Topic: NC Miata auto trans? Enduro reliability

I've already got two somewhat-janky-but-reliable Lemons cars, but my mind never stops wandering... Manual NC2/3 (forged engine internals, higher redline) aren't cheap, but there's plenty of auto NC1/2 available for cheap.

Anyone run the NC Miata with the 6spd auto trans in endurance race? Looking to introduce additional drivers to the sport of endurance racing, and looking to remove one part of the equation (manual shifting / driver error). And who knows, maybe we'll actually turn faster laps.

Obviously, large trans cooler is a must, and possibly torque converter or valve body upgrades might be in order too.

Re: NC Miata auto trans? Enduro reliability

Consider that when you're going around a corner and the auto gets confused and randomly downshifts, there's always a chance that driver's going to spin out as well. Automatic doesn't necessarily make things easier. Frustrated drivers may pedal mash to force a downshift and redline the engine (leading to more engine wear).

Most teams that run an auto successfully have ones with tall gears and less of them (EG: 3 speeds).

No idea what's available or reliable for a miata. I'd imagine 99% of the Lemons teams with one run stick.

I would say just go with the big cooler, do a race, see if it breaks, rinse and repeat.

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Re: NC Miata auto trans? Enduro reliability

KeiCarMike wrote:

Consider that when you're going around a corner and the auto gets confused and randomly downshifts, there's always a chance that driver's going to spin out as well. Automatic doesn't necessarily make things easier. Frustrated drivers may pedal mash to force a downshift and redline the engine (leading to more engine wear).

Most teams that run an auto successfully have ones with tall gears and less of them (EG: 3 speeds).

No idea what's available or reliable for a miata. I'd imagine 99% of the Lemons teams with one run stick.

I would say just go with the big cooler, do a race, see if it breaks, rinse and repeat.

I haven't seen more than 1 or 2 automatic Miatas ever in Lemons, doesn't really mean anything. I think the NC that runs with Stan (in Bham) is one of the few auto Miatas we've ever had, but I might be imagining that. It ran flawlessly for at least one full race if so and the transmission wasn't what sidelined it at Road Atlanta, I don't think.

That said, I would echo Mike's last line: Add a cooler and don't mess with anything inside the transmission until you know how it behaves. I think conventional wisdom would be: "Don't introduce any more variables than you absolutely have to" and "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

Re: NC Miata auto trans? Enduro reliability

therood wrote:

Add a cooler and don't mess with anything inside the transmission until you know how it behaves. I think conventional wisdom would be: "Don't introduce any more variables than you absolutely have to" and "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Huh. I assumed your advice would be to find some method of adding a turbocharger.

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5 (edited by chaase 2023-05-16 02:28 PM)

Re: NC Miata auto trans? Enduro reliability

mharrell wrote:
therood wrote:

Add a cooler and don't mess with anything inside the transmission until you know how it behaves. I think conventional wisdom would be: "Don't introduce any more variables than you absolutely have to" and "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Huh. I assumed your advice would be to find some method of adding a turbocharger.

That's assumed

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6 (edited by Stan in Bham 2023-05-16 02:15 PM)

Re: NC Miata auto trans? Enduro reliability

No, our team's Miata is a manual.  And we have fried the clutch in 2 of our last 4 races, including Atlanta and at NOLA where we were running 9th overall/8th in A Class with about 90 minutes to go on Sunday until the "brand new, just installed the weekend before the race" clutch died a sudden and tragic death.  The moral to that story is don't buy your spare clutches from random vendors on certain unmentioned Lemons sponsor's websites.  Look for name brand clutches from reputable shops (on that same sponsor's website).  South Bend clutches for us from here on out.

Re: NC Miata auto trans? Enduro reliability

Stan in Bham wrote:

No, our team's Miata is a manual.  And we have fried the clutch in 2 of our last 4 races, including Atlanta and at NOLA where we were running 9th overall/8th in A Class with about 90 minutes to go on Sunday until the "brand new, just installed the weekend before the race" clutch died a sudden and tragic death.  The moral to that story is don't buy your spare clutches from random vendors on certain unmentioned Lemons sponsor's websites.  Look for name brand clutches from reputable shops (on that same sponsor's website).  South Bend clutches for us from here on out.

Dang, my memory is slipping like a (sponsor website) clutch.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

Re: NC Miata auto trans? Enduro reliability

Go for it!  Removing having to think about the transmission and coordinate your hand with your foot with your other foot with the other half of your other foot while yet another damned 3-series just can't wait to get around you when you're trying to remember what rpm you need to be at for 23.7mph in 2nd gear is a big help for getting started and getting comfortable driving on track.  I am admittedly very lazy, and almost all of my races have been in automatics, and, even with the shiftable ones, its nice to not have to worry about the coordination and the timing and getting the rev match just right so you don't have to upset the chassis, etc. 

The internet tells me that people rarely have problems with that transmission, even in boosted applications, and that it's an Aisin unit that's spec'd for a whole lot more power than the little 2.0 can put out, and is shared with some RWD Lexus vehicles with the smaller V6.  I can't imagine it being problematic - as others have said, get the largest (height, width, and especially depth) cooler that you can find, get some sort of large gauge for it (the Buick pulls this info from the computer, and starts flashing bright red if it gets over a certain temperature), and you're good to go.  Even if it does get too hot, you have the benefit of shiftability, so, theoretically, you can just lock it in 4th and turn some laps until it cools back down - but, if you put a good, oversized cooler on it, I highly doubt you'd have temperature issues.

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