Topic: What do you do about non-contributing team mates?

Hey guys, pretty new team here (only two races under my belt); we love everything about this and plan on doing this for years to come. I feel very fortunate that the team I started is very strong: everybody has different strengths, we all work together really well, and get along great. Out of the team of 4, 3 of the members (including myself) are relatively reliable in terms of being at the meetings and getting together to work on the car/trailer. However, we are all having issues with one of the members being extremely unreliable: he'll frequently no call/no show to the meetings and I feel like we're constantly pulling his weight. For the days he does show up, he's always the guy who forgets to bring something and it's just getting frustrating. AFAIK, he enjoys working with the team, being around us, and racing... he's just an unreliable person. We've had serious talks with him on multiple occasions and he acknowledges the problem, but it's apparent this isn't a problem he's going to fix. Good news is when he does show up, he works hard and he's a great guy to work with. We all agree that it's not good for team morale, it's annoying, and it's unfair to us, but we also recognize he's a valuable member of the team (when he's present).

We are trying to form a long term/stable team so we've been discussing finding someone to replace him, but are we being unrealistic? Is this just how it goes, or should we stop putting up with this and look for a replacement?

Thank you!

Full Ass Racing
#455 Piñata Miata - 1990 Miata
#735 BMDollhÜr 7Turdy5i - 1990 735i

Re: What do you do about non-contributing team mates?

I maintain that car prep and team participation (and even race weekends) should not be (or feel like) a forced march. So, I try to go with the flow somewhat. That attitude serves us well and the team is productive.

Not everybody can contribute consistently due to distance, work, health, competing interests...heck, a variety of things. We just keep our heads down and keep trying to advance the cause. We often have just two guys working on a car. Some days we have 8 people working on two cars at different garages. Any help is welcome at any time. Can't make it? Then we hope you can make it the next time. It all works out in the end.

I admit to getting angry with a team mate who hadn't shown up or called. But I get over it pretty quickly. No point in harboring resentments. In the end we all have the same goal--have fun playing with cars.

--bb.

Re: What do you do about non-contributing team mates?

It is a constant battle with team mates who may or may not be reliable.
We have had screaming matches but they are few and far between.....Just remember that this is for fun.
If it becomes more of a fight than you are willing to endure then its time to cut ties.

Manny

Re: What do you do about non-contributing team mates?

75% of you regularly contribute?  I'd call that a win.

If it bothers you, maybe treat the fourth person like an arrive and drive.

Team whatever_racecar #745 Volvo wagon

Re: What do you do about non-contributing team mates?

rb92673 wrote:

If it bothers you, maybe treat the fourth person like an arrive and drive.

This is always an option. You can tell them they don't have to do the work/show up to meetings but that comes at a cost and loss of input into the build.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C x2 and IOE winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

6 (edited by duthehustle93 2021-05-17 01:53 PM)

Re: What do you do about non-contributing team mates?

I absolutely agree with everything you guys have said, our goals as a team are purely to have fun but we've started developing some animosity towards this fourth member and we're trying to figure out how to nip it in the butt. It sounds like this is pretty common so the solution is probably just to live with it and look forward. Our core team of three is pretty solid so I'm really thankful that we have that. At this point, we are keeping an eye out for someone reliable for our fourth spot, but certainly aren't holding our breath haha... and in the mean time we'll just roll with it. It sounds like we should be happy that we've got 3 reliable people, and a fourth that's willing to contribute to the costs. Thanks for all the input, it definitely helps as we figure out how all this works.

Full Ass Racing
#455 Piñata Miata - 1990 Miata
#735 BMDollhÜr 7Turdy5i - 1990 735i

Re: What do you do about non-contributing team mates?

chaase wrote:
rb92673 wrote:

If it bothers you, maybe treat the fourth person like an arrive and drive.

This is always an option. You can tell them they don't have to do the work/show up to meetings but that comes at a cost and loss of input into the build.

We tossed out this idea too, but we are pretty confident he would be out at any more costs above what his share is currently. It's probably worth mentioning, since he's at least aware that he's contributing the least.

Full Ass Racing
#455 Piñata Miata - 1990 Miata
#735 BMDollhÜr 7Turdy5i - 1990 735i

Re: What do you do about non-contributing team mates?

We treat all our team but me and the other co-owner as modified arrive and drives.  They show up when they can for build days or not.  They pay their fees and consumables cost.  The two of us are judge, jury and execution on what we build next or improve next.  If they do not like which car we are racing that race...don't pay and feel free to be crew or spectator.  Works well for us.

Re: What do you do about non-contributing team mates?

OnkelUdo wrote:

We treat all our team but me and the other co-owner as modified arrive and drives.  They show up when they can for build days or not.  They pay their fees and consumables cost.  The two of us are judge, jury and execution on what we build next or improve next.  If they do not like which car we are racing that race...don't pay and feel free to be crew or spectator.  Works well for us.

With this arrangement, do you split costs evenly among all members or do the guy(s) who aren't always there pitch in more?

Full Ass Racing
#455 Piñata Miata - 1990 Miata
#735 BMDollhÜr 7Turdy5i - 1990 735i

Re: What do you do about non-contributing team mates?

some guys work more, the others pay more.   When i ran a team,  my main mechanic did 90% of the work, and paid $0 for anything.  Other guys that did less work paid more.  The other guys paid admission, upgrades and gas and consumables.  We all put in the same amount.  Some paid with time.  Others paid with the wallet.  If he will not put in the time, he has to pay a higher price.  Dont make it punishment.   Make it fair.

Former Captain
1996 Crown Vic. #55
Team Racing Cosmo

Re: What do you do about non-contributing team mates?

Doesn’t really help the OP, just sharing:

I didn’t want to have to deal with team conflict issues or worry about shared ownership so I basically built the whole car and I share use of the completed project with friends.  They sometimes help, usually not. On race weekends we do an even split of consumable cost and then another 100 or so each to help pay for new improvements/repairs like fire suppression, radio parts, new trans or diff or whatever.  I’m happy to have a team at all, but also happy to not have to take a vote every step of the way. If there’s a problem with a participant, they don’t get an invite next time. I like this arrangement. It’s more costly to me, but I have fun fabbing along the way and I like sharing my creation with others.

Tri-Lamb Motorsports ‘87 528e

Re: What do you do about non-contributing team mates?

duthehustle93 wrote:
OnkelUdo wrote:

We treat all our team but me and the other co-owner as modified arrive and drives.  They show up when they can for build days or not.  They pay their fees and consumables cost.  The two of us are judge, jury and execution on what we build next or improve next.  If they do not like which car we are racing that race...don't pay and feel free to be crew or spectator.  Works well for us.

With this arrangement, do you split costs evenly among all members or do the guy(s) who aren't always there pitch in more?

We charge everyone the same.

Our team is likely different from one coming up from the beginning because we have been at this since like 2012.  We build a new IoE'ish car every year or two but also have a "fast" car.  Because we are always building, it is hard to seperate those that come to build days because they love the weird and wacky fab from those that want to make sure the car we are taking to the track that month is ready.

Re: What do you do about non-contributing team mates?

We are a brand new team with our first race coming up, so keep that in mind on whether my advice is useful or not.  It's myself and another guy as Co-Owners, I provided the car and the garage space, he bought the cage and some other expensive parts, and we split everything else on the build 50/50.  We decided we wanted it to be our car and our other 2-3 teammates are always invited to come over on workdays and when they do it's a huge help (one is an awesome mechanic.....he makes Chryslers run!).   

Anyway, we told them that when we do a race they're certainly invited and just need to buy their gear and however many we have we'll split the entry fee that many ways.  If just my Co-Owner and I fine, we can handle and expect to pay it, but more fun when those others guys come and no pressure if they can't make it.   

We've found that the other guys head over to the shop on workdays and often text with things like "hey I know we needed more wire and ____ so I'll pick some up on my way"

Anyway, that's our plan to be able to do racing and at the end of season have the same number of original friends as we did when we started - and hopefully some new ones from the paddock :-)

2021 Gingerman-I:  IOE (Strickland Propane)
2021 Gingerman-II:  20 seconds of footage on the wrap-up!
95 Chevy S-10

Re: What do you do about non-contributing team mates?

You have "meetings"?

Cheaters.

COM ( Chief Operating Moron ) of Burnt Rubber Soul Racing
Current fleet: 95 Ford Probe, 81 Mazda 626.  Past: 81 Imperial
Facebook page:  https://www.facebook.com/burntrubbersoulracing

Re: What do you do about non-contributing team mates?

Another team that subscribes to Less or no work = pay more


Our single out of country team member pays the entire entry, the other 2 of us build and split the remaining expenses, the 3rd guy has very little input unless he specifically wants to pay for something like a lower mile engine or matching rims.

Homestead Chump 5th-Sebring 6th-PBIR Lemons 9th - Charlotte Chump  CrashnBurn 9th
Sebring 6th again -NOLA Chump 1st -PBIR Chump Trans Fail 16th
Daytona 11th - Sebring 6th - Atlanta Motor Speedway 2nd - Road Atlanta Trans Fail 61st-Road Atlanta 5th
Daytona 13th - Charlotte 9th - Sebring 2nd-Charlotte 25th broken brakes - Road Atlanta 14 10th-Daytona 14  58th- Humid TT 19th Judges' Choice!

Re: What do you do about non-contributing team mates?

everyone's team dynamic is different, hard to apply one approach to another team universally.

Decide if his inconsistency is really affecting anything. If he's a benefit when he does show up, maybe stop giving him things to be responsible to bring, and just count it as a bonus when he does show. That way you don't get hosed by things not showing up, but it's better when he does. Up to you if something that that works for your team dynamic.



My original team was super one sided. I did 90% of the work on the car, with help from my dad when it worked for him to drive up and help, and the other team members made it to like 1 work day a year, otherwise just showing up on race weekend, often not until Saturday morning. We split race fees evenly, but I ended up covering most of the upkeep costs. This was unsustainable. Finally, when the Daytona was near end of life and we were talking about a new car the other team members suddenly had a problem with how I ran things and demanded all these sweeping changes to how the team was run, even though they had refused to be more involved previously. So I stopped racing with them, because I'm in this to have fun, not stress myself out with people who are no longer enjoyable to be around.

Now the team is all immediate family, and our approach is much more laid back. Work days are attended by those that can make it that day and no one sweats those that miss one. Money is fluid, those that can afford to pay cover costs, others contribute as they can. None of it is held against the others because this is just a fun family hobby and not something to be taken that seriously. I'd rather pay more of the costs myself if it means a fun weekend with my Dad and siblings.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

17

Re: What do you do about non-contributing team mates?

Sounds like you have it figured out.  Keep on keeping on with tempered expectations for the fourth member of the team.  I imagine the most difficult part will be truly being ok with the dynamic.  No doubt this is doable but it may be tough to maintain the mindset (it would be hard for me). 

I was in a band for several years that I eventually left when I came to the realization that I was no longer having much fun.  What began as everyone contributing where they could morphed into me bugging everyone to participate on just about every level - practice, writing, recording, booking shows, etc.  It started small and then snowballed.  The rest of the band resented that it became my pet project and I saw me taking more control as the only way to keep things together.  Once I left the band soon dissolved without an individual to drive things on.  Note that I consider this to be my fault. 

Our Lemons team is strictly arrive and drive.  My wife and I pay for everything and have zero expectations of anyone helping out.  We eat all development and maintenance costs.  The fee for the drivers is calc'd based on the event costs with a tiny bit extra to cover "other".  This is expensive for my wife and I but we don't mind.  I know that the moment I set expectations beyond this I will find some reason to be disappointed. 

In my eyes you're a better person to keep a more equitable split going.  Truly, good on you.

Re: What do you do about non-contributing team mates?

Thank you all for your input, really helps us decide what to do going forward and more importantly makes me a little bit less frustrated with our fourth member. It sounds like it's a necessary evil of Lemons racing and the best thing to do is restructure so that the core team of 3 gets to make the decisions on the direction of the team, and we have a fourth that is along for the ride and a potentially open slot if we find someone who could make us a complete dream team.

Full Ass Racing
#455 Piñata Miata - 1990 Miata
#735 BMDollhÜr 7Turdy5i - 1990 735i