Re: Champcar in Lemons? Lemons cars seem to be just as fast these days!

cheseroo wrote:

Re-reading that.  Geezo, am I a windbag or what?

It's really more the lack of white space. Paragraphs are your friends.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Champcar in Lemons? Lemons cars seem to be just as fast these days!

cheseroo wrote:

Re-reading that.  Geezo, am I a windbag or what?

Perhaps it's lengthy for a forum post, but it's not thaaat long. I personally thought it was helpful.

#22 Gas Relief Team Slowtus Ford Focus

Re: Champcar in Lemons? Lemons cars seem to be just as fast these days!

Mr.Yuck wrote:
jriley9922 wrote:

I jumped in with a team for Lemons at PIttRace this spring...   expecting to be what Lemons always is perceived to be... fun/goofy/interesting slow cars... and then i was shocked to see a bunch of cars that are not even REMOTELY $500 cars.

Looking to build a car to run Champ and Lemons... as combined that allows for like 5 or 6 local-ish race weekends per year.
Mid-pack Champ, and front of Lemons was the concept in my head... at least before.

After having done both, doing both may be a pipe dream.  The type of car/pace I thought would compete in Champ is actually way too slow these days and would be mid-pack in Lemons as well.

I'm so confused at what to start buying/building...  how can a Lemons car go 2:03 at Pittrace?  And that was on track with 50-90 other cars (pending if early saturday or late sunday)... so couldn't possibly be perfectly clean lap... so that car is a 2:00 flat car... which is like C7 grand sport corvette lap times.  What the what?!?!

I've been through the rulebook, and forum posts... and it seems these cars that have been doing it for years just keep getting faster and Lemons is okay with them continuing to 'develop' the car with new bits?

a VR6 jetta with aftermarket coilovers, swaybars, aftermarket LSD, audi TT brakes, aero... how do you do that for $500 honestly?  You can't even get a running VR6 engine for $500.

I get you can sell stock parts... but they aren't worth much.  Is it just that this $500 rule is more lax now? As long as you don't show up with a caged M3 or Corvette... and it's just some normal street car turned into a race car... you'd be okay?

we have done both for years. There is ZERO way to compete in Champ with a legit Lemons car. The points structure has been reduced to the point that everything is fast. At our last outing (before the car got wrecked) we were one of the fastest Lemons cars on the track...at Champ maybe mid-pack. We are still trying to do both with the new build but it will require swaping some parts off before the Lemons race.

It depends on the region and what class you are in, we managed to take class B at indy simply by making the 2 hour stints and not getting crashed (On Sunday, Saturday was another story and why I won't go back). We also learnt that class wins are a long running joke and that was kinda lame to find out after getting the smallest trophy ever and being told not to waste our time getting the car ready for post race tech inspection as no-one cares.

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
24x Loser with the Celica. 16x loser in other fine machines
Overall winner Gingerman 2019

Re: Champcar in Lemons? Lemons cars seem to be just as fast these days!

Brett85p wrote:
Mr.Yuck wrote:
jriley9922 wrote:

I jumped in with a team for Lemons at PIttRace this spring...   expecting to be what Lemons always is perceived to be... fun/goofy/interesting slow cars... and then i was shocked to see a bunch of cars that are not even REMOTELY $500 cars.

Looking to build a car to run Champ and Lemons... as combined that allows for like 5 or 6 local-ish race weekends per year.
Mid-pack Champ, and front of Lemons was the concept in my head... at least before.

After having done both, doing both may be a pipe dream.  The type of car/pace I thought would compete in Champ is actually way too slow these days and would be mid-pack in Lemons as well.

I'm so confused at what to start buying/building...  how can a Lemons car go 2:03 at Pittrace?  And that was on track with 50-90 other cars (pending if early saturday or late sunday)... so couldn't possibly be perfectly clean lap... so that car is a 2:00 flat car... which is like C7 grand sport corvette lap times.  What the what?!?!

I've been through the rulebook, and forum posts... and it seems these cars that have been doing it for years just keep getting faster and Lemons is okay with them continuing to 'develop' the car with new bits?

a VR6 jetta with aftermarket coilovers, swaybars, aftermarket LSD, audi TT brakes, aero... how do you do that for $500 honestly?  You can't even get a running VR6 engine for $500.

I get you can sell stock parts... but they aren't worth much.  Is it just that this $500 rule is more lax now? As long as you don't show up with a caged M3 or Corvette... and it's just some normal street car turned into a race car... you'd be okay?

we have done both for years. There is ZERO way to compete in Champ with a legit Lemons car. The points structure has been reduced to the point that everything is fast. At our last outing (before the car got wrecked) we were one of the fastest Lemons cars on the track...at Champ maybe mid-pack. We are still trying to do both with the new build but it will require swaping some parts off before the Lemons race.

It depends on the region and what class you are in, we managed to take class B at indy simply by making the 2 hour stints and not getting crashed (On Sunday, Saturday was another story and why I won't go back). We also learnt that class wins are a long running joke and that was kinda lame to find out after getting the smallest trophy ever and being told not to waste our time getting the car ready for post race tech inspection as no-one cares.

People are much more aggressive in Champ, They all want to win over-all.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Champcar in Lemons? Lemons cars seem to be just as fast these days!

Mr.Yuck wrote:

People are much more aggressive in Champ, They all want to win over-all.

Understatement of the year!

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

31

Re: Champcar in Lemons? Lemons cars seem to be just as fast these days!

a few things you need to understand
   
     $500 car was a tag line 15 yrs ago, now its a joke that hasn't been adjusted for inflation
     
       those that try the hardest to convince you that they really are 500 cars, or close to 500 dollar cars are probably the ones that don't have the $500 cars and have the most to loose if Lemons ever went back to what it originally was envisioned as
   
      the promotors are now between a rock and a hard place, by looking the other way, they have given tactic approval to all the cheaty cars. If they were to suddenly tell the top 5 to or so cheaty cars in A and B that they dont follow the the letter or the spirt of the rules and will face massive penalty laps next time, they would face a massive loss of income
 
      if you want to see $500 dollars cars look in the back of each group, and at a fair amount of C class  Yes there are $500 cars at Lemons, you just wont find any setting  fast laps. Some may finish near the front if enough of the cheaty cars drop out
   
    I LOVE Lemons, the atmosphere, the people, the cheating, the people pretending that they are not cheating, not to mention the chance to see some truly outrageous contraptions. You just have to look, to find the true $500 race cars. but dont let that discourage you

Re: Champcar in Lemons? Lemons cars seem to be just as fast these days!

JCH wrote:

a few things you need to understand
   
     $500 car was a tag line 15 yrs ago, now its a joke that hasn't been adjusted for inflation
     
       those that try the hardest to convince you that they really are 500 cars, or close to 500 dollar cars are probably the ones that don't have the $500 cars and have the most to loose if Lemons ever went back to what it originally was envisioned as

      if you want to see $500 dollars cars look in the back of each group, and at a fair amount of C class  Yes there are $500 cars at Lemons, you just wont find any setting  fast laps. Some may finish near the front if enough of the cheaty cars drop out

You are kind of contridicting yourself here.  Almost all of our builds have met the letter of the rules and the ones that have not, we asked for penalty laps.  Yes, all of them start in Class C but one is actually fast now and even the upgrades have been in the spirit of the rules with one exception.

Want to meet the letter of the rules and be fast...buy an e46 for $2100 and sell off $1600 in parts (don't say it can't be done...we just did it) from the interior...boom $500 car.  In our case the e46 in question had a blown motor and we were actually buying for a parts car (wheels, manual swap, both subframes, ECU,etc) to our new to us race car so we went even further selling off $1800 and getting $253 when we crushed the rest.  So maybe the key is buy two e46's and sell off parts.

Obviously, the boring BMW is just an example but it is one that I have recent, personal experience with.  So you can do a fast $500 car.  The fact that some folks (maybe most) choose not to does not make it a falicy.  The fact that lots of cars with 8-12 races on them no longer look like $500 cars due to incremental improvemnts using residuals also does not make the "$500 My Ass" the rule.

33

Re: Champcar in Lemons? Lemons cars seem to be just as fast these days!

OnkelUdo wrote:
JCH wrote:

a few things you need to understand
   
     $500 car was a tag line 15 yrs ago, now its a joke that hasn't been adjusted for inflation
     
       those that try the hardest to convince you that they really are 500 cars, or close to 500 dollar cars are probably the ones that don't have the $500 cars and have the most to loose if Lemons ever went back to what it originally was envisioned as

      if you want to see $500 dollars cars look in the back of each group, and at a fair amount of C class  Yes there are $500 cars at Lemons, you just wont find any setting  fast laps. Some may finish near the front if enough of the cheaty cars drop out

You are kind of contridicting yourself here.  Almost all of our builds have met the letter of the rules and the ones that have not, we asked for penalty laps.  Yes, all of them start in Class C but one is actually fast now and even the upgrades have been in the spirit of the rules with one exception.

Want to meet the letter of the rules and be fast...buy an e46 for $2100 and sell off $1600 in parts (don't say it can't be done...we just did it) from the interior...boom $500 car.  In our case the e46 in question had a blown motor and we were actually buying for a parts car (wheels, manual swap, both subframes, ECU,etc) to our new to us race car so we went even further selling off $1800 and getting $253 when we crushed the rest.  So maybe the key is buy two e46's and sell off parts.

Obviously, the boring BMW is just an example but it is one that I have recent, personal experience with.  So you can do a fast $500 car.  The fact that some folks (maybe most) choose not to does not make it a falicy.  The fact that lots of cars with 8-12 races on them no longer look like $500 cars due to incremental improvemnts using residuals also does not make the "$500 My Ass" the rule.

  Ohh  we have played the sell off parts game  played it very well too  sold a push in cigerette lighter for 1,000$  sold the ash tray for $500, if you belive that, you probably belive in $500 race cars too  the diffence between me and you is i admit the cheatyness of Lemons while you try to act like its not there   to  each their own, just like Lemons builds

Re: Champcar in Lemons? Lemons cars seem to be just as fast these days!

Or you could just out and call the guy a liar...

Re: Champcar in Lemons? Lemons cars seem to be just as fast these days!

JCH wrote:
OnkelUdo wrote:
JCH wrote:

a few things you need to understand
   
     $500 car was a tag line 15 yrs ago, now its a joke that hasn't been adjusted for inflation
     
       those that try the hardest to convince you that they really are 500 cars, or close to 500 dollar cars are probably the ones that don't have the $500 cars and have the most to loose if Lemons ever went back to what it originally was envisioned as

      if you want to see $500 dollars cars look in the back of each group, and at a fair amount of C class  Yes there are $500 cars at Lemons, you just wont find any setting  fast laps. Some may finish near the front if enough of the cheaty cars drop out

You are kind of contridicting yourself here.  Almost all of our builds have met the letter of the rules and the ones that have not, we asked for penalty laps.  Yes, all of them start in Class C but one is actually fast now and even the upgrades have been in the spirit of the rules with one exception.

Want to meet the letter of the rules and be fast...buy an e46 for $2100 and sell off $1600 in parts (don't say it can't be done...we just did it) from the interior...boom $500 car.  In our case the e46 in question had a blown motor and we were actually buying for a parts car (wheels, manual swap, both subframes, ECU,etc) to our new to us race car so we went even further selling off $1800 and getting $253 when we crushed the rest.  So maybe the key is buy two e46's and sell off parts.

Obviously, the boring BMW is just an example but it is one that I have recent, personal experience with.  So you can do a fast $500 car.  The fact that some folks (maybe most) choose not to does not make it a falicy.  The fact that lots of cars with 8-12 races on them no longer look like $500 cars due to incremental improvemnts using residuals also does not make the "$500 My Ass" the rule.

  Ohh  we have played the sell off parts game  played it very well too  sold a push in cigerette lighter for 1,000$  sold the ash tray for $500, if you belive that, you probably belive in $500 race cars too  the diffence between me and you is i admit the cheatyness of Lemons while you try to act like its not there   to  each their own, just like Lemons builds

Our 1st car was a real L69 84 Trans Am. We got the car for $800. I sold $1600+ in parts. That said, as I have mentioned it is getting really hard to build a legal Lemons car and compete in Champ. They dropped the points again. When we started we had a 485 point car, now the same car with intake, oil pan and carb is 400...and it has a faster 305. We can go with a 350+hp 350 and still be at 400 points.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

36 (edited by OnkelUdo 2021-10-15 09:38 AM)

Re: Champcar in Lemons? Lemons cars seem to be just as fast these days!

JCH wrote:

the diffence between me and you is i admit the cheatyness of Lemons while you try to act like its not there   to  each their own, just like Lemons builds

No, there appear to be a few differences.  One, I am not a dismissive to my fellow racers or their struggle to meet the rule in fact or spirit. 

Second, we actual sold parts and kept track of the the value.  For the 1947 Plymouth we got within $100 of getting the basket case to $500 and demanded our laps.  The BMW I mentioned above we did not even have to keep track as the car was purchased as an already caged and tech'ed vehicle but we were curious.  The numbers are real.

We cheat...sure.  Not on the budget on most cars when we intro them.  The Plymero ($1100 4th gen that donated its engine to another race car and received the flathead from the Plymouth).  It was potentially not a in the letter of the rules but certainly in the spirit.

Suzuki Esteem...$350 purchase price, nothing sold off but no improvements either...just maintenance and safety.

But heh, convince yourself everyone if failing to follow rules if it makes you feel better.  A large part of the field does not follow it but many do as well...I still consider it part of the fun doing more with less.

Re: Champcar in Lemons? Lemons cars seem to be just as fast these days!

JCH wrote:

a few things you need to understand
   
     $500 car was a tag line 15 yrs ago, now its a joke that hasn't been adjusted for inflation
     
       those that try the hardest to convince you that they really are 500 cars, or close to 500 dollar cars are probably the ones that don't have the $500 cars and have the most to loose if Lemons ever went back to what it originally was envisioned as
   
      the promotors are now between a rock and a hard place, by looking the other way, they have given tactic approval to all the cheaty cars. If they were to suddenly tell the top 5 to or so cheaty cars in A and B that they dont follow the the letter or the spirt of the rules and will face massive penalty laps next time, they would face a massive loss of income
 
      if you want to see $500 dollars cars look in the back of each group, and at a fair amount of C class  Yes there are $500 cars at Lemons, you just wont find any setting  fast laps. Some may finish near the front if enough of the cheaty cars drop out
   
    I LOVE Lemons, the atmosphere, the people, the cheating, the people pretending that they are not cheating, not to mention the chance to see some truly outrageous contraptions. You just have to look, to find the true $500 race cars. but dont let that discourage you

We are generally in the front 25% with a car that we have $60 into (including the cage). We purchased an ex-champcar miata with a "blown motor" and a slightly bent chassis, sold all the try-hard champcar bits, ended up actually making a few bucks and ended up with a free caged miata with a "blown motor." Turns out the engine had 10 quarts of oil in it, fixed the engine by draining 6 quarts, and now we also had an extra free oil change.

We happily take our class A every time, because we understand that it's inherently a faster and more reliable car than the rest of the field, but I don't think it's fair to say you can't build an upper class A car for under $500. Can easily be done with patience and elbow grease and/or getting a BMW or Miata.

We didn't want a miata because it's not within the spirit of the competition, but between all of us we have 4 other miatas/piles of parts and didn't want to spend money on spare parts. I have lots of respect for teams running the weird stuff, but financially the miata made sense.

Full Ass Racing
#455 Piñata Miata

38

Re: Champcar in Lemons? Lemons cars seem to be just as fast these days!

This bares repeating
    I LOVE Lemons, the atmosphere, the people, the cheating, the people pretending that they are not cheating, not to mention the chance to see some truly outrageous contraptions. You just have to look, to find the true $500 race cars. but dont let that discourage you

39 (edited by Lemon_Newton-Metre 2021-10-16 06:33 PM)

Re: Champcar in Lemons? Lemons cars seem to be just as fast these days!

duthehustle93 wrote:

[snip]
We didn't want a miata because it's not within the spirit of the competition, ... [snip]

(Aaaarrrgh! My whole world just came crashing down around me ;-) )

I disagree. How else are you going to evaluate your creative build _other than_ against an acknowledged standard?

Like when I followed an RC F-Sport on a twisty, rough, country road in my new-to-me (with 200k on the clock) $850 '04 Avalon.

I was impressed with how well my car handled the road (which I know very well). But just ahead of me was this magnificent machine, handling every road imperfection with such poise; so athletic, so powerful, so supple, so capable.

I could see its ["it's" (sic) was a Damm incorrect auto-correct] tires and suspension moving over the rough pavement, and yet how controlled the body was.

And right after (I was following exactly in his track), I could feel how the Avalon handled the same section. It's an excellent car, very comfortable on the road, and I kept up with him. But I knew I couldn't _keep_ up with him if he pushed it hard - which he wasn't.

Don't you feel the same way on the track? When you evaluate your multi-donor, cobbled together race car against a (not-in-the-spirit-of-Lemons?) BMW or Miata?

The satisfaction of driving what _you_ created and built, and seeing how it compares to the product of some of the best engineering, design, and constructor groups in the world, when you are actually _racing_?

I think they're critical to Lemons.

That's just my opinion.

40 (edited by OnkelUdo 2021-10-16 04:22 PM)

Re: Champcar in Lemons? Lemons cars seem to be just as fast these days!

Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:
duthehustle93 wrote:

[snip]
We didn't want a miata because it's not within the spirit of the competition, ... [snip]

(Aaaarrrgh! My whole world just came crashing down around me ;-) )

I disagree. How else are you going to evaluate your creative build _other than_ against an acknowledged standard?

Like when I followed an RC F-Sport on a twisty, rough, country road in my new-to-me (with 200k on the clock) $850 '04 Avalon.

I was impressed with how well my car handled the road (which I know very well). But just ahead of me was this magnificent machine, handling every road imperfection with such poise; so athletic, so powerful, so supple, so capable.

I could see it's tires and suspension moving over the rough pavement, and yet how controlled the body was.

And right after (I was following exactly in his track), I could feel how the Avalon handled the same section. It's an excellent car, very comfortable on the road, and I kept up with him. But I knew I couldn't _keep_ up with him if he pushed it hard - which he wasn't.

Don't you feel the same way on the track? When you evaluate your multi-donor, cobbled together race car against a (not-in-the-spirit-of-Lemons?) BMW or Miata?

The satisfaction of driving what _you_ created and built, and seeing how it compares to the product of some of the best engineering, design, and constructor groups in the world, when you are actually _racing_?

I think they're critical to Lemons.

That's just my opinion.

It is a mindset.  Regardless of what someone brings to Lemons I support them.  I ADORE them if they took built verse bought to the extreme even if the build is WAY cheaty.  Probably my favorite local buils to far the the Lexus SC400 Jeep Cherokee hat car.  What a thing of beauty!

Even when we cheat (again, one exception) it is always junkyard engineering.  Making a Dustbuster minivan that finishes well above mid pack almost every race (recent wheel loses excluded) and can easily be top 10 at deluge race is a blast.  Listenning to the "spotter" at Autobahn coaching his driver in an endless string of verbal diarrhea about how he has got this at this turn or that straight only to watch it gap the car by 80' in half a lap...epic!

Having a Judge make the comment that "There is nothing more satisfying than watching a '47 Plymouth pull e46's like they are tied to post on the straights"...life-changing!

We are not contenders and no one is scouting us for IMSA but damned if we do not have a great time with our bodged together crap!

Re: Champcar in Lemons? Lemons cars seem to be just as fast these days!

Hmmm, very true... I see your point. It's very cobbled together and we love the car because of it. It's always been fun for us to try to beat not-in-the-spirit-of-lemons *actual* race cars with our piece of junk trying to be a race car.

But I guess to not digress too much, we technically have $440 left in our miata which is a lot of opportunity to make it legitimately fast. We have no plan of doing it, but there are definitely some teams out there that have genuine sub-$500 really fast cars which have taken a legitimate route to add to the speed-creep bucket. And I think there's just as many $10k builds adding to this bucket. To each there own, I'd rather put that extra money towards tires, entry fees, and beer.

Full Ass Racing
#455 Piñata Miata

Re: Champcar in Lemons? Lemons cars seem to be just as fast these days!

JCH wrote:

This bares repeating
    I LOVE Lemons, the atmosphere, the people, the cheating, the people pretending that they are not cheating, not to mention the chance to see some truly outrageous contraptions. You just have to look, to find the true $500 race cars. but dont let that discourage you

I know someone that V8 swapped their car in a trailer after tech before the race.

Re: Champcar in Lemons? Lemons cars seem to be just as fast these days!

Bricoop wrote:
JCH wrote:

This bares repeating
    I LOVE Lemons, the atmosphere, the people, the cheating, the people pretending that they are not cheating, not to mention the chance to see some truly outrageous contraptions. You just have to look, to find the true $500 race cars. but dont let that discourage you

I know someone that V8 swapped their car in a trailer after tech before the race.

They won the race, right?

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

Re: Champcar in Lemons? Lemons cars seem to be just as fast these days!

therood wrote:
Bricoop wrote:
JCH wrote:

This bares repeating
    I LOVE Lemons, the atmosphere, the people, the cheating, the people pretending that they are not cheating, not to mention the chance to see some truly outrageous contraptions. You just have to look, to find the true $500 race cars. but dont let that discourage you

I know someone that V8 swapped their car in a trailer after tech before the race.

They won the race, right?

They definitely won their class.  I didn't ask if they overall'd but it wouldn't surprise me.

Re: Champcar in Lemons? Lemons cars seem to be just as fast these days!

(... needy ...) Even if they won Class C, an engine swap for $600 (presumably the evening / night / morning before a race) and a trophy ... damm.

Maybe they'll put the money to good use - like for counseling.

(Though admittedly, I'm right there also, because I'm even considering building a racecar with my limited skills)

Re: Champcar in Lemons? Lemons cars seem to be just as fast these days!

Bricoop wrote:
therood wrote:
Bricoop wrote:

I know someone that V8 swapped their car in a trailer after tech before the race.

They won the race, right?

They definitely won their class.  I didn't ask if they overall'd but it wouldn't surprise me.

? how is that possible? Wouldn't a judge noticed the very different exhaust note?

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Champcar in Lemons? Lemons cars seem to be just as fast these days!

Bricoop wrote:
therood wrote:
Bricoop wrote:

I know someone that V8 swapped their car in a trailer after tech before the race.

They won the race, right?

They definitely won their class.  I didn't ask if they overall'd but it wouldn't surprise me.

Well, then they win the Lifetime Achievement in Pointlessly Overcomplicating Their Weekend for a $600 (or $500) Trophy. I hope (as mentioned above) they spent it on some therapy because (as also mentioned elsewhere) the stakes couldn't possibly be lower.

https://media.giphy.com/media/u92EV5V1x7HwsOnA2t/giphy.gif

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

Re: Champcar in Lemons? Lemons cars seem to be just as fast these days!

Mr.Yuck wrote:
Bricoop wrote:
therood wrote:

They won the race, right?

They definitely won their class.  I didn't ask if they overall'd but it wouldn't surprise me.

? how is that possible? Wouldn't a judge noticed the very different exhaust note?

It all sounds the same after a while.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Champcar in Lemons? Lemons cars seem to be just as fast these days!

therood wrote:
Bricoop wrote:
therood wrote:

They won the race, right?

They definitely won their class.  I didn't ask if they overall'd but it wouldn't surprise me.

Well, then they win the Lifetime Achievement in Pointlessly Overcomplicating Their Weekend for a $600 (or $500) Trophy. I hope (as mentioned above) they spent it on some therapy because (as also mentioned elsewhere) the stakes couldn't possibly be lower.

[snip]

If they can prove this happened (if there's no pictures, it didn't happen), I'll even buy the trophy for them (I just got a welder); but they'll have to prepay the shipping and handling.

Re: Champcar in Lemons? Lemons cars seem to be just as fast these days!

Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:
therood wrote:
Bricoop wrote:

They definitely won their class.  I didn't ask if they overall'd but it wouldn't surprise me.

Well, then they win the Lifetime Achievement in Pointlessly Overcomplicating Their Weekend for a $600 (or $500) Trophy. I hope (as mentioned above) they spent it on some therapy because (as also mentioned elsewhere) the stakes couldn't possibly be lower.

[snip]

If they can prove this happened (if there's no pictures, it didn't happen), I'll even buy the trophy for them (I just got a welder); but they'll have to prepay the shipping and handling.

I'll ask.  It's been close to 10 years since it happened.