Topic: Mid-engined Madness

If you are looking for the ultimate powerplant for your mid-engined monstrosity, look no further.  Last Fall, we yanked the entire drivetrain (3.0L V6 and 5sp manual transmission) from a rusted-out 1992 Alfa Romeo 164S…. with plans to build something really stupid (again) for Lemons.  This is the same set-up we used for the Splatos, which if you recall, won OVERALL at Road America years ago.  We were looking at other platforms (besides Fiat X1/9) for this go-around, and the VW GTi Mk4 seemed to make the short list for a German-Italian Axis of Evil mash-up.  Alas, we got super busy doing other things, including “real” race car fabrication and several huge restoration jobs, so it doesn’t look like we’ll ever get to this in our remaining lifetimes. 

Here's a link to a gallery of pics of the engine/trans, as well as the donor car we harvested it from. (https://photos.app.goo.gl/aSSmxyzEh2PCzVuTA)  It is COMPLETE from hub-to-hub and everything in between, including the wiring harness, black box and springs/struts.  I’m even going to throw a rare rust-free subframe (w/engine cradle and suspension mounts) and spare cast aluminum oil pan into the package.  $350 for the whole deal, and I can help you load.  Condition unknown, but mileage was 120K and seller told me it ran and shifted great, but became unsafe to drive when the unibody framework disintegrated from rust.  We had planned to refresh the engine (I mean, it is almost 30 years old!), but never got around to it.  If you need help with that, I know a guy. smile

For those of you not familiar with the 164S engine, here’s a quick video I shot when we were building the Splatos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfrbfFVAP3g) and some video shot by another team chasing the Splatos at Gingerman (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRIibiGa9LE).  The glorious aria emanating from the tailpipe has been known to make women swoon and grown men weep.  Seriously, nothing will give you a chubbie like an Alfa V6 at full song.

Located in Batavia, IL 60510 (about an hour west of Chicago).  Shoot me an e-mail (DBesic at aol dot com) because I don’t always check the Forums.

Darren

Bad Mojo Racing
1971 Opel GT "Breadvan"
2012 - April Gingerman (Ercole Spada Award) and October AutoBahn (19th in Class B, 52nd OA )
2013 - April Gingerman (8th in Class B, 25th OA) and June AutoBahn (WINNER Class B, 9th OA)

Re: Mid-engined Madness

C'mon, now.... you know you NEED this in your life.  (And I seriously want it out of my crowded little shop where it is occupying valuable space.)

If you need a little push over the fence to decide, I can drop the price a bit and make you a sweet deal on a set of hand-formed box-flares on your whip.

Gimme a holler.

Darren

Bad Mojo Racing
1971 Opel GT "Breadvan"
2012 - April Gingerman (Ercole Spada Award) and October AutoBahn (19th in Class B, 52nd OA )
2013 - April Gingerman (8th in Class B, 25th OA) and June AutoBahn (WINNER Class B, 9th OA)

Re: Mid-engined Madness

If it was 6 years ago I would be in my car right now driving to grab this, because I have always wanted one of those motors, and it would be a super fun thing to put in the E36.


Alas, life changes, and this has been a very expensive year already, and I'm not sure my wife would smile on me bringing another motor home when the garage is still only half finished.

Hope it ends up with someone. If you get to the point where no one takes it and it HAS to leave your garage, email me. Maybe I'll be in the mood to make a bad decision.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Turbo Dodge Powered E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Mid-engined Madness

If anyone needs it transported, I am passing through that way next week, and can deliver it anywhere between Oshkosh, WI and Birmingham, AL for beer, dinner, and/or the difference in cost of gas between taking my pickup vs. the car.

Re: Mid-engined Madness

Hey Stan:

I am trying to work a deal to get this thing to CA without breaking the bank. Wondering if you were to drag it home if I could pick it up at your house prior to the Barber Race. I would drive to 'Bama, rather than fly, and tow my utility trailer behind my RV. Def buy you a steak and some beer and some gas. I'll save air fare and rental car and hotels but get 18mpg in the RV on the trip.

Or...on an upcoming XC trip, I could pick it up (in September) and rent a trailer to drag it home behind my RV. The trailer is $300 one-way to CA. That may be the cheap way to go since I'll already be driving through the area.

--Bill

Re: Mid-engined Madness

@billy bee and @Stan in Bham

Let me know if you guys get the logistics worked out.  I'm happy to accommodate any way I can.  Obviously, I'd like to sell this drivetrain locally, and help the team with the build, but I would be equally happy to see this travel cross-country, knowing its going to a good home.

Darren

Bad Mojo Racing
1971 Opel GT "Breadvan"
2012 - April Gingerman (Ercole Spada Award) and October AutoBahn (19th in Class B, 52nd OA )
2013 - April Gingerman (8th in Class B, 25th OA) and June AutoBahn (WINNER Class B, 9th OA)

Re: Mid-engined Madness

I emailed Billy Bee this morning.  I'll be happy to pick it up and store it until he can pick it up from me, and may even have a trailer or hitch-hauler that he can borrow to haul it home.  He and I had already been loosely discussing opposite-coast seat swaps at future races so he could run at Atlanta or Barber and I can try a west-coast race without either of us having to drag cars and tools clear across the country.  Didn't know he was interested in the Alfa motor until I saw his email this morning.

I admit that I was tempted to try a Alfa-powered Beetle, but common sense won out when considering my free time available to spend on ill-advised monstrosities. 

I'll PM a phone number so we can arrange a link-up.  I'd like to pick it up on my way home from Oshkosh on Sunday morning, August 1st, but can pick it up on the way north on July 26th if August 1st won't work.

Can you provide rough dimensions? I'd prefer to bring my Suburban if they'll fit in the back, but will bring the pickup if they won't.

Stan

Re: Mid-engined Madness

Most guys are gonna worry about telling their wives. Not me. I'm gonna have to figure out how to break this to the team. "Guess what, guys; we're building an Alfa-powered, mid-engined ____________."

(The options right now are: A: Tiburon; and, B: Passat wagon; although I would not mind trying to cram this thing under the hood of the E30 or E24 we have laying around.)

Thanks, guys. I'll try and make you both proud.

--bb

9 (edited by TheEngineer 2021-07-22 06:16 AM)

Re: Mid-engined Madness

billy bee wrote:

Most guys are gonna worry about telling their wives. Not me.

My wife is fantastic. If I said "hey I'm off to pickup an alfa engine, be back in 2 days", she'd look at me funny, sigh, and then just say ok. But I know she'd be thinking about the fact that I already have like 4 different engines sitting around in the garage waiting for the day I have time to work on projects, and the fact that I'm only about 1/3 done getting the garage finished and ready to work in, or the thousand other projects I've brought home and not finished, or the DAMN E36 that's been sitting in our driveway since 3 weeks after we started dating and made no damn progress. It's not about being afraid of her, it's more respecting that her criticisms are probably true. I jokingly asked if I could place a bid on a used CNC machine at a local auction the other day, her response was "that sounds dumb, but whatever makes you happy." She's right, it would have been financially dumb, but I would have been happy.



Share the build of whatever you put this in, will be fun to see another alfa V6 project come to life and live vicariously through it.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Turbo Dodge Powered E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Mid-engined Madness

TheEngineer wrote:
billy bee wrote:

Most guys are gonna worry about telling their wives. Not me.

My wife is fantastic. ...

I jokingly asked if I could place a bid on a used CNC machine at a local auction the other day, her response was "that sounds dumb, but whatever makes you happy." She's right, it would have been financially dumb, but I would have been happy.

Mine is too. Super thankful for an accommodating spouse.

--bb

Re: Mid-engined Madness

billy bee wrote:
TheEngineer wrote:
billy bee wrote:

Most guys are gonna worry about telling their wives. Not me.

My wife is fantastic. ...

I jokingly asked if I could place a bid on a used CNC machine at a local auction the other day, her response was "that sounds dumb, but whatever makes you happy." She's right, it would have been financially dumb, but I would have been happy.

Mine is too. Super thankful for an accommodating spouse.

Same here.  The old "it's easier to ask for forgiveness, than beg for permission" worked exactly ONCE in our marriage, when a beat-up 1957 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider magically appeared in the 2nd stall of our garage one day, a few months after we were married.  We came to an understanding after that.... smile  Its been full disclosure up front ever since then and that was 35 years ago (and we're still happily married).  Most of the time, she is the voice of reason and talks me down from the ledge, but the rest of the time I get the eyeroll and "whatever makes you happy".

Stan sent me his contact info for pick-up arrangements next week so looks like we'll be able make this happen!

Darren

Bad Mojo Racing
1971 Opel GT "Breadvan"
2012 - April Gingerman (Ercole Spada Award) and October AutoBahn (19th in Class B, 52nd OA )
2013 - April Gingerman (8th in Class B, 25th OA) and June AutoBahn (WINNER Class B, 9th OA)

Re: Mid-engined Madness

Setting aside the engine for a moment, I see three ^ who are already champions in the most important event I know.

Re: Mid-engined Madness

Picking up on the understanding wives theme: one of my team mates bought a new house last year (with a 1500 sq-ft shop). Before his wife arrived at the house on move-in day, he had an E39 dropped off in the driveway from a tow yard. She shows up with the moving truck wondering, "What is this car doing here?" Didn't phase her. My team mates take on her and marriage, "I got one of the good ones."

I am ready to pay for the engine, Darren. Sent you an email this morning. Talk soon.

--bb

Re: Mid-engined Madness

billy bee wrote:

Picking up on the understanding wives theme: one of my team mates bought a new house last year (with a 1500 sq-ft shop). Before his wife arrived at the house on move-in day, he had an E39 dropped off in the driveway from a tow yard. She shows up with the moving truck wondering, "What is this car doing here?" Didn't phase her. My team mates take on her and marriage, "I got one of the good ones."

I think my wife would just assume that was going to happen if we ever bought a house with a large shop included.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleship
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

Re: Mid-engined Madness

SOLD!

Bad Mojo Racing
1971 Opel GT "Breadvan"
2012 - April Gingerman (Ercole Spada Award) and October AutoBahn (19th in Class B, 52nd OA )
2013 - April Gingerman (8th in Class B, 25th OA) and June AutoBahn (WINNER Class B, 9th OA)

Re: Mid-engined Madness

Can't wait to see what it lands in.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Turbo Dodge Powered E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

17 (edited by Stan in Bham 2021-07-23 10:22 PM)

Re: Mid-engined Madness

Deleted -double posted.

Re: Mid-engined Madness

After we watched a Lemons race at Barber a few years ago, I told my wife that I really wanted to buy a car and start racing Lemons.

Without batting an eye, she replied "Okay, as long as I get to drive, too."


Oh, and when I told her we were taking the truck to Oshkosh to pick up an engine & transmission on the way, she just raised an eyebrow but didn't roll her eyes. She did seem slightly relieved when I said it wasn't for us, though.