1 (edited by alloriginaltone 2022-01-17 04:16 PM)

Topic: Radio communications at PIT race - what was your experience?

Hi All -

Planning to communicate on GMRS bands at PIT race (yes I have my FCC license and this is a family team).  I am wondering how the experience was for other teams using the airwaves during the PIT race last april?  I could care less about who has or doesn't have licenses...the bottom line for me is understanding the experience of other teams at specifically this location.

I know there are a lot of ham radio operators in the area and they are not always the most friendly crowd.

Any comments would be great!

Re: Radio communications at PIT race - what was your experience?

We ran an antenna on a stick at the paddock and had no real problems around most of the track. If you're ACTUALLY on GMRS and not some hacked mess of a Baofeng it's no problem.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Radio communications at PIT race - what was your experience?

We used a hacked mess of a Baofeng, and it was a problem.

We picked up A LOT of interference from the corner workers and our frequencies weren't anywhere close to what they were supposedly on.

The Pentastar whisperer

4 (edited by Guildenstern 2022-01-19 02:32 AM)

Re: Radio communications at PIT race - what was your experience?

No you were ALL over the spectrum. There was talk of Jamming your primary with 50W of Mexican Polka.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

5 (edited by Bayley 2022-01-19 11:10 AM)

Re: Radio communications at PIT race - what was your experience?

Apparently wireless gas and electric meters (the frequency I was using) LOVE Mexican Polka music as well. I mean, can you blame 'em?

The Pentastar whisperer

Re: Radio communications at PIT race - what was your experience?

geze, we did a quick spectrum of FRS GMRS I didn't know you were leaking out THAT far!

Baofengs are nothing but trouble.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

7 (edited by VKZ24 2022-01-20 07:20 AM)

Re: Radio communications at PIT race - what was your experience?

Guildenstern wrote:

Baofengs are nothing but trouble.

Ours have worked just fine for the last five years.  YMMV.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Radio communications at PIT race - what was your experience?

why don't you just buy a real racing radio set up? That way you can have spotters around the track and give you real time info. It helps more than you would think.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Radio communications at PIT race - what was your experience?

Mr.Yuck wrote:

why don't you just buy a real racing radio set up? That way you can have spotters around the track and give you real time info. It helps more than you would think.

What is a real racing radio?  The stuff I saw from the race radio companies was rebranded Baofeng or other China low end stuff. 

Decent antennas like a Nagoya NA-771 on the handheld and an external on the car will allow you to communicate at a lower wattage.  The rubber antennas that come on the Baofengs are crap.

I run my Baofengs on the HAM simplex bands where it's legal with a license.  Some day I will upgrade to Motorolas or Yaesus, but we prefer to use our radios only when we absolutely must.

Team whatever_racecar #745 Volvo wagon

Re: Radio communications at PIT race - what was your experience?

Once I get my car done (Someday), Im planning to use CB.

88 Festiva  -  Damn Tree!!!
"We Are Not Really From Iran" Festiva  -  Motor and Trans to be anounced

Re: Radio communications at PIT race - what was your experience?

VKZ24 wrote:
Guildenstern wrote:

Baofengs are nothing but trouble.

Ours have worked just fine for the last five years.  YMMV.

That's a lot of the problem with them, poor consistency, combined with extra variables in the mods to get it out of 2m transmission. Especially when for just a lil bit more you can get a Terra GMRS band radio, and for a bit more above that you can snag some used Kenwood or iComm heavy duty stuff on eBay for in car and Base station. Which then frees your terra's up for handi-talk duty with the team.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Radio communications at PIT race - what was your experience?

Guildenstern wrote:

That's a lot of the problem with them, poor consistency, combined with extra variables in the mods to get it out of 2m transmission. Especially when for just a lil bit more you can get a Terra GMRS band radio, and for a bit more above that you can snag some used Kenwood or iComm heavy duty stuff on eBay for in car and Base station. Which then frees your terra's up for handi-talk duty with the team.

Prior, we had a pair of used Motorola SP50's we got off Ebay.  They worked great for us (we lucked up and the set frequency was not being used by another team) but one died, and we discovered getting another one reprogrammed was more expensive than a new Baofeng UV-5R.  We bought the Baofeng and programmed it to match the existing Motorola, and used that setup until the other Motorola died. 

Now we have three Baofeng's and really have no real problems with ours.  Sometimes at track like Road Atlanta we can't RX/TX around the entire track, but that's OK.  We typically only use the radios to get ready for our pit stops or a possible mechanical issue.   Some teams yammer on and on like NASCAR with their spotters or like a WRC navigator, which would drive me nuts.  My team knows that during my stint, I don't want to hear any chatter in my ear unless it's absolutely necessary.  The less we talk, the better our team/car are doing in the race.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Radio communications at PIT race - what was your experience?

I'll just throw out that getting your HAM license is a super easy multiple choice test, where you have access to all the questions and answers ahead of time.  Once you have it, there are so many more frequencies you can use.

Team whatever_racecar #745 Volvo wagon

Re: Radio communications at PIT race - what was your experience?

Guildenstern wrote:
VKZ24 wrote:
Guildenstern wrote:

Baofengs are nothing but trouble.

Ours have worked just fine for the last five years.  YMMV.

That's a lot of the problem with them, poor consistency, combined with extra variables in the mods to get it out of 2m transmission. Especially when for just a lil bit more you can get a Terra GMRS band radio, and for a bit more above that you can snag some used Kenwood or iComm heavy duty stuff on eBay for in car and Base station. Which then frees your terra's up for handi-talk duty with the team.

My experience is there's 2 kinds of Baofeng's: the original few years (up to like 2019) of absolute garbage that flooded in and had 0 quality control, and the last couple years where the FCC seems to have stepped in and told them to clean up their act or GTFO. BTECH apparently is a US based importer of Baofeng stuff an now has GMRS type certified radios that, in my experience, are very good.

The issues I've had with them typically are user error because of all the menu options and casual approach to manually setting them up instead of programming them with software like Chirp. The big upside to Terra and used business band radios like Kenwood or Vertex is that they're pretty much required to be programmed in software (which can sometimes be really hard to come by and use for used units), thus minimizing the amount of user error involved.

I'm currently using BTECH mobile and handheld units, as well as a couple older Baofengs that have proven to be reliable as backups. I'm also playing with Radioddity handhelds that seem pretty good and have the bonus of being USB-C chargeable.

So, I think the "Baofengs are garbage" mentality is a little outdated based on what they're currently offering through BTECH.

Re: Radio communications at PIT race - what was your experience?

Mr.Yuck wrote:

why don't you just buy a real racing radio set up? That way you can have spotters around the track and give you real time info. It helps more than you would think.

Ok.

Re: Radio communications at PIT race - what was your experience?

So, were the GMRS channels saturated at PIT or was there room to communicate?
Did ppl go to the HAM bands?

Re: Radio communications at PIT race - what was your experience?

There was room. Honestly some of the 4 spotter try hards just need to accept it's a multicom so everyone needs to just get used to identifying their car or team when they talk.

If you wan't a non-stop dialog with your driver, you may want to think cell phone not radio.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Radio communications at PIT race - what was your experience?

To answer the original question, There were one or two iffy/dead spots at PITT when you're at the further reaches of the track if you're using basic off the shelf radios. We've always just made a point of only trying to talk when we're on a section of track near the pits.

GMRS is a problem because most people don't understand privacy codes. A lot of people seem to think of them as "sub channels" but they aren't. Privacy codes just add a signal to the start of the broadcast, and your radio won't play any incoming broadcast that didn't have that signal. You're all still trying to broadcast on the same channel though. So what you get is 10 teams trying to use the same channel, but half of them can't hear the other chatter and have no idea they're stepping all over each other. If you set your radio to be on a channel with no privacy code you can hear all the overlap. This leads to problems with people thinking they're out of range or have crap radios because their broadcast won't go through, because 4 teams are trying to talk at once, and one of those teams is someone with 4 spotters that never, ever, shuts up.


When we (our team) go back to doing more than 1 race a year I'm going to get a real license so I can legally use other channels.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Radio communications at PIT race - what was your experience?

TheEngineer wrote:

To answer the original question, There were one or two iffy/dead spots at PITT when you're at the further reaches of the track if you're using basic off the shelf radios. We've always just made a point of only trying to talk when we're on a section of track near the pits.

GMRS is a problem because most people don't understand privacy codes. A lot of people seem to think of them as "sub channels" but they aren't. Privacy codes just add a signal to the start of the broadcast, and your radio won't play any incoming broadcast that didn't have that signal. You're all still trying to broadcast on the same channel though. So what you get is 10 teams trying to use the same channel, but half of them can't hear the other chatter and have no idea they're stepping all over each other. If you set your radio to be on a channel with no privacy code you can hear all the overlap. This leads to problems with people thinking they're out of range or have crap radios because their broadcast won't go through, because 4 teams are trying to talk at once, and one of those teams is someone with 4 spotters that never, ever, shuts up.


When we (our team) go back to doing more than 1 race a year I'm going to get a real license so I can legally use other channels.

Thank you.  That was helpful.

Re: Radio communications at PIT race - what was your experience?

Fun fact, Lemons was selling Rugged Radios in their store up until last year. They're rebadged baofengs in blue housings

Re: Radio communications at PIT race - what was your experience?

TheEngineer wrote:

To answer the original question, There were one or two iffy/dead spots at PITT when you're at the further reaches of the track if you're using basic off the shelf radios. We've always just made a point of only trying to talk when we're on a section of track near the pits.

GMRS is a problem because most people don't understand privacy codes. A lot of people seem to think of them as "sub channels" but they aren't. Privacy codes just add a signal to the start of the broadcast, and your radio won't play any incoming broadcast that didn't have that signal. You're all still trying to broadcast on the same channel though. So what you get is 10 teams trying to use the same channel, but half of them can't hear the other chatter and have no idea they're stepping all over each other. If you set your radio to be on a channel with no privacy code you can hear all the overlap. This leads to problems with people thinking they're out of range or have crap radios because their broadcast won't go through, because 4 teams are trying to talk at once, and one of those teams is someone with 4 spotters that never, ever, shuts up.


When we (our team) go back to doing more than 1 race a year I'm going to get a real license so I can legally use other channels.

Same thing happens on non-GMRS frequencies. There are times our radios light up with no audio which should be someone else on our channel.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Radio communications at PIT race - what was your experience?

VKZ24 wrote:
Guildenstern wrote:

That's a lot of the problem with them, poor consistency, combined with extra variables in the mods to get it out of 2m transmission. Especially when for just a lil bit more you can get a Terra GMRS band radio, and for a bit more above that you can snag some used Kenwood or iComm heavy duty stuff on eBay for in car and Base station. Which then frees your terra's up for handi-talk duty with the team.

Prior, we had a pair of used Motorola SP50's we got off Ebay.  They worked great for us (we lucked up and the set frequency was not being used by another team) but one died, and we discovered getting another one reprogrammed was more expensive than a new Baofeng UV-5R.  We bought the Baofeng and programmed it to match the existing Motorola, and used that setup until the other Motorola died. 

Now we have three Baofeng's and really have no real problems with ours.  Sometimes at track like Road Atlanta we can't RX/TX around the entire track, but that's OK.  We typically only use the radios to get ready for our pit stops or a possible mechanical issue.   Some teams yammer on and on like NASCAR with their spotters or like a WRC navigator, which would drive me nuts.  My team knows that during my stint, I don't want to hear any chatter in my ear unless it's absolutely necessary.  The less we talk, the better our team/car are doing in the race.

We have mostly transitioned from Motorolas to Baofengs too. We still have both but rarely use our Motorolas anymore.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Radio communications at PIT race - what was your experience?

General reply about various comments.

We started out using Motorolas like VKZ24 and have transitioned to Baofengs as well. I spent thousands of dollars on Motorolas, repairs, testing and programming over the years.

Years ago, 2014ish, a buddy started using Baofengs. Once they got the programming and roof antennas right, the 4 watt radios had almost full track coverage at Thunderhill's newly extended course.

FYI, GMRS are UHF frequencies too.

As Aaron.Vogel pointed out, program the Baofengs with CHIRP is WAY easier. Get it right and your comms are good.

Yes, Lemons used to sell blue rebranded Baofengs through their store via Rugged Radios.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z