The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Newcomers → the $500 rule
So how can they tell if a car is more than 500 dollars. Like lets say i bought a $500 car, do I need to provide evidence of the price? Also, if i were to take this $500 car and rebuild the engine and other components, but no performance mods, would that effect the value of the car? Just trying to figure out where to go with this info.
Before getting into the various details, what exactly is the car in question?
The one piece of advice I would like to offer is to attend a race and get a look at it up close. It will go a long way to communicating the spirit of the event and should provide a lot of info regarding the $500 car value concept.
The short version is don't sweat the $500 budget too much. Sweat making the car safe and don't drive like asshats.
So how can they tell if a car is more than 500 dollars. Like lets say i bought a $500 car, do I need to provide evidence of the price? Also, if i were to take this $500 car and rebuild the engine and other components, but no performance mods, would that effect the value of the car? Just trying to figure out where to go with this info.
we bought our 1st Lemons car for $750, 84 L69 Trans Am. I sold about $1700 in parts off the car brining it down to $0. That should be your goal, to start with $0. Now if you show up with some obscure car, tech won't bat an eye as long as it is safe and not all cheated up.
Before getting into the various details, what exactly is the car in question?
We're thinking about going with a very early 2000s celica. Price for it is 1300 and we think after getting rid of the interior and other unnecessary parts, we can get it down pretty low. I'm just wondering if we rebuild the motor, will that put us like -600 laps or so? I just dont know how they determine of you put more than 500 dollars into a build. I dont want to just go there and ride around, I would like to do some good old racing
cheseroo wrote:Before getting into the various details, what exactly is the car in question?
We're thinking about going with a very early 2000s celica. Price for it is 1300 and we think after getting rid of the interior and other unnecessary parts, we can get it down pretty low. I'm just wondering if we rebuild the motor, will that put us like -600 laps or so? I just dont know how they determine of you put more than 500 dollars into a build. I dont want to just go there and ride around, I would like to do some good old racing
whatever you sell off the car comes off the $1300. So sell everything you don't need, such as the interior, AC, exhaust, wheels...Rebuilding the motor doesn't count against the cost of the car. Adding a SBC would. Although if you showed up w/ a V8 Powered Celica, you might get a free pass.
You should be fine. You won't get 600 laps. Assuming you don't throw aftermarket suspension in there I would guess a GT is Class B and a GTS Class A, both with zero laps. It's kind of a low and small car so I'd be more concerned about cage install and head spacing from cage. Make sure you/your cage builder reads the How not to Fail Tech and better yet, reach out to head of tech John Pagel beforehand to discuss the cage install.
ccooke wrote:cheseroo wrote:Before getting into the various details, what exactly is the car in question?
We're thinking about going with a very early 2000s celica. Price for it is 1300 and we think after getting rid of the interior and other unnecessary parts, we can get it down pretty low. I'm just wondering if we rebuild the motor, will that put us like -600 laps or so? I just dont know how they determine of you put more than 500 dollars into a build. I dont want to just go there and ride around, I would like to do some good old racing
whatever you sell off the car comes off the $1300. So sell everything you don't need, such as the interior, AC, exhaust, wheels...Rebuilding the motor doesn't count against the cost of the car. Adding a SBC would. Although if you showed up w/ a V8 Powered Celica, you might get a free pass.
ok, so how do i prove to the tech inspectors at entry that we sold all that stuff and got the price down to lets say $600? Do i show some proof of selling those parts?
ok, so how do i prove to the tech inspectors at entry that we sold all that stuff and got the price down to lets say $600? Do i show some proof of selling those parts?
I GUARANTEE that if you do a minimum of a 90second interpretative dance routine to some sappy music showing your multiple transactions to sell parts and collect money for them that you will get absolutely zero penalty laps.
If I'm proven wrong and there's video evidence of your 90 second effort, I'll pay your entry fee to your next race.
A) Tech does not care what you spent. They care you built a safe car with all the items on the tech sheet coverd from the cage to tidying up the wires.
B) BS inspection cares how well you met the spirit of the $500 rule and Lemons in general. This includes everything from the car you chose, the effort you put into improving non-reliabilty and safety iems, the level of awfulness the platform you chose is, and assessing the the chance your team are a bunch of jerks that will be cloging up the penalty box.
C) You should care about being in the spirit of the $500 but not focus in it too much. You are not going to win the first time out. Enjoying the whole Lemons experience and your time on track is more important.
D) Don't rebuild your motor, bring a spare. Saturday night engine swaps are rite of passage. If you want, practice at home by swapping your spare into the car ahead of time so you can run it on test and tune day...then you have a "known good spare" that came out of the car. Though I am joking on the last part...its kind of a genius idea.
Mr.Yuck wrote:ccooke wrote:We're thinking about going with a very early 2000s celica. Price for it is 1300 and we think after getting rid of the interior and other unnecessary parts, we can get it down pretty low. I'm just wondering if we rebuild the motor, will that put us like -600 laps or so? I just dont know how they determine of you put more than 500 dollars into a build. I dont want to just go there and ride around, I would like to do some good old racing
whatever you sell off the car comes off the $1300. So sell everything you don't need, such as the interior, AC, exhaust, wheels...Rebuilding the motor doesn't count against the cost of the car. Adding a SBC would. Although if you showed up w/ a V8 Powered Celica, you might get a free pass.
ok, so how do i prove to the tech inspectors at entry that we sold all that stuff and got the price down to lets say $600? Do i show some proof of selling those parts?
we had to show them c-list ads and pictures of money/pats changing hands. As I recall the stuff I sent to Denmark, I just showed the postal receipt and emails.
A) Tech does not care what you spent. They care you built a safe car with all the items on the tech sheet covered from the cage to tidying up the wires.
B) BS inspection cares how well you met the spirit of the $500 rule and Lemons in general. This includes everything from the car you chose, the effort you put into improving non-reliability and safety items, the level of awfulness the platform you chose is, and assessing the the chance your team are a bunch of jerks that will be clogging up the penalty box.
C) You should care about being in the spirit of the $500 but not focus in it too much. You are not going to win the first time out. Enjoying the whole Lemons experience and your time on track is more important.
I think this is the best summation, especially the bold. Just focus on safety, reliability and then turning laps. If you go in knowing mid- to bottom of the pack--and hopefully finishing--is a win, then it'll make the weekend as a whole that much more fun for you. A fortune cookie taught me--but Lemons has reinforced--expectation is the mother of frustration.
D) Don't rebuild your motor, bring a spare. Saturday night engine swaps are rite of passage. If you want, practice at home by swapping your spare into the car ahead of time so you can run it on test and tune day...then you have a "known good spare" that came out of the car. Though I am joking on the last part...its kind of a genius idea.
You spelled Friday wrong.
Wait...you were joking?
If you have the time and resources rebuild the motor before you hit the track. You'll be surprised how butt ass tired you are going to be after racing all day, especially if it is hot. On a side note out 160k 305 lasted about 6 weekends and some serious test runs before it spun a bearing. The only thing we did to that motor was new t-chain, cam & lifters. The new 305 got a garage rebuild.
Rebuilding the motor doesn't count against the cost of the car.
This is incorrect unless things have changed radically in the last few years.
Like many things on the accounting side of the rules, it seems to depend on the car/team. We rebuilt the daytona motor all the damn time and not once got asked about it. But that was a C-class IOE car. I can't see getting sweated on a basic motor refresh with stock parts these days. If you're in there adding performance parts, sure, but just OEM bearings and gaskets to try and maximize your chances of running all weekend, unlikely you'll be penalized much. We put a couple hundred dollars into the saab motor to do the timing chain, remove the balance shafts, replace some worn out things, etc. We were up front about it, and no penalties at BS because there is zero chance of us winning our class or the race overall.
But yes, technically parts put into the motor count towards the budget. Keep a basic list of costs and parts sold off and have it ready if you're asked for it. Worst case is you get penalty laps and still go racing and then race #2 you can prove that you're not a race win contender and get a more lenient BS assessment.
Mr.Yuck wrote:Rebuilding the motor doesn't count against the cost of the car.
This is incorrect unless things have changed radically in the last few years.
High speed parts cost, cam, headers, intake, but replacing the timing chain or belt, bearings... along with all of your hoses doesn't or shouldn't. Unless you want oil and water all over the track.
hoverducky wrote:Mr.Yuck wrote:Rebuilding the motor doesn't count against the cost of the car.
This is incorrect unless things have changed radically in the last few years.
High speed parts cost, cam, headers, intake, but replacing the timing chain or belt, bearings... along with all of your hoses doesn't or shouldn't. Unless you want oil and water all over the track.
maybe read the rules again? Because they specifically spell out what is exempt and what isn't. Bearings, hoses, timing chains are all technically not exempt. It's true that most of the time you won't get in trouble for replacing them for reliability reasons, but per the rules they are supposed to count towards your budget. Whether or not BS cares about you replacing basic parts like that will depend on your team and car and how blatantly you're cheating.
Rules are spelled out, enforcement is arbitrary. Just gave a good attitude, bring receipts and take your laps. Sounds bad, but it’s actually a pretty good system. Have fun.
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