• From: Central NC
  • Registered: 2009-05-05
  • Posts: 1,681

Re: Problems with going too slow?

Troy wrote:

Use Point Bys!!!

People were giving point bys at NPR and it was great.  I pointed a guy by and didn't see the car behind him too.  That almost got messy, oops. 

Like others have said, your driving experiece seems pretty typical. 

Show up, have fun, play nice and everyone will have a great weekend.

I had several points given at CMP. The first time I saw one I thought.. Hey, there is a HPDE student. Nice job! smile I gave them a pleasant "thank you" wave on the way around and kept going.

I agree 100% with the others saying to stay on line and let the overtaking car figure out how to pass you. You show respect for the others on the track by being consistent. Do that and no one will be upset if you are slow.

27 Reply by VKZ24 (edited by VKZ24 2009-06-23 12:21 PM)

  • VKZ24
  • VKZ24
  • Lemons Staff Stalker
  • Offline
  • From: Wilson, NC
  • Registered: 2009-05-20
  • Posts: 1,839

Re: Problems with going too slow?

BoB wrote:

The LTD at Lemons south I showed that if you keep out of everyones way everyone is ok that you are going slow.  THey stayed on their line and kept driving.

I'll say they (LTD team) stayed on thier line MOST of the time and we had no real issue with them.  However I do have video of them forcing me to put two wheels off and pass them on the right of the front straight at CMP.  They may not have seen me, and it may have been unintentional for all I know, so it was no big deal.

All of our team had HPDE experience which is a HUGE benefit.  The fact you are going too slow isn't the issue with hardly any other racer that I know.  The issue is you not knowing what the sam-hell you are doing...like what the flags mean, safety protocol, hand signals etc.  If you've attended an HDPE they teach all that stuff, and if not you can read about it via the internet.  IOW, get a clue before you get on the track for the first time.

There are some unwritten rules as well that your fellow racers (with experience) expect from you.  Some just call them 'gentlemen's rules' or common courtesy on the track.  if you don't know (or choose to ignore) any of them and drive like ass you may be the one to meet the crusher.  Your lack of speed won't have anything to do with it.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

VKZ24's Website

  • VKZ24
  • VKZ24
  • Lemons Staff Stalker
  • Offline
  • From: Wilson, NC
  • Registered: 2009-05-20
  • Posts: 1,839

Re: Problems with going too slow?

TrackGeeks wrote:

I had several points given at CMP. The first time I saw one I thought.. Hey, there is a HPDE student. Nice job! smile I gave them a pleasant "thank you" wave on the way around and kept going.

Ditto.  It's was very easy to tell who had been on a track before regardless of their speed.  My ass was saved from a back flag more than once when the driver ahead of me saw the yellow first and gave the quick wave motion inside the car to alert the cars behind him.  I did the same and most drivers responded appropriately...except the ones that didn't know what that meant and passed me instead.

Read, ask lots of questions, attend an HPDE, or whatever but please be informed before you take to the track.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

VKZ24's Website

  • From: Houston, TX
  • Registered: 2009-06-10
  • Posts: 27

Re: Problems with going too slow?

VKZ24 wrote:

The issue is you not knowing what the sam-hell you are doing...like what the flags mean, safety protocol, hand signals etc.  If you've attended an HDPE they teach all that stuff, and if not you can read about it via the internet.  IOW, get a clue before you get on the track for the first time.

How about some help with that clue-getting? "The internet" is an awful big place.

  • VKZ24
  • VKZ24
  • Lemons Staff Stalker
  • Offline
  • From: Wilson, NC
  • Registered: 2009-05-20
  • Posts: 1,839

Re: Problems with going too slow?

JoeGekko wrote:
VKZ24 wrote:

The issue is you not knowing what the sam-hell you are doing...like what the flags mean, safety protocol, hand signals etc.  If you've attended an HDPE they teach all that stuff, and if not you can read about it via the internet.  IOW, get a clue before you get on the track for the first time.

How about some help with that clue-getting? "The internet" is an awful big place.

Here is a start...

http://www.hpdedriver.com/guide_flags.htm

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

VKZ24's Website

  • RobL
  • RobL
  • Lemons Staff Stalker
  • Offline
  • From: Philly area
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 2,721

Re: Problems with going too slow?

Flags:
http://www.texasscca.org/race_flags.html

Flags and hand signals:
http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/ccr.pdf
(lol @ Displaying the middle finger to another driver will be considered unsportsmanlike conduct; displaying the middle finger to an Official is not smart and not recommended.)

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

RobL's Website

32 Reply by TeamDFL (edited by TeamDFL 2009-06-23 12:58 PM)

  • From: Craphole, NJ
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 517

Re: Problems with going too slow?

VKZ24 wrote:

Here is a start...

http://www.hpdedriver.com/guide_flags.htm

From that link

"RED - Emergency
Check your mirrors and slow to a stop to the inside of the track, preferably near a corner worker."


A red flag means check your mirrors FIRST.  Do NOT stab the brakes.  Assume that the cars behind you did not see the red flag.  If you were in immediate danger, you would have seen the yellow flag.  Slow to a 5mph creep at the edge of the pavement and roll up to a flag station then stop.  As you approach the flagger, acknowledge the red flag with a wave or a fist in the air. Ideally, you will stop in a place where cars coming up fast from behind can see you.  Do not move and stay in the car until the flagger signals you.

http://www.ducttapemotorsports.com/
http://www.teamdfl.com
"I can see it now, a pile of nickels and all the glory of being a real race car driver."
Prepping the Red wReck for the 24 Hours of Lemons

TeamDFL's Website

  • From: Houston, TX
  • Registered: 2009-06-10
  • Posts: 27

Re: Problems with going too slow?

RobL wrote:

Displaying the middle finger to another driver will be considered unsportsmanlike conduct

I always thought of it as constructive criticism; eg, "your driving needs improvement."

  • fabtoys
  • Lemons Staff Stalker
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 1,845

Re: Problems with going too slow?

JoeGekko wrote:
RobL wrote:

Displaying the middle finger to another driver will be considered unsportsmanlike conduct

I always thought of it as constructive criticism; eg, "your driving needs improvement."

I always thought it was unsportsmanlike CONTACT that caused the Middle finger!

Pit Crew Revenge Racing   Rolling chicanelimo,95Lamdspeeder,Gimp Pimp Cadi,300zx Car show kaboom!! 90 Wagovan, mazda v8 Lemons LOGO TATTOO!  Aces 84 Cadi Eldo Briattz I O E WINNER
Class C win with LemonOdy Cannonball Run Whambulance !EX K Captain
Lemons Trophy Truck ShaGuar Baby!
  • decafe
  • Ripened Lemon
  • Offline
  • From: deptford nj
  • Registered: 2009-06-08
  • Posts: 232

Re: Problems with going too slow?

we had one  of our new drivers do one lap and pitted because an idiot light was on. they have probable been on the  last five years.  i thought some one was going to hurt him

  • Spank
  • Utter Madman
  • Offline
  • From: Escondido, CA
  • Registered: 2009-06-10
  • Posts: 5,863

Re: Problems with going too slow?

fabtoys wrote:

I'm the snail of our crew!
Don't be surprised if your inner animal will come out on the track .

What car are you driving/building?

I guess the bangars and mash are out of the bag now  smile

http://jalopnik.com/5317486/austin-mini … istrionics

--Spank

Spank's Website

  • From: Automation Alley
  • Registered: 2009-07-14
  • Posts: 206

Re: Problems with going too slow?

I was in the Corvair at New England. We were going the same speed, green or yellow. We stuck to our line, and made sure there was room to pass on the straights.  Not only did we come out clean, no one hated us. That's the way to do it!

Captainess: #88 Scirocket Racing - Did someone say Pikachu?

atomicalex's Website

  • From: Emeryville CA
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 572

Re: Problems with going too slow?

JoeGekko wrote:
VKZ24 wrote:

The issue is you not knowing what the sam-hell you are doing...like what the flags mean, safety protocol, hand signals etc.  If you've attended an HDPE they teach all that stuff, and if not you can read about it via the internet.  IOW, get a clue before you get on the track for the first time.

How about some help with that clue-getting? "The internet" is an awful big place.

Though we're pretty close to "normal" road-racing flags at this point, we usually simplify things a bit to make the learning curve easier. (Disclaimer--depending on the track and who we use for corner workers, the flag protocol can vary slightly from track to track). All flags are discussed at the driver meeting.

Even before you get to the flags, the most important thing to remember is to communicate with the corner workers and your fellow racers. It's easy to get tunnel vision on the track, and forget that both corner workers and other racers can see you inside your car. If you see a yellow, wave--the drivers behind you can see it. If you've got a problem or are pulling into the pits, stick a hand up. If the corner workers are black-flagging you, wave an acknowledgment. If you want to let a faster car by, point to where you want them to go and steer your car out of the way.

Of course, there will be situations where you're just racing with someone--while you are free to race hard and not give up a spot, be aware of being over-aggressive or over-defensive. Also, if you're making a pass or being passed, don't force the issue--if you've been beaten to a spot or vice versa, you can simultaneously hold your ground while giving the other guy room.

Bottom line, you can be aggressive and courteous at the same time.

Nick_LemonsHQ's Website

39 Reply by RobL (edited by RobL 2009-07-21 11:25 AM)

  • RobL
  • RobL
  • Lemons Staff Stalker
  • Offline
  • From: Philly area
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 2,721

Re: Problems with going too slow?

atomicalex wrote:

I was in the Corvair at New England. We were going the same speed, green or yellow. We stuck to our line, and made sure there was room to pass on the straights.  Not only did we come out clean, no one hated us. That's the way to do it!

You guys were very predictable.  See Nick's post above.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

RobL's Website

  • From: Automation Alley
  • Registered: 2009-07-14
  • Posts: 206

Re: Problems with going too slow?

RobL wrote:

You guys were very predictable.  See Nick's post above.

Uh, thanks? wink tongue

Captainess: #88 Scirocket Racing - Did someone say Pikachu?

atomicalex's Website

  • Registered: 2009-05-22
  • Posts: 30

Re: Problems with going too slow?

professional.dreamer wrote:

Having a slower car maintain and drive a standard, consistent line is, by far, the most important factor for an overtaking car to pass safely.  Pointing is good, too -- however, that means you're expecting the driver of the slower car would be using his/her mirrors, which is something Newbies are not prone to do.  Hell, even most Lemons veterans don't do it.  Drivers have a tendancy to focus so much on where they're going and the racing line that they completely forget about mirrors until they hit some straightaway... where it really doesn't matter much because the more powerful cars are going to blow-by them before they figure out who's behind them.  It takes practice and training to be able to drive corners with one eye looking forward and one eye looking back.  Eventually, good (and fast) drivers refer to their mirrors throughout the corner to drive a defensive line against the cars behind them.

Give the Newbs some time and they'll get it ... but PLEASE stay on the driving line!

John

That is all good info, but went out the window the last T-Hill race 1/2 into lap #1 when the asshats tried to pass everyone trying to flow through the chicane in the turn ~7-8 area?...  Seriously bummed me out---

Choice #1 - Hold my line, get plowed by asshat #1 & #2 (as there were two of them doing it), ruin the car before my first completed lap, and/or get a black flag for contact

or

Choice #2 - cautiously give way, and go around the tires via the grass-- stop, let the complete field go by, then proceed when safe and resume racing.

I chose #2-- then got black flagged, removed from the car, and my day was done from there.


I was at Reno, and it appeared much more civil, and an amazing track.  I can see that Buttonwillow may be very similar to T-hill in certain areas--- still trying to detemine the best way to handle the first few laps-- hopefully more like Reno, and not T-hill.  Please, no tire barriers/chicanes that bunch people up!!

Like any race, things happen, hopefully people will realize the race is 14+ hrs long and not a drag race during the first couple of laps, so that people can sort the track out and drive within their limits, and not use others as berms.