Re: "old hillclimb car FREE!!!" - '78 Fiesta + Honda V-4 swap

Thanks for all the replies.

I'm using an ANSI 50 roller chain, which is major overkill. Still, interesting comment about chains overheating, should I put an oiler on it?

The input shaft in the chain drive is supported by bearings mounted to a steel box on both ends, so the force pulling the sprockets together is not translated to the engine bracket.

This weekend the welder is coming out.
https://i.imgur.com/S3WI6Xk.png

I also need to calibrate my torque wrench before putting the heads back on. Last night I felt some aluminum threads turn to cheese while re-assembling the alternator/starter gear assembly. Gonna just try and forget what my hands felt and move on.

Re: "old hillclimb car FREE!!!" - '78 Fiesta + Honda V-4 swap

largest-farva wrote:
cheseroo wrote:

A couple of things come to mind in this.




My current understanding, that fate has smiled upon us and everything is spinning in the right direction, is entirely based on an assumption that the car's transmission is not currently in reverse.

I should really check.


Just about spit coffee out all over the monitor.

Keep up the good work and you'll be down in the "epic builds" section

Silent But Deadly Racing-  Ricky Bobby's Laughing Clown Malt Liquor Thunderbird , Datsun 510, 87 Mustang (The Race Team Formerly Known as Prince), 72 Pinto Squire waggy, Parnelli Jones 67 Galaxie, Turbo Coupe Surf wagon.(The Surfin Bird), Squatting Dogs In Tracksuits,  Space Pants!  Roy Fuckin Kent and The tribute to a tribute to a tribute THUNDERBIRD/ SUNDAHBADOH!

Re: "old hillclimb car FREE!!!" - '78 Fiesta + Honda V-4 swap

largest-farva wrote:

Thanks for all the replies.

I'm using an ANSI 50 roller chain, which is major overkill. Still, interesting comment about chains overheating, should I put an oiler on it?

.

I would think that would just make a big ol mess.  I wonder if it's possible to direct airflow at it.  Seems like having the ability to point a heat gun at it after some laps would help to even see if it was an issue.  I believe it was either the MetroGnome (Alex Vendler) or the SakiBomb? (MR2/Kawasaki) folks that ran into the chain cooling issue.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

29 (edited by GnomeFabTech 2023-05-12 03:16 PM)

Re: "old hillclimb car FREE!!!" - '78 Fiesta + Honda V-4 swap

Oh hi. I heard my name called?

I've been around the block in a bike engined car and seen a few things. Maybe I can pitch a couple ideas.

Short chains are bad news. They overheat because of the aforementioned duty cycle issue causes too many FPS (flexes per second). They heat up, eject the grease under the o-rings, and then really get hot, loosing their hardness and failing in cool ways. Avoid. I made Geo Metro Gnome 1.0 (80 link chain) survive by having an oiling tube dump oil on the chain the whole race but it was indeed a mess. Is there a way that you can go straight from the bike coutershaft to the car trans input shaft? Make some sort of double ended splined adaptor and skip the chain? If you can't do that then use the largest sprockets you can to reduce the rotation of the individual chain links.

While it's intuitive to use a bigass chain it's a mistake unless it's really long because what governs duty cycle is the number of links not the length. 120 links was enough to have chains last more than a weekend on Geo Metro Gnome 2.0. We used a 530 Oring Chain and no oiler on GMG 2.0. Yes smaller chains are weaker so you'll need to stack them. But two 420 chains in parallel will last longer than a short 530. If you can't have over 100 links then go to smaller chain(s).

This calculation totally changes if you can submerge the chain in oil. From what I can see you have a chance at that and it would allow you to use fewer links plus a non oring chain like drag bikes use that are really strong. Properly oiled the chain will not wear at all after break in.

As for motorcycle clutches in a car application, we never had any issue with our CBR1000rr clutches and believe me we HAMMERED on those engines mercilessly for hours on end. Surprisingly the transmissions also survived horrifying abuse. 12k rpm clutchless shifts for literally days. The only time we ever lost engines where radiator failure causing overheating, and running one out of oil due to a leak.

While I am pretty out of the Lemons game I'm still a patron of the motorcycle engine powered arts.

Cars, cameras, and easy living...

Re: "old hillclimb car FREE!!!" - '78 Fiesta + Honda V-4 swap

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/4X4cWMqW3gk

Cars, cameras, and easy living...

Re: "old hillclimb car FREE!!!" - '78 Fiesta + Honda V-4 swap

Opened up engine #1 to see what was knocking. (and to steal a dowel pin for engine #2)

https://i.ibb.co/jgMRfxM/ezgif-4-d976f7ce75.gif

https://i.imgur.com/ur1pg8h.png

Then a cracked insulator to boot.
No wonder it didn't want to idle.

Thinking back to the seller's words, "The Honda shop said it was starting to tick so I stopped riding it, but it was just out on the highway no problem."  roll

32 (edited by largest-farva 2023-06-11 12:09 PM)

Re: "old hillclimb car FREE!!!" - '78 Fiesta + Honda V-4 swap

The nice thing about a moldy, rat infested, 45 year old racecar is that there's never any question about whether this or that part has to be pulled off and stripped down. Everything is dubious in some way, or at least moldy.

I've been slacking on posts here, so here's a month's worth of vehicular archaeology.

https://i.imgur.com/HIwrHYy.png

What's this about?
Probably nothing, moving on.


The brake fluid reservoir had a busted cap and was full of water.
https://i.imgur.com/c2zQcbK.png
Looks worse than it was, it's moving freely now. Maybe we got lucky.

https://i.imgur.com/sKo3yq8.png

The two motors got combined into one.

https://i.ibb.co/PMGTxBc/ezgif-1-0e2b25e25d.gif
If the heater fan wasn't seized I would have gotten a face full of spores as soon as I turned it on.
I'm getting a lot of use out of my respirator on this project.

Removing the dash of a Mk1 Fiesta feels like an exercise that should be part of automotive engineering school, because it only takes 5 minutes. Then removing the heater box, cluster, steering column, pedal box, and wire harness only takes another 15.

You don't need a shop manual for this thing because the removal procedure for every part is the same, unscrew two bolts, remove part.

The whole heater box is held together with two spring clips.
https://i.imgur.com/mEvvtmb.png

https://i.imgur.com/nrYpOmN.png

Good as new. I'll probably keep the heater core bypassed for the race. Those plastic fittings do not inspire confidence, especially if they're made out of the same stuff as the brake fluid reservoir.

Next up was wiring.
The harness was simple enough to beep out with a continuity tester. I'm still a little confused about the purpose of the push-pull direction of the blinker stalk, since the high beams are on the right stalk. Anyway...

The plan here is to stuff the branches of the harness related to the original ignition system into a coffee can or something and forget they exist. Then, terminate the wires for the cluster in the glove box where the ECU is with all the rest of the electrical hackery.

https://i.imgur.com/94Vhxr1.png

The e-stop solenoid and battery will be in the trunk.

https://i.imgur.com/SaP6Aje.png

I scavenged a quality e-stop and a bunch of nice switches from a discarded control panel.

The night we picked this thing up I took about 300 lbs of wet parts out of the trunk and heaped them into a storage shed to dry out. I'm still not sure what all is in that heap, but for the most part it contains parts for this car. I can usually dig through it and find one or more of what I'm looking for.

When I went digging for the radiator and cooling fan, I found this.
https://i.imgur.com/cS9vOm3.png

That explains the little rubber VAG part under the grille.
We'd like to complete the race, so the VW parts have to go.

Went back to the parts heap, and it provided the OEM part.
https://i.imgur.com/oI2rPKf.png
Just a little busted.

Both fan motors were seized up, so we fixed the original.

https://i.imgur.com/hp9ud53.png
By going back to the original radiator fan, the car regains +1 orangeness.

The brushes were in great shape, but the bearings were crusted.
Freed up the bearings, but I'll need to run it over night before the race to know for sure if they're happy.

https://i.imgur.com/Pzwjr53.png
New connector, for what it's worth.

Re: "old hillclimb car FREE!!!" - '78 Fiesta + Honda V-4 swap

Also got some work done on steering and brakes.

The steering rack had a tear in one of the boots, so it was filled with water. (sensing a theme here)
I didn't take a picture of the poo it left all over the floor when we took the boots off.
Took a good long time to get the steering rack cleaned out and re-greased.

https://i.imgur.com/19wUd7F.png

More parts that can't be left to chance.

https://i.imgur.com/ZyAUgyB.png

Cleaned off and re-greased. Just waiting on a couple parts before reassembling.
These calipers were probably made for a period BMW or Fiat. There weren't any Ford parts in DBA's catalog until the 90's Mustang.

If anyone knows where to get caliber rebuild kits for old DBA (Disk Brakes Australia) calipers, please holler.

All this that has nothing to do with putting the engine in the car. hmm

On that subject...

The working plan hit a snag when we started test-fitting with more parts in the picture. Clearance wasn't going to work. Thankfully we had only fabricated a couple small parts, so it wasn't that painful to go back to the drawing board.

The current strategy (which seems obvious in hindsight) is to just get get engine as close to the transmission as possible.

https://i.imgur.com/p3z6yM1.png

Clamping and shimming everything square in order to take the one measurement that would really suck to get wrong.

https://i.imgur.com/FIZewir.png
Hope this is right.

https://i.imgur.com/zVOTF2o.png

Re: "old hillclimb car FREE!!!" - '78 Fiesta + Honda V-4 swap

This is epic. Keep the updates rolling!

Full Ass Racing (Captain)
#455 Piñata Miata - 1990 Miata   |   #735 BMDollhÜr 7Turdy5i - 1990 735i (Sold)

Experienced race-loser, 1x winner

35 (edited by largest-farva 2023-07-03 03:41 PM)

Re: "old hillclimb car FREE!!!" - '78 Fiesta + Honda V-4 swap

Time for an update.

https://i.imgur.com/9TbDho1.png
Brakes are on.

https://i.imgur.com/eKXs7uG.png
Still missing some hardware.

https://i.imgur.com/fwIODG4.png
This thing holds the axle stub in place, it still needs some reinforcement.
Some of those welds need to be redone.
I am not good at welding.

https://i.imgur.com/miiijop.png
This shaft slips over the input shaft of the transmission.

https://i.imgur.com/01hww77.png
Sawing the bike's u-joint in half, preserving enough of the i.d. to center a stub.

https://i.imgur.com/8PnibSy.png
So this extends the engine's output shaft.

https://i.imgur.com/I9d2BZh.png
Something like this. I shoulda used gears... next time.

There's still plenty left to do to get that chain box enclosed and holding oil.

Hoping to have wheels on the ground by the end of July.

Re: "old hillclimb car FREE!!!" - '78 Fiesta + Honda V-4 swap

Side quest.

https://i.imgur.com/DY0djtu.png
The piece of industrial e-waste that the emergency stop was harvested from also had some nice push button switches.
Gotta use all the parts of the creature.

https://i.imgur.com/flb1nv1.png
Not sure if this will be working before the race, maybe.

The rack looking thing on the right slides into the car's glove box.


https://i.imgur.com/KjOOv3I.png
It's bona fide!

Re: "old hillclimb car FREE!!!" - '78 Fiesta + Honda V-4 swap

I had no idea how much time on this project would be spent on not being able to find a tool. Doing things in all weird orders on account of "Maybe in the course of X I will find my magnet stick and then I can continue Y which is way more pressing, alas."

In the meantime, ordered a cage from RCC, bought new single-piece safety chairs and a fire system.
https://i.imgur.com/g59Z24m.png
These chairs are safer than what I was going to use, which Pagel informed me were "buggy seats."

Safety was at the expense of orangeness, though.
https://i.imgur.com/clVW84n.png


The engine spins the wheels when turned by hand, and vise versa. Nothing binding or scraping, but I'm kind of terrified about what this all looks like spinning at 8K rpm. The chain is very short, but the chain box is oil tight.  Had to go to the steel yard to get some beefier scraps to make the chain box out of.
https://i.imgur.com/G4WGX2B.png
*gulp*

At least the chain easy to change, and since it's short I can make a lot of them from the one 8ft section I have.

Put in a NOS Bendix brake master cylinder, brakes are done. (in theory)

https://i.imgur.com/eb7qmoL.png

Re: "old hillclimb car FREE!!!" - '78 Fiesta + Honda V-4 swap

https://i.imgur.com/tYhs4Ci.mp4

Re: "old hillclimb car FREE!!!" - '78 Fiesta + Honda V-4 swap

Damn. This thing is sick.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

Re: "old hillclimb car FREE!!!" - '78 Fiesta + Honda V-4 swap

Engine is in, that's the final fit, and it's gonna have a shaker hood. Sweet.

https://i.imgur.com/vxdOpbs.png
https://i.imgur.com/Gora98R.png

Re: "old hillclimb car FREE!!!" - '78 Fiesta + Honda V-4 swap

i'm so excited to see this thing IRL. think you're going to make it to the ridge in october?

BSOD Racing, 1987 Fiat X1/9

Re: "old hillclimb car FREE!!!" - '78 Fiesta + Honda V-4 swap

rozap_ wrote:

i'm so excited to see this thing IRL. think you're going to make it to the ridge in october?

That is the plan.
There's a lot of work left to do and a lot that could go wrong, but I'm determined.
The cage from RCC should arrive in the next two weeks.

In progress:
* Hooking up throttle and clutch.
* Transmogrifying the exhaust headers with caveman tools and a stick welder.
* Reinforcements.

Impending headaches:
* Fiesta radiator, he no fit. The bike's radiator fits, but our budget kind of depends on being able to sell that part. 
* Fuel system.

Re: "old hillclimb car FREE!!!" - '78 Fiesta + Honda V-4 swap

largest-farva wrote:
rozap_ wrote:

i'm so excited to see this thing IRL. think you're going to make it to the ridge in october?

That is the plan.
There's a lot of work left to do and a lot that could go wrong, but I'm determined.
The cage from RCC should arrive in the next two weeks.

In progress:
* Hooking up throttle and clutch.
* Transmogrifying the exhaust headers with caveman tools and a stick welder.
* Reinforcements.

Impending headaches:
* Fiesta radiator, he no fit. The bike's radiator fits, but our budget kind of depends on being able to sell that part. 
* Fuel system.

There's always the exo-radiator

https://www.murileemartin.com/UG/LIL12/031-LIL12-UG.jpg

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

Re: "old hillclimb car FREE!!!" - '78 Fiesta + Honda V-4 swap

https://i.imgur.com/YzvhSd3.png
In it goes.


https://i.imgur.com/gc894j3.png
It fits!

https://i.imgur.com/CCKV2MH.png
Spared no expense.

Hoping the roll cage gets here soon.

Re: "old hillclimb car FREE!!!" - '78 Fiesta + Honda V-4 swap

This was the only way to bleed the air out of the clutch without pulling the engine out, because honda skipped the bleeder valve and because the slave cylinder is now buried. Got some of the air, not all of it. Engine has to come out again.

https://i.imgur.com/XSob5LH.png

Otherwise, it's holding coolant and oil, the shifter is hooked up, throttle is rigged, and all the suspension is attached.

http://www.sndup.net/p678  (firststart.mp3)

Today I hack-sawed the exhaust off a prius (legally), for its 1-1/2" pipe and muffler.
The speeduino still needs to be tuned but it seems to work good.

Re: "old hillclimb car FREE!!!" - '78 Fiesta + Honda V-4 swap

largest-farva wrote:

Hoping the roll cage gets here soon.

looks like we both ordered from RCC about the same time. I'm getting antsy. Nice build!

"THE WONDERMENT CONSORTIUM"
Everything dies baby that's a fact,
But maybe everything that dies someday comes back?

Re: "old hillclimb car FREE!!!" - '78 Fiesta + Honda V-4 swap

derekste wrote:

looks like we both ordered from RCC about the same time. I'm getting antsy.

Waiting a couple days before calling to pester him again, but yeah.


In the meantime, wired up the estop.
https://i.imgur.com/EDk9Duu.png
https://i.imgur.com/gUntd6k.png
https://i.imgur.com/q4KW3dH.png

Holding the green button energizes the contactor (unless the e-stop has been pressed).
If the ignition is on, it latches.
The diode between nodes (1) and (4) is so that pressing start with they key out does not send power to the accessory circuit.
Video testing it out: https://i.imgur.com/UouIgha.mp4

Still need to:
- Rubber grommet for starter cable where it goes through the body.
- Covers for all hot terminals. (I'm considering a peanut butter jar to go around the contactor) 
- Battery strap, cable attachment (after cage is in)
- Add a flyback diode across the contactor coil.
- Labeling.

Re: "old hillclimb car FREE!!!" - '78 Fiesta + Honda V-4 swap

https://i.imgur.com/nPPAczc.png
https://i.imgur.com/AxOUcUG.png

This is the state of my driveway.

I live on a low traffic side street, but I swear someone must have shared my location on HooptyAssCarsOfEverett or somesuch because there was a parade of rubberneckin car doodz going by all afternoon.

Some areas of progress:

We figured out the clutch issue, it just had some initial-assembly stiffness.

https://i.imgur.com/ejTJGTh.png
Welded up the 2-into-1 section of the exhaust headers (Got to the last segment and ran out of fancy stainless rods, so it goes)

https://i.imgur.com/djtQko3.png
Found my magnet on a stick.

https://i.imgur.com/yBL7dga.png
Not going to spoil any theme stuff in this thread, but here's one rejected concept that sadly violated the rules.

Re: "old hillclimb car FREE!!!" - '78 Fiesta + Honda V-4 swap

Hooo boy, hopefully rcc sends that stuff soon. it's gonna be down to the wire. If you get to the final days and need help thrashing on the car I'm in the Olympia area.

BSOD Racing, 1987 Fiat X1/9

50 (edited by largest-farva 2023-08-27 04:23 PM)

Re: "old hillclimb car FREE!!!" - '78 Fiesta + Honda V-4 swap

RCC says the cage is on the loading dock waiting for pickup, so maybe it gets here this week. That being said, the cage is not the only thing threatening the schedule, the rest of the car is too. Inter-species vehicular reanimation is hard.

I told Mr. Pagel I would send some pictures, some pre-inspection inspection to increase our chances of passing tech with this monstrosity. But there isn't a single thing to call done and ready for comment. That does not bode well for racing in (checks calendar) six weeks.

_rozap that is a very kind offer I will probably be taking you up on if we get the cage and are still committed to the October race.

We've been in "any day now it'll move" mode for a couple weeks.

Attempt #1 to drive it: Air in the clutch line, engine out.

Attempt #2 to drive it: Accidentally left bike in neutral, shifter totally inaccessible.

Attempt #3 to drive it: Bike in 1st, lots of noise to move at 2mph, but we had since added the ability to shift the bike without removing the engine! So 5 minutes later...

Attempt #4 to drive it. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ … /lemon.mp4