Topic: Roll Cage Kits?

I'm starting on my first Lemons Car.  I have some cage experience.  I'm a good fabricator and welder.  I'm looking for advice on weld in Roll Cage Kits.  They look like an easy way to save time and mess but there are many brands.  Have you used any?  Do you know what brands are best?  Or are they all BS and I'll be better off buying extra tubing and learning where to make the bends?
Thank you,
Ed

Re: Roll Cage Kits?

A lot of teams say great things about Roll Cage Components' kits.

Re: Roll Cage Kits?

Ro

Ed Sorbo wrote:

I'm starting on my first Lemons Car.  I have some cage experience.  I'm a good fabricator and welder.  I'm looking for advice on weld in Roll Cage Kits.  They look like an easy way to save time and mess but there are many brands.  Have you used any?  Do you know what brands are best?  Or are they all BS and I'll be better off buying extra tubing and learning where to make the bends?
Thank you,
Ed

Roll Cage Components is the only one we would use (I think 5 cages now).  Too many of all the others are one of the following:

Made for install with the interior still in (do not leave enought room for "expansive" drivers...tall, wide or both)
Are not really made for your car...generic kit sold as a custom kit because they adjusted the main hoop and halo width
Do not actuall meet all the rquirements in the rules and "How not to Fail Tech".

A large, local'ish to us company is probably the most notorious for the first issue and many a team have gotten the dreaded "We will let you run this race after you do XYZ but do not bring it back with that cage".

So a prebent kit from RCR is only as accurate as your measurements if Jim does not have it in his database already.  Opt of rhte 1 3/4" tube regardless of if you need it as the difference in price is minimal and I also suggest the .120 thickness as then tube and spreader are the same thickness making welding "easy".  For our last two cages from him, the cost difference with it delivered to local freight dock was about $75 more than us buying all the materials bare at our price (aka, no bulk discounts).

You do need to add at least a month onto his promised delivery date, call him on the promised ship date to ask for an update, then call him on the new promised ship date, etc.  Excellent cage fabricator but since he prioritizes those that have him install the cages in his shop...his promise dates are always optimistic.

FYI, you still need a notcher, welding skills and time to install it...it is not pre-fab, it is pre-bent and 75% pre-notched.

Re: Roll Cage Kits?

+1 for Rollcagecomponents (and +1 for the reminder to send him reminders :-) )

Good dude (Jim?) who did a great job for us on our first build, ours even has a narrow frame and needed am outrigger kit.  Everything arrived in pretty good shape and the build wasn't bad at all.

That being said, and you do you, but you're about to see a few cars for sale on this forum that are decently sorted and cost half of what your build will cost.   I'm proud that we built out semi-sorted turd ourselves, but at $4K buying a better sorted turd for $2K might have allowed us to do another race. 

Either way, good luck!  What races are you shooting for?

2021 Gingerman-I:  IOE (Strickland Propane)
2021 Gingerman-II:  20 seconds of footage on the wrap-up!
95 Chevy S-10

Re: Roll Cage Kits?

No matter who you use, mount the seat 1st, put your tallest driver in it before you start welding...

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Roll Cage Kits?

Mr.Yuck wrote:

No matter who you use, mount the seat 1st, put your tallest driver in it before you start welding...


Oh good point, I think you gave us this same advice and it's good (I'm 5'9" and have a 6'3" teammate)

2021 Gingerman-I:  IOE (Strickland Propane)
2021 Gingerman-II:  20 seconds of footage on the wrap-up!
95 Chevy S-10

Re: Roll Cage Kits?

Second that RCC needs to be bugged occasionally. Our E36 kit shows up missing one or two minor pieces and had a different style of door bar than we asked for. I tried a couple times to get him to respond and send the right ones, then just gave up and made them myself, was less hassle that way. But most people have good experiences with him. I'll say that fitment was great with our kit.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Turbo Dodge Powered E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Roll Cage Kits?

I would also imagine this is chassis dependent so you might want to mention what you're trying to cage.

Full Ass Racing
#455 Piñata Miata

9 (edited by Ed Sorbo 2021-10-14 04:08 PM)

Re: Roll Cage Kits?

Thank you all for the useful info.  I've emailed RCC to see if they have specs.  I'm thinking my first full cage build will be just a little easier this way.  Then I can do a full build on my next car.
We have a Yellow 2003 Mini S.  One of our members has a Blue '04 track car so hopefully we won't mix them up.
I've been racing motorcycles since '82.  I'm using this Lemons build to transfer my skills into the car world. 
We are 4 drivers and we think our first Theme will be a hit.  One of out drivers will not even need a costume!
We are in Southern CA.  2021 Buttonwillow bound.  That should say 2022 bound...
Thank you,
Ed

Re: Roll Cage Kits?

Awesome! Unfortunately I can't be too helpful with mini cages.

2021 buttonwillow might be a bit difficult to make it wink

Where in SoCal are you located?

Full Ass Racing
#455 Piñata Miata

11 (edited by OnkelUdo 2021-10-14 03:22 PM)

Re: Roll Cage Kits?

I will add my cautionary information in case you do not install your own cage...or even if you do.  The "How Not to Fail Tech" picture book is required reading and does need to be given to anyone working on the cage (exception is Jim at RCR...or Pagel himself).  Lemons rules line up 99% with many series but it is friggin picture book.

We have repaired many a crappy professional installed cage at the track for all of the following:

Not 100% welded spreaders
Spreaders not 24 sq inch
Not welding the tops of tubes
Things I have forgotten

Some of this is "Professionals" ripping someone off while most of it is pro's doing things that slip buy in say...dirttrack.

Guess who's job it is to make sure the pro does a Lemons legal job?  It is the guy that should have a copy of said picture book in his bathroom, on his fridge and in his car...yeah, yo the car owner.

Got a frame on body car...not covered in said picture book does not cover outriggers and the fact that spreader plates are still required on the frame.

12 (edited by cheseroo 2021-10-14 03:25 PM)

Re: Roll Cage Kits?

Im In OC, but I used Chris to build my last cage in the Jag.  For giggles you might give him a call to see what he says.

https://chrisbuckmanfabrication.com/

And 2021 Buttonwillow happened a month ago so that ones gonna be tough to make.  If your local, let me know if you'd like some advice/suggestions.  Been doing this a while.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

Re: Roll Cage Kits?

My first Lemons typo in my first post!  2022 Buttonwillow bound...maybe something sooner.
I've read the rules twice so far.  "How not to fail Tech" even has nice pictures to follow.
We are still stripping stuff out of the car and have a few other projects to finish before the real work starts.
Seems like the seat and cage are the place to start.  Yes?
Thank you,
Ed

Re: Roll Cage Kits?

Ed Sorbo wrote:

[snip]
Seems like the seat and cage are the place to start.  Yes?
Thank you,
Ed

_Many_ experienced builders here suggest precisely that, and yes, in that order.

Re: Roll Cage Kits?

Also, decide on your method for getting to the top welds.  There are three common methods with each having their advantages.  Adjusting the methods a little for the Mini:

Cut holes in the roof over the 4 welds and patch them later...easy, fast and even easier if you have the panoramic sunroof you need to sheet over anyway

Cut holes in the floor under the main hoop you can slip the cage down through after tacking it together to get the top welds then slip it back up and slide the spreader plates under...also pretty fast but you cannot always get convenient holes because of obstructions like the fuel tank, lines, brake lines, etc.

Plinth boxes (normally) under the main hoop.  Welding the spreader under the plinth, create the box to go over it but do not weld it in.  Tack the cage together, pull the boxes, do the top welds, slide boxes back in...more time consuming but works in any situation, easier to tie in the sill plates directly to the main hoop in some cases, uses more material.

Re: Roll Cage Kits?

OnkelUdo wrote:

Also, decide on your method for getting to the top welds.  There are three common methods with each having their advantages.  Adjusting the methods a little for the Mini:

Cut holes in the roof over the 4 welds and patch them later...easy, fast and even easier if you have the panoramic sunroof you need to sheet over anyway

Cut holes in the floor under the main hoop you can slip the cage down through after tacking it together to get the top welds then slip it back up and slide the spreader plates under...also pretty fast but you cannot always get convenient holes because of obstructions like the fuel tank, lines, brake lines, etc.

Plinth boxes (normally) under the main hoop.  Welding the spreader under the plinth, create the box to go over it but do not weld it in.  Tack the cage together, pull the boxes, do the top welds, slide boxes back in...more time consuming but works in any situation, easier to tie in the sill plates directly to the main hoop in some cases, uses more material.

/agree

Unless you owned a Rover P6 3500 and you unbolt the roof, weld everything completely and then bolt the roof back on.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

Re: Roll Cage Kits?

We installed a RCC cage in an E30 a few years back. It fit well and went in pretty quickly.

I just priced an E46 cage from RCC and it's about $1200 delivered. Here, DOM tubing cost over $1000 making RCC very appealing.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Roll Cage Kits?

I used pre-fabed cage as well when i had to redo the previous incorrect cage in the car. my 2c would be to go with the custom layout, to make it just right the way you like it. Even if they have your car on file. The template needs to be double checked before using it, and instructions are easy to follow. They make it exact, so add extra as desired.

https://www.facebook.com/greatglobsofoil/
This car....Is said to have a will of it's Own. Twisting its own body in rage...It accelerates on.
1978 Opel/Buick Isuzu(B) - IOE, C class, Incredible Feats in Badge Engineering; 1996 Ford Probe GT(B)