Refueling regs. (Page 1 of 2)

Most of the re-fueling regs are set by the track, and not the Lemons crew.  What track are you asking about?

I know at Reno, it's pretty much fair game to fuel anywhere in the pits (no hot pits).  At Thill, we have to re-fuel at the concrete pad where their fuel tanks are.

As far as regulations go for who can fuel your car?  Anyone, you just have to make sure the man with the can has FULL safety gear on (helmet, suit, gloves, shoes).  You also have to have someone next to the man with the can, holding a fire extinguisher.

last year at stafford they had an area in the pits away from where the teams were set up that was the designated fueling area.  other than that, the only rule was you couldn't change drivers while fueling, so you had to stop at your pit and then go to fuel, or vice versa. 

and the full safety gear as previously mentioned

at all west coast events so far, yes

Bonus question: Could someone please clarify "no hot pits"? I was assuming it meant no electricity was available, but now I get the feeling there's more to it.

Thanks

Hot Pits are awesome. I wish all the tracks would be a go on this! Plus it makes it a little more fair to everyone since no one get stuck pitting far away from the pit entrance and have to deal with a bunch of traffic in the paddock.

Any word on how fueling will be at Buttonwillow?

BTW one thing that should be obvious but maybe isn't is that fuel is a bad thing to spill on your driver's suit as it compromise the fire-proofness. Best be real careful not to spill anything while fueling or better yet have an old suit for the fueler to wear. From the SFI web site (http://www.sfifoundation.com/driversuit.html):

Avoid wearing your suit while working on the car. Not only would you be ruining an expensive piece of equipment, but you would essentially be inviting a fire to burn you. Grease, fuel, oil, and even cleaning fluids can soak into the fabric and support the flames of a fire, causing high heat. Fluids soaked into a suit also produce steam when exposed to heat and cause liquid vaporization burns.

Yes, you need someone holding the extinguisher at Stafford.  And yes, he should be suited. 

we use a different extinguisher for refuling rather than the one in the car, but i don't see how the car one would be a problem.

This type of stuff irritates me, and if Jay and Co. do in fact read the surveys they send out, they have heard it from me before.

Yes, the re-fueling rules are generally governed by the track.  With that said, I'm pretty darn sure the track can tell Jay and Co. this AHEAD OF TIME so it can be published AHEAD OF TIME so the teams can have their game plan/equipment ready AHEAD OF TIME.

Why the rant?  Well for one this was something that almost cost us the race this spring at CMP.  Here is how it all went down...

At the drivers meeting on Sunday morning the fueling rules were announced by CMP's track official.  Fueling was to be done in the hot pits only and spill pans would be provided.  Any fuel spilled on the pavement would result in a penalty. Also the gas man has to wear a helmet and full nomex.   OK...we understand, gotcha.  As the meeting was about to disband, someone yells out 'Does the rest of the crew have to wear full nomex'?  Jay and the track official discuss this for a minute and then say 'yes'.  Well damn....it's 90+ degress and now all of us need to sweat our asses off I guess.  Of course in the interest of safety I conceed this was/is a good idea.  My pet peeve is do the organizers really want us to believe that this safety aspect cannot be decided AHEAD OF TIME and therefore written in the PUBLISHED rules so all the team will be prepared?  OK, so you say what's the big deal we all have suits so just go and put them on right?  What about the gross people that share a suit?  It would be nice for those guys to know this stuff AHEAD OF TIME so they would be prepared.

Our whole team had nomex so why am I whining right?  Well keep reading.  Around the 2.5 hour mark it's time for our first driver change and re-fueling stop.  All of us don our nomex and the gas man has his helmet in addition so we are all good right?  Well it just so happens we run into another team (friends of ours) who see us pulling our 'little red wagon' with the gas cans to the hot pits.  He stops us and says 'BTW, you do know the gas man has to have either a shield for his helmet or goggles right'?  Umm...WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!??????  I'm sure many of you like myself who drive a car with a windshield have removed the helmet shield and tossed in a closet.  Three of our team members had done just that so depending on which one was in the car, the gas man would not have the proper equipment and we wouldn't be allowed to re-fuel without it.  Needing a shield or goggles was NOT discussed at the drivers meeting.  Luckily another team pitted near ours offered us a helmet with a shield so we didn't get hosed.

My point is I'm not a fan of deciding safety rules on the spot when clearly they can be decided and published AHEAD OF TIME.  Tell me the rules and we will obey them or pay the penalty for not doing so when they are clearly written AHEAD OF TIME.

Read again.  I didn't say I didn't agree with the rule.  I said I didn't agree with not being told we were REQUIRED to have one to refuel AHEAD OF TIME.  FYI, more than one team was not allowed to re-fuel because they didn't have a visor or goggles, so I guess I'm not the only one that didn't know.

Like I said...the rules are rules...we get it, but just tell us what they are AHEAD OF TIME and BEFORE the event so we will all be prepared.  Rules, especially safety related ones, should not have to be made up on the spot.

Maybe this technique would work:

>>>dialing phone to CMP

CMP: Hello.

Jay: What are the re-fueling rules at your facility during a race?

CMP: Gas man must have full nomex gear, helmet with visor or use goggles, gloves, shoes.  Fueling is to be done only in the hot pits.  All crew members 'over the wall' must have full nomex gear.

Jay: Thanks!  I'll put that in the rules online so all the teams will know.

CMP: You're welcome.  See you soon!

was thinking more of common sense than rules.  it is nice to know all the rules though

<scratching head>  Why would anyone buy a full faced helmet and intentionally remove the visor?

A lot of us do HPDE events and in a car with a windshield all the visor does is make the helmet even hotter.