those frequently.  Still thinking the Stude V8 is a nice way to go. 

So as far as wear items on the gen III chassis - what do I need to look for?  The car has about 191k on it.  It is a Z. 

Thank you in advance!

we cut a lot of weight out of our car. The hood, deck lid, doors roof are skin. You should always use 1 3/4DOM. I'd replace every bushing. We rebuilt the entire front and rear suspension.  Get some GOOD shocks, remove the spring isolators, cut the rear springs at least an inch, fronts will be a tad trickier. We tried an 88 WS6 rear sway bar but it was too heavy, just kept the stock 84 T/A bar. You also want camber...we re-drilled the plate holes.  We race Champcar (Chump) so we have to be fast. We have done a ton of work to get the car fast and handle. We used a C6 disc set up front from bigbrakeupgrade.com. As for the Stud engine, that'd be cool but you need to remember when you break something...and you will can you go to any parts store and get it? In practice our Distrib shaft broke. Drove to Advanced and got another one. Back running w/in 1.5 hours. Don't skimp on brakes or tires. I have a set of 16x9 Trans Am wheels I'll make a deal on. These cars handle well when set-up right.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Am I dong this? Well...

OnkelUdo wrote:

Always just go 1 3/4" DOM for all cages...there is no real benefit for Lemons to not do so and there are benefits to doing so.

this is why you use 1 3/4" DOM, this is our 1st car...the one in the video. This happened at maybe 70mph. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid … amp;type=3

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Am I dong this? Well...

Mr.Yuck wrote:
BigBird wrote:

Every Studebaker that has raced in Lemons has won an award...generally the esteemed I.O.E....
(I say this as a pilot of the IOE-winning Avanti...) (But I don't want to brag toooo much....)
You bring a Stude-powered 'Mero to a race and you will be hailed as a hero.....

That being said,I also drive the 'Ugly Brown Camero" at West Coast races..
The 305 is enough to get us around the track in a hurry,but the fuel tank capacity only lets us go 1:45 stints....

how are you guys getting 1:45? we're lucky if we get 1:30???

We are a couple old,slow guys ....never really pushing it too hard,come in for a sandwich,go back out......whatever....
And that 1:45 means it's sputtering in the turns,running on fumes......

40+x Loser.....You'd think I would learn......
5x I.O.E  Winner   1 Heroic Fix Winner   1 Org Choice Winner
2x  I Got Screwed Winner    2x Class C Winner
(Still a Class B driver in a Class A car)

19 (edited by Stan in Bham 2021-03-04 07:28 PM)

Re: Am I dong this? Well...

Pretty sure a Studebaker powered Camero (or anything; or an anything-powered Studebaker) would generate hero status in the paddock.

As stated, if you run the 'baker engine, bring plenty of your own parts to the race.

+1 on the 1.75 DOM cage. If you crash-test the cage, you'll never think "man I could have gotten away with a lighter cage". It will be "it was worth every penny". And I'm speaking as a car owner who had a driver inadvertently test our cage Sunday afternoon at Atlanta 2019. The driver was fine with only mild bruising from seat frame, but it took us 2 1/2 hours to get the car on the trailer. 

Roll Cage Components comes highly recommended by a number of teams for their roll cage kits.

Re: Am I dong this? Well...

BigBird wrote:
Mr.Yuck wrote:
BigBird wrote:

Every Studebaker that has raced in Lemons has won an award...generally the esteemed I.O.E....
(I say this as a pilot of the IOE-winning Avanti...) (But I don't want to brag toooo much....)
You bring a Stude-powered 'Mero to a race and you will be hailed as a hero.....

That being said,I also drive the 'Ugly Brown Camero" at West Coast races..
The 305 is enough to get us around the track in a hurry,but the fuel tank capacity only lets us go 1:45 stints....

how are you guys getting 1:45? we're lucky if we get 1:30???

We are a couple old,slow guys ....never really pushing it too hard,come in for a sandwich,go back out......whatever....
And that 1:45 means it's sputtering in the turns,running on fumes......

Well we are all over 50, we push some, some can do it better than others...lol. we are thinking about a hydromat. Is you 305 stock? Ours has some go fast stuff.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Am I dong this? Well...

Mr.Yuck wrote:
BigBird wrote:
Mr.Yuck wrote:

how are you guys getting 1:45? we're lucky if we get 1:30???

We are a couple old,slow guys ....never really pushing it too hard,come in for a sandwich,go back out......whatever....
And that 1:45 means it's sputtering in the turns,running on fumes......

Well we are all over 50, we push some, some can do it better than others...lol. we are thinking about a hydromat. Is you 305 stock? Ours has some go fast stuff.

Yes,it is stock....autotragic transmission....
We're just out here burning dinosaurs,turning money into noise.
The car is a mid-pack class B,all day,every day.....

When it drives onto the trailer at the end of Sunday,it's a winning weekend..... big_smile

40+x Loser.....You'd think I would learn......
5x I.O.E  Winner   1 Heroic Fix Winner   1 Org Choice Winner
2x  I Got Screwed Winner    2x Class C Winner
(Still a Class B driver in a Class A car)

Re: Am I dong this? Well...

BigBird wrote:
Mr.Yuck wrote:
BigBird wrote:

We are a couple old,slow guys ....never really pushing it too hard,come in for a sandwich,go back out......whatever....
And that 1:45 means it's sputtering in the turns,running on fumes......

Well we are all over 50, we push some, some can do it better than others...lol. we are thinking about a hydromat. Is you 305 stock? Ours has some go fast stuff.

Yes,it is stock....autotragic transmission....
We're just out here burning dinosaurs,turning money into noise.
The car is a mid-pack class B,all day,every day.....

When it drives onto the trailer at the end of Sunday,it's a winning weekend..... big_smile

YOU GOT THAT RIGHT!

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Am I dong this? Well...

As the owner and lead mechanic of the Race Avanti I cast 11,780 votes for installing the Studebaker V-8 and manual transmission. After multiple races with the Avanti I can tell you what I should have done to the 289 V-8 prior to our first race.
Replace all the core plugs, replace the water pump, pull off the manual fuel pump and install electric, replace the generator with a one wire alternator. And if you have any money left after the cage install get a Petronics kit for the distributor. Then a tach with a shift light and set the shift point at 3800 rpm. You can always grab a 5.3 LS after everyone gets bored with the Studebaker. We are still however, running the 289 and resisting the call of the LS sirens.
And don't worry about exceeding the budget and getting laps for any work done to the 259. Nobody in B.S. will penalize you for bringing that car/engine combination to a Lemons race.

M45 Racing,
#45 '02 Subaru WRX,
#4  '63 Studebaker Avanti, IOE, The Ridge 2016
#19 '90 Thunderbird Super Coupe(retired) Organizers Choice Award, Sears 2015

24 (edited by ratroaster 2021-03-21 02:45 PM)

Re: Am I dong this? Well...

Our Hoooooptie has ARRIVED!!  I just picked up the car in Laird Colorado - yes that's a 6+ hour trip.  None of my LAME TEAM mates made it...ZZtop was my co pilot.  Yes I was up at 5:20, yes that's AM and in Laird by 9:00AM!!  Car loaded and on the road in 30 minutes!

My wife does not understand, but she's a kind soul and kinda sees that this might be fun for me...

We are leaning 289 Studebaker and thank you for the suggestions on the Stude Motor!!  I have a friend that has a friend that...well uh...collects Studebakers...there's ALWAYS fun to be had at his car yard.

Photo Link:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/PDr1qB2tyM4RwKZZ8

Check out that INTERIOR!!  It's amazing!!  Dare I say CHARP?

25 (edited by ratroaster 2021-04-23 10:15 PM)

Re: Am I dong this? Well...

Well...it's been a long road thus far.  Got amped , had team.  Bought car.  Team bailed, err 2x bailed, one said "maybe next year".  Put car back up for sale (I'm sure it's been seen on craig's)...then went to dinner with #2 who said "maybe next year" and talked through a plan.  I SOOOOOOOOO wanted to be ready for Sept in CO, but not likely.  However, after talking with #2 I think we have a plan.  Contract first, money second.  #2 has some potential team mates.  So this is where we are.  Car off the market and moving forward.  Can't think this is anything but NORMAL when it come to Lemons.  BTW - Team Name decided!!  It's rather good IMHO.  2022 Lemons!!  It's all I have at this point.