Topic: Salvage auction fees

If I bought a $500 car via a salvage auction such as Copart or IAA and paid $1000 in fees, would it pass for Lemons?

Re: Salvage auction fees

why would you pay $1000 in fees? Is that in addition to the $500?

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

3 (edited by chaase 2022-06-08 06:34 AM)

Re: Salvage auction fees

The auction fees count in the purchase price unless they were a membership fee you could use for something else as well.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C x2 and IOE winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

Re: Salvage auction fees

chaase wrote:

The auction fees count in the purchase price unless they were a membership fee you could use for something else as well.

It's as much of a gray area as exists, but things like auction, shipping, and taxes all count toward the budget if I as a BS Judge want to consider it part of the purchase price. Does that ever get enforced? Not very often.

Your budget looked at under a microscope with that lens if you've done something like:

* imported an R34 GT-R or something from Japan.
* bought an off-the-shelf high-performance car from Copart for "$500 + $1000 fees.| So if the OP has gotten a fifth-gen Camaro with a V8, a Boxster, an E46...something like that. In that case, you'd better get selling a lot of stuff, theme it well, and have a good story ready.
* the documentation trail is generally shady or inconclusive.

If the OP has spent $500 + $1000 for a Lada Riva, then nobody is going to bat an eye at it.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

Re: Salvage auction fees

Mr.Yuck wrote:

why would you pay $1000 in fees? Is that in addition to the $500?

I don't WANT to pay $1000 in fees! But I'm wondering if spending $1500 at a salvage auction will give me better options than $1500 on craigslist. I know those auctions can be a crapshoot, but they typically go for 25% or less of blue book value. It's become a mini addiction watching those cars fly by on the auction block!

Re: Salvage auction fees

therood wrote:

It's as much of a gray area as exists, but things like auction, shipping, and taxes all count toward the budget if I as a BS Judge want to consider it part of the purchase price. Does that ever get enforced? Not very often.

Your budget looked at under a microscope with that lens if you've done something like:

* imported an R34 GT-R or something from Japan.
* bought an off-the-shelf high-performance car from Copart for "$500 + $1000 fees.| So if the OP has gotten a fifth-gen Camaro with a V8, a Boxster, an E46...something like that. In that case, you'd better get selling a lot of stuff, theme it well, and have a good story ready.
* the documentation trail is generally shady or inconclusive.

If the OP has spent $500 + $1000 for a Lada Riva, then nobody is going to bat an eye at it.

Thanks for that perspective. Given the fees would count toward the $500 (in spirit), I'm not sure the math would work out. I'm looking for a midrange, off-the-radar, sporty car, like a Hyundai Genesis Coupe, but all I can think of that could be sold to bring the cost down would be the front and rear seats. What else?

Anyway, thanks again. Gonna keep scouring the internet for ideas.

Re: Salvage auction fees

Leeleelemon wrote:

Thanks for that perspective. Given the fees would count toward the $500 (in spirit), I'm not sure the math would work out. I'm looking for a midrange, off-the-radar, sporty car, like a Hyundai Genesis Coupe, but all I can think of that could be sold to bring the cost down would be the front and rear seats. What else?

You would be surprised at what you can sell,IF you find the right car/interested buyer.Things like headlights,turn signals,A/C controls,infotainment systems,door cards,window/door switches,consoles,trim pieces,cupholders....Basically anything you are going to remove(or not need) for a racecar....I have seen people sell straight body panels for cash and the damaged fender Pound out the dents,roll on some paint, and it's good to go.....

45+x Loser.....You'd think I would learn......
5x I.O.E  Winner   1 Heroic Fix Winner   1 Org Choice Winner
2x  I Got Screwed Winner    2x Class C Winner
(Still a Class B driver in a Class A car)

8 (edited by Lemon_Newton-Metre 2022-06-08 10:39 AM)

Re: Salvage auction fees

Fees on a $500 Copart wouldn't be $1000; but could easily be $350.

(NOT an official opinion, but what i have gleaned from previous posts):

No one has yet mentioned the excess amount over the $500 budget is accounted for by penalty laps.

Unless a race was oversubscribed, it probably wouldn't keep you out of the race in favor of a lower-cost car.

And: the suggestion to pay the fees early probably solves that issue.

If you're not concerned about penalty laps, build what you want.

Now, the 'Spirit of Lemons" is a different story.

Re: Salvage auction fees

Leeleelemon wrote:
Mr.Yuck wrote:

why would you pay $1000 in fees? Is that in addition to the $500?

I don't WANT to pay $1000 in fees! But I'm wondering if spending $1500 at a salvage auction will give me better options than $1500 on craigslist. I know those auctions can be a crapshoot, but they typically go for 25% or less of blue book value. It's become a mini addiction watching those cars fly by on the auction block!


here perfect for what you want to do. https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/it … =top_picks

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Salvage auction fees

therood wrote:
chaase wrote:

The auction fees count in the purchase price unless they were a membership fee you could use for something else as well.

It's as much of a gray area as exists, but things like auction, shipping, and taxes all count toward the budget if I as a BS Judge want to consider it part of the purchase price. Does that ever get enforced? Not very often.

Your budget looked at under a microscope with that lens if you've done something like:

* imported an R34 GT-R or something from Japan.
* bought an off-the-shelf high-performance car from Copart for "$500 + $1000 fees.| So if the OP has gotten a fifth-gen Camaro with a V8, a Boxster, an E46...something like that. In that case, you'd better get selling a lot of stuff, theme it well, and have a good story ready.
* the documentation trail is generally shady or inconclusive.

If the OP has spent $500 + $1000 for a Lada Riva, then nobody is going to bat an eye at it.

It's universally understood in BS judge land that the worse the car is, the less the budget matters with some cars being completely exempt.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C x2 and IOE winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

Re: Salvage auction fees

Leeleelemon wrote:
therood wrote:

It's as much of a gray area as exists, but things like auction, shipping, and taxes all count toward the budget if I as a BS Judge want to consider it part of the purchase price. Does that ever get enforced? Not very often.

Your budget looked at under a microscope with that lens if you've done something like:

* imported an R34 GT-R or something from Japan.
* bought an off-the-shelf high-performance car from Copart for "$500 + $1000 fees.| So if the OP has gotten a fifth-gen Camaro with a V8, a Boxster, an E46...something like that. In that case, you'd better get selling a lot of stuff, theme it well, and have a good story ready.
* the documentation trail is generally shady or inconclusive.

If the OP has spent $500 + $1000 for a Lada Riva, then nobody is going to bat an eye at it.

Thanks for that perspective. Given the fees would count toward the $500 (in spirit), I'm not sure the math would work out. I'm looking for a midrange, off-the-radar, sporty car, like a Hyundai Genesis Coupe, but all I can think of that could be sold to bring the cost down would be the front and rear seats. What else?

Anyway, thanks again. Gonna keep scouring the internet for ideas.

I saw a complete four-cylinder Genesis Coupe in a junkyard not long ago...didn't look like it had been in an accident or anything. They're surely all out of warranty by this point (mostly) and there is some kind of accelerated depreciation curve on Korean cars that makes a two-owner Hyundai basically in the same ballpark as a (typical) seven-owner Infiniti.

All that said, I don't think the Genesis is what everyone wants in Lemons, but I don't think it's a bad thing to be looking for. We've had one that's raced twice in Colorado and it's done...fine. Ok. Mediocre. You're probably unlikely to get a ton of BS grief (ie caring about fees) for a Genesis. Worst-case scenario is that we suddenly have a run on Hyundai Genesis Coupes.

YMMV with other "off-the-radar" sporty cars, but the Genesis isn't a bad bet.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

Re: Salvage auction fees

Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:

Fees on a $500 Copart wouldn't be $1000; but could easily be $350.

(NOT an official opinion, but what i have gleaned from previous posts):

For others considering this, the fees can actually be more than $1000. I think it’s a little worse here in CA than other states but anyway, for Copart and I believe IAA as well, it would be about:

$300 for auction fees
$300 for broker fees
$300 for documentation fees
$100 for state tax
$400 for shipping which is required even if you live across the street and have your own trailer.
———-
$1400 total fees


It feels like a bit of a scam, but as I said, even with these fees I’m thinking it’s possible to get a better deal there than spending the same amount on Craigslist, at least for the type of car I’m thinking of. In the last few weeks I’ve contacted at least a dozen Craigslist sellers, many the same day it was posted, and almost all have responded that it has been sold already or have not responded (which I assume is for the same reason).

Re: Salvage auction fees

I have a personal, completely unofficial rule of thumb of whether I think a car should be eligible for Lemons.  If you can find them in DIY junkyards, you should be good to go.  The DIY junkyard is generally the bottom feeder in the junkyard food chain.  If a car ends up there, it's because the other junkyards felt they couldn't make enough money off of it to be worth their while.  There are exceptions but that's my general rule of thumb.  Besides, you will likely want something that is somewhat readily available in the DIY yards because you're gonna need spares.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

Re: Salvage auction fees

Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:

Fees on a $500 Copart wouldn't be $1000; but could easily be $350. [snip]

I stand corrected.

Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:

... (NOT an official opinion, but what i have gleaned from previous posts):

No one has yet mentioned the excess amount over the $500 budget is accounted for by penalty laps.

Unless a race was oversubscribed, it probably wouldn't keep you out of the race in favor of a lower-cost car.

And: the suggestion to pay the fees early probably solves that issue.

If you're not concerned about penalty laps, build what you want.

Now, the 'Spirit of Lemons" is a different story.

The colon ^ referred to the lines below, not above; I summarized previous posts. Sorry for the confusion - I agree I wasn't clear.

///////

I'm in PA; buyers at Copart sales in PA can purchase without a broker, and can collect the car themselves.

If it's a clean title, buyers can also just pick up paperwork, take it to PENNDOT (or a Tag&Title business), get a title, registration, and tag, and drive it home (that last depends on the location - shhhhh ;-) ... sometimes it needs to be towed off the lot, but you can do it yourself).

For my Lemons candidate RX-8 flood car (salvage title), here is my cost basis:

SALE PRICE.           1050.00

BUYER FEE.              325.00
(Percentage of sale price, standard)

VIRTUAL BID FEE.    69.00
(For the pleasure and convenience of buying online; and, not having to stand next to the sweaty old guy who needs a shower when they raise their arm <aka: me>)

GATE.                         59.00
(pays for the guy who loads your car onto your trailer)

NET COST.             1,503.00

Tax would be paid when I ask for a title in my name (either salvage or reconstructed); or (I think) I pay PA Dept. Rev. directly if it's for scrap or parts but no new title. I haven't gotten that far yet - I'm still thinking about what to do with it.

$1400 is what it costs you in CA?

You should move. Kidding; that's what the nice weather costs.

That fee structure looks like purchasers in CA are getting boned with purchases from large corporations. Private sales look to be the way to go.

Leeleelemon wrote:

[snip]
It feels like a bit of a scam, but as I said, even with these fees I’m thinking it’s possible to get a better deal there than spending the same amount on Craigslist, at least for the type of car I’m thinking of. In the last few weeks I’ve contacted at least a dozen Craigslist sellers, many the same day it was posted, and almost all have responded that it has been sold already or have not responded (which I assume is for the same reason).

See: cheseroo's suggestion about vehicle types - I think that's spot on.

Re: Salvage auction fees

Where in CA are you located? A buddy of mine just purchased a property and has a whole lot of $100 cars without paperwork... mostly SN95's. Also, I might have a cheap car for sale and might know a team that is about to retire/sell their prebuilt car. I also may have a spot open on my team. A lot of options... I'm in SoCal.

Full Ass Racing
#455 Piñata Miata - 1990 Miata
#735 BMDollhÜr 7Turdy5i - 1990 735i

Re: Salvage auction fees

Don't sweat the cost/fees too much.  Build the car (keeping BS to a minimum), pass tech, and you get to race.  Seems like it's getting harder and harder to find a deal via online auctions.  #makecraigslistgreatagain

Re: Salvage auction fees

If you really liked the idea of a particular car, then run it. Even if the judges think it is cheaty, then you'll just get laps and can enjoy it anyway - even if not competitive (although unlikely anyway so whatever). But your suggestion seems to bore the judge with questionable rate of success, so it could be more fun to find a more terrible but more entertaining car (that's also cheaper).

Another option (besides shopping turn-key racers) is looking at the results and seeing what does well. Ford Focus seem to do well in Class B, at least in the Midwest. Also, Camry engines seem to be all the rage, and sticking one in a lighter rwd vehicle seems like recipe for fun as well. There are some summaries or spreadsheets at what does better than average in races. Find a model that has lots of parts out there (both used in junkyard and aftermarket - especially brakes) and reliable-ish. Or go full stupid and find something old, rare, and perhaps french to be a painful but unique Class C / IOE entrant. There are tons of possibilities and if you do something like a Saturn sky Ute then they don't seem to care as much about price as much as it being awesome to take photos of.

-Robert, Party Sheep Racing
The Jerry Lundegaard GMAC Financing Award, Joliet 2013 [Cutlass Ciera w/ Iron Duke]
Eta E30: IL Fall '15, MI Spring '16, IL Summer '16, MI Spring '17, KY '17, MI Summer '21, KY '21, MI Summer '21, MI Fall '22

Re: Salvage auction fees

Here's a grab bag of cars at a tow auction with all of them having starting bids of $100.  I guarantee you could walk out of there with something within budget.
https://app.joyrideautos.com/auction/LA … ion-101654

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

Re: Salvage auction fees

SwarlesInCharge wrote:

But your suggestion seems to bore the judge with questionable rate of success, so it could be more fun to find a more terrible but more entertaining car (that's also cheaper).

Just to add on... terrible/rare/weird cars are usually cheaper initially but once you realize there's no cage kits, junkyard parts, or aftermarket support on your rare and unreliable nostalgia vehicle it'll quickly force you to start selling organs. It's more in the spirit of Lemons, but I wouldn't agree it's cheaper.

Full Ass Racing
#455 Piñata Miata - 1990 Miata
#735 BMDollhÜr 7Turdy5i - 1990 735i

Re: Salvage auction fees

I prefer to buy cars from individuals.

I bought a car from Copart a while and the fees sucked a bit. They did not exceed the purchase price and were something like 40% which included TT&L. It had a salvage title so I avoided going through a dealer/broker and I towed it myself.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

21 (edited by SwarlesInCharge 2022-06-18 10:03 AM)

Re: Salvage auction fees

duthehustle93 wrote:
SwarlesInCharge wrote:

But your suggestion seems to bore the judge with questionable rate of success, so it could be more fun to find a more terrible but more entertaining car (that's also cheaper).

Just to add on... terrible/rare/weird cars are usually cheaper initially but once you realize there's no cage kits, junkyard parts, or aftermarket support on your rare and unreliable nostalgia vehicle it'll quickly force you to start selling organs. It's more in the spirit of Lemons, but I wouldn't agree it's cheaper.

For some, very true - but only masochists would drive a French car or even a Chrysler.

But there were many millions of butt terrible GM vehicles and they are dime a dozen in junkyards.  Even if a particular model wasn't a huge seller, like perhaps a 1994 Buick Skylark - I think you ought to be able to lego in pieces from other common chassis donors. Hell the dustbuster has Corvette brakes...

-Robert, Party Sheep Racing
The Jerry Lundegaard GMAC Financing Award, Joliet 2013 [Cutlass Ciera w/ Iron Duke]
Eta E30: IL Fall '15, MI Spring '16, IL Summer '16, MI Spring '17, KY '17, MI Summer '21, KY '21, MI Summer '21, MI Fall '22