Topic: Thoughts on Thunderhill

What are the overall thoughts on the 3 tracks Thunderhill setup? Did y'all enjoy it?

Some of the transitions on Saturday were quite....sketchy to say the least. The Cyclone backwards was something else as well.

Re: Thoughts on Thunderhill

I’ve driven hundreds of laps at Thunderhill, but never in the clockwise direction. It was like learning the track all over again. I did 3 sessions on the test day and still wasn’t totally comfortable until well into my 1hr. 45min race stint. Since it was essentially all new, I liked it. I thought there was going to be way more spins and 4 wheels off than there actually was. Those blind corners required some real commitment and faith to nail consistent laps. It was both exciting and enjoyable, 2 thumbs up from me.

Re: Thoughts on Thunderhill

IMO the organizers crushed it.  If they want feedback, posting pit on/off ahead of time or a giant Pit On sign would have saved a lot of confusion.  Tough on Eric trying to convey this to a bunch of guys who just want to jump in their rigs and go racing.  Practice was one way, start of Saturday was another, Saturday mid day was another, Sunday start was same as sat, Sunday morning same as Sat Morning, and then change again Sunday afternoon. (Informational for those not there).

As far as racing, I prefer going the correct direction, having runoff to aim at, etc.  I'm glad we did it but would prefer to use the regular direction going forward.  No particular layout would prevent me us from signing up from another race.

Re: Thoughts on Thunderhill

Fun fact: the original Thunderhill track was designed to run clockwise, but the helicopter pilot hired to film an aerial lap for marketing purposes flew it in the wrong direction.

Re: Thoughts on Thunderhill

I'm glad I did it, because I love Thunderhill and wanted to try this--but I hope they meant what they said during the award ceremony, that we probably won't be doing it again. lol

Re: Thoughts on Thunderhill

Yeah it definitely was a fun and interesting weekend, but lets not do it again.

Re: Thoughts on Thunderhill

kornfeld wrote:

I'm glad I did it, because I love Thunderhill and wanted to try this--but I hope they meant what they said during the award ceremony, that we probably won't be doing it again. lol

I don't think we ever intend to do two races at Thunderhill in a year, but if we end up having to have two in a year, I could see running the 3-mile in both directions, one per day.

For what it's worth, Jay's original idea was even crazier—I'll spare you the details—but my pitch was to have a bonus Monday race on the West track, which in retrospect would also have probably not been super popular. We landed where we did after a couple weeks of wrangling and debating. Honestly, I think it worked out ok, but I'm going to lobby against the five-mile circuit in reverse until I'm out of breath.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

8 (edited by kornfeld 2023-02-24 09:54 AM)

Re: Thoughts on Thunderhill

Have people complained about the 5 mile in the regular direction? Or is the thinking to just mix it up?

(I'm sure that people have complained about literally everything at one point or another haha--the 5 mile is just such an incredible one-of-a-kind track, that I'm curious why we wouldn't continue to make use of it.)

Re: Thoughts on Thunderhill

If its 2 events at THill or 2 events at Sonoma, I vote THill everytime even though its a 3-hour tow vs a 1-hour to Sonoma).  The facility is just superb.  I had never raced the 3 mile forwards, I really enjoyed that. And the lady in the gift shop is the absolute best.  She hates that our team name has a curse word in it....I wonder how the anal probe practice sign up went lol.

Good job Rood, seemed to run really smoothly from an outsiders perspective.

Re: Thoughts on Thunderhill

kornfeld wrote:

Have people complained about the 5 mile in the regular direction? Or is the thinking to just mix it up?

(I'm sure that people have complained about literally everything at one point or another haha--the 5 mile is just such an incredible one-of-a-kind track, that I'm curious why we wouldn't continue to make use of it.)

No real complaints about the "normal" 5-mile layout, but we figured that with a second Thunderhill date looming already, we should give everyone something a little different so it wasn't just the exact same thing twice in three months.

It worked out alright, but I would think any future single Thunderhill dates would be the 5-mile track.

(And yes, people have complained about virtually everything in the five years I've been full-time staff.)

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

Re: Thoughts on Thunderhill

therood wrote:
kornfeld wrote:

I'm glad I did it, because I love Thunderhill and wanted to try this--but I hope they meant what they said during the award ceremony, that we probably won't be doing it again. lol

I don't think we ever intend to do two races at Thunderhill in a year, but if we end up having to have two in a year, I could see running the 3-mile in both directions, one per day.

For what it's worth, Jay's original idea was even crazier—I'll spare you the details—but my pitch was to have a bonus Monday race on the West track, which in retrospect would also have probably not been super popular. We landed where we did after a couple weeks of wrangling and debating. Honestly, I think it worked out ok, but I'm going to lobby against the five-mile circuit in reverse until I'm out of breath.


If they never did all 3 versions in one weekend again, I don’t think anyone would be upset. BUT…. The 5 mile reverse direction was awesome. If you ran an entire weekend that format, I would sign up in a heartbeat. The west side flows sooooo much better that direction. Ask the other racers, I would bet they say the same. Everyone I spoke to, felt that way.

The 3 mile reverse, not so much. No matter how you slice it, you guys nailed it. Huge kudos to Lemons staff, Thunderhill staff and safety teams for a great weekend.

Sorry For Party Racing, Ran When Parked Racing. #3 eLSS Camino, #21 TWAP Solstice.
WAP Pontiac Solstice (RIP)2007-2023

12 (edited by kornfeld 2023-02-25 03:25 PM)

Re: Thoughts on Thunderhill

Which configuration will be run at the May Thunderhill event? And will it be the same configuration all weekend? I just realized that I don't see this info on the event page, but maybe it's on there.

Edit-- never mind, looks like 5 mile forward.

Re: Thoughts on Thunderhill

Also, Eric, you said, "I'm going to lobby against the five-mile circuit in reverse until I'm out of breath." What is it about that configuration that made you feel that way?

14

Re: Thoughts on Thunderhill

I had a blast Sunday, despite wrecking the car in the afternoon. I’d rather do Lemons on the 3 mile than the 5 mile any day. The 5 mile is fun a few times but the long laps and empty track get boring after a while. With the 3 mile it felt more like a Sonoma race with a few less cars and more space to safely pass. To put it simply the 3 mile feels like a race while the 5 mile feels like a day-long trackday by yourself.

No complaints about the organisation of the config changes. A few more (obvious) signs for pit entry and exit would have helped. The only thing I really didn’t like about the reverse 5 mile was that it wasn’t possible to see the flag station at 9C when coming up the hill from 3W until you were alongside it. That flag station needs to be higher if we run that config again.

Re: Thoughts on Thunderhill

therood wrote:
kornfeld wrote:

Have people complained about the 5 mile in the regular direction? Or is the thinking to just mix it up?

(I'm sure that people have complained about literally everything at one point or another haha--the 5 mile is just such an incredible one-of-a-kind track, that I'm curious why we wouldn't continue to make use of it.)

No real complaints about the "normal" 5-mile layout, but we figured that with a second Thunderhill date looming already, we should give everyone something a little different so it wasn't just the exact same thing twice in three months.

It worked out alright, but I would think any future single Thunderhill dates would be the 5-mile track.

(And yes, people have complained about virtually everything in the five years I've been full-time staff.)


Has there ever been consideration on running the 3-mile classic for a weekend? I personally enjoyed the 3-mile most out of the weekend.

Re: Thoughts on Thunderhill

Jake Umebayashi wrote:

Has there ever been consideration on running the 3-mile classic for a weekend? I personally enjoyed the 3-mile most out of the weekend.

The 3 mile classic direction is one of my favorites. If there is ever the need to run Thunderhill twice in one year again, one on the 5 and one on the 3 would be great. Or if it went 5 one year and 3 the next. It would be nice to have 3 classic on the schedule again.

I enjoyed all of it because it was fun to learn something new. The 5 mile opposite had nothing to do with 5 mile regular. It was a completely foreign track so it was fun to learn.

Re: Thoughts on Thunderhill

Jake Umebayashi wrote:
therood wrote:
kornfeld wrote:

Have people complained about the 5 mile in the regular direction? Or is the thinking to just mix it up?

(I'm sure that people have complained about literally everything at one point or another haha--the 5 mile is just such an incredible one-of-a-kind track, that I'm curious why we wouldn't continue to make use of it.)

No real complaints about the "normal" 5-mile layout, but we figured that with a second Thunderhill date looming already, we should give everyone something a little different so it wasn't just the exact same thing twice in three months.

It worked out alright, but I would think any future single Thunderhill dates would be the 5-mile track.

(And yes, people have complained about virtually everything in the five years I've been full-time staff.)


Has there ever been consideration on running the 3-mile classic for a weekend? I personally enjoyed the 3-mile most out of the weekend.

We ran two races a year at Thunderhill in 2016 and 2017, the May race on the 5-mile and a late-summer race on the 3-mile. The latter didn't really draw very well (probably still too hot and also close to Buttonwillow, which was in October) so we cut it for 2018.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

Re: Thoughts on Thunderhill

timburrman wrote:

The 5 mile reverse direction was awesome. If you ran an entire weekend that format, I would sign up in a heartbeat. The west side flows sooooo much better that direction. Ask the other racers, I would bet they say the same.

Personally, I felt like the west side was kind of a wash. I thought 8W and 9W flowed better in reverse. 7W reverse though, was quite possibly one of the least-flowing turns I've ever driven. 6W-3W worked in reverse, and they were interesting; but 3W-6W forward is possibly my favorite sequence of turns on the entire 5 mile.

I really like both connectors in both directions. They're fun challenges.

So in my opinion, some parts were better, some were worse (with 7W being a lot worse).

Re: Thoughts on Thunderhill

gus wrote:

To put it simply the 3 mile feels like a race while the 5 mile feels like a day-long trackday by yourself.

Man that is such a bummer to hear. At this past event, the 5 mile to me felt like a race; the 3 mile felt like a crowded race; and Sonoma feels like a race during rush-hour commute haha.

And from what I can remember, the 3 mile at Thunderhill feels just as crowded as sonoma when we have more than the (wonderful) 90 or so cars that we had this time around.

Re: Thoughts on Thunderhill

gus wrote:

To put it simply the 3 mile feels like a race while the 5 mile feels like a day-long trackday by yourself.

Agreed here, the 5 mile really spaced out the field. I had full laps with only seeing 2 to 3 cars a lap.

Re: Thoughts on Thunderhill

It also needs to be considered how few people came out.  Lucky dog was in Sonoma, so it's no surprise it drew low.  I thought both the 5 mile and the 3 mile were great.  If there was a normally showing, the 3 mile would feel crowded, imo.  A crowded track and an empty track each has its benefits.  I'd take an overly light field over an overly heavy field every time.  If you've been at Sonoma with 150 cars, you'd understand.  The amount of racing you lose out on due to yellow flags is substantial. 

I really enjoyed how the classic 3 mile flowed.  5 mi sat, 3 mi sun would be fun!

Re: Thoughts on Thunderhill

therood wrote:
kornfeld wrote:

Have people complained about the 5 mile in the regular direction? Or is the thinking to just mix it up?

(I'm sure that people have complained about literally everything at one point or another haha--the 5 mile is just such an incredible one-of-a-kind track, that I'm curious why we wouldn't continue to make use of it.)

No real complaints about the "normal" 5-mile layout, but we figured that with a second Thunderhill date looming already, we should give everyone something a little different so it wasn't just the exact same thing twice in three months.

It worked out alright, but I would think any future single Thunderhill dates would be the 5-mile track.

(And yes, people have complained about virtually everything in the five years I've been full-time staff.)

The track wasn’t crowded enough is my personal favorite.

Re: Thoughts on Thunderhill

therood wrote:

We ran two races a year at Thunderhill in 2016 and 2017, the May race on the 5-mile and a late-summer race on the 3-mile. The latter didn't really draw very well (probably still too hot and also close to Buttonwillow, which was in October) so we cut it for 2018.


Yeah, late summer or mid-summer or early summer Thunderhill is misery on a hot ass stick. I was at both of those and they were just rotten. I mean, I would have kept coming back to do them and gotten close to honking out each time, but, still, yuck. I remember Eyesore making it very clear they would have nothing to do with those races.

Re: Thoughts on Thunderhill

Bricoop wrote:

It also needs to be considered how few people came out.  Lucky dog was in Sonoma, so it's no surprise it drew low.  I thought both the 5 mile and the 3 mile were great.  If there was a normally showing, the 3 mile would feel crowded, imo.  A crowded track and an empty track each has its benefits.  I'd take an overly light field over an overly heavy field every time.  If you've been at Sonoma with 150 cars, you'd understand.  The amount of racing you lose out on due to yellow flags is substantial. 

I really enjoyed how the classic 3 mile flowed.  5 mi sat, 3 mi sun would be fun!


I've done the three mile with what is a usual to peak crowd for Thunderhill, 110-120. It really isn't that bad and nowhere near Sears Point. Lots of fun. 3 mile classic has one of the nicest flows of any track we do on the West Coast, for me. Nailing 6-7-8 up to 9 feels so good.

25 (edited by ukemike 2023-03-03 12:03 PM)

Re: Thoughts on Thunderhill

I was really not happy with the cyclone in reverse.  I don't like how it is completely blind, even more blind than forward.  I also wasn't super fond of the 11E complex of turns with the fast and rough entry and the lack of the exit curb.  I did really enjoy the infield section on the west, 10w, 9w, and 8w was fun. I've never done that forward and I think we should at least once.

I love the 5 mile course we usually do. It's epic and I love the mix of tight and technical west with the high speed flow of the east on every lap, super fun.  Since I've only raced wheel to wheel in Lemons and in CA I am used to really crowded tracks.  I really enjoy the more spread out racing on the 5 mile.  But the 3 mile classic that we ran sunday afternoon was also super fun.  I wouldn't be opposed to doing that one every few years.  Also I know that Lemons typically reserves track weekends based somewhat on cost and T-hill is cheap in the summer, but the green grass and the non-life-threatening temperatures were glorious.


I want to give huge thanks to every driver for so much green flag racing.  For me, that more than anything else made the weekend great!